20 rounders anyone?

yardmaster · 02-23-2008, 07:42 PM

I'm a fan of the 1900-1920 era-Jack Johnson, Harry Greb, Mike Gibbons, Battling Levinsky, et al-in which they sometimes fought 20+ rounders.

I occasionally simulate a 20 rounder by scheduling a 12 and an 8 round bout between the same two fighters. If the fight hasn't ended after 12 rounds, I carry over the scoring totals to the 8 rounder, and if that bout goes the distance I total the score, editing the result to reflect W, L, or D20. The only problem I've run into is you can't carry over the damage a fighter has suffered. I represent this abstractly by increasing the fighter's absorb punishment and/or cut rating in the "second stage."

I'm curious if anyone else has experimented with this.

John

Mr Big · 02-23-2008, 08:21 PM

No, haven't tried this, but just curious why you chose the 12+8 format. Why not 15 and 5, or 10-10?

Syd Thrift · 02-24-2008, 01:06 AM

For that matter, unlimited rounds would be cool for simulating turn of the century boxing.

JohntheHammerHeyes · 02-24-2008, 09:27 AM

I think 20 rounds has been asked for before as an inclusion in the game but apparently it would take quite a lot of work to get it in there. Not sure, could be wrong mind.

Thunder · 02-24-2008, 10:16 AM

I would love to see a 75-round scorecard

Judge Chuck Giampa scores it 718-699 . . . .

Cap · 02-24-2008, 10:50 AM

Andreas said something like it would require a major re-jigging of the engine to allow 20 rounders, never mind London Prize Ring Rules or even 45 rounders or finish fights.

Can't imagine staying awake through 45 rounds of John Ruiz hugging some stumblebum.

Cap

P.S. May be my imagination, but ever since they stopped 15 rounders, there seem to be way more 12 round fights than 15s and 12s together in the olden days.

yardmaster · 02-24-2008, 11:40 AM

In response to the question why 12+8, and not 10+10 or 10+12, no reason. They probably would work as well.

Re the technical limitations of including 20+ rounders in the game, I am not savvy enough to know how difficult that woud be, but there probably would not be a enough interest in going to that trouble. Even during that era, 20 rounders were not common. I throw it in only occasionally for historical accuracy and to see what would happen versus 6-15 rounders.
By the way, 20 round bouts were held later than you think. Max Baer fought a couple of 20 rounders in the 1930s, and Joe Louis' title fight with Abe Simon which ended in the 13th was scheduled for 20 rounds.

In terms of more 12 rounders these days since the end of the 15 round era, I think that is more a function of the proliferation of titles now with the alphabet soup of rival boxing organizations.

Finally, you might have guessed that I'm a purist who thinks title fights should go 15 rounds. They were stopped supposedly for "safety reasons," but I read recently that the shorter 12 round title fights were actually more compatible with TV schedules.

John

JohntheHammerHeyes · 02-24-2008, 01:32 PM

Re: 15 v 12 rounds, that's exactly it. A 12 round fight lasts 47 minutes if it goes the distance (there are 11 one minute breaks obviously) which fits quite nicely into a one hour slot. A 15 round fight lasts 59 minutes if it goes the distance, not quite what TV networks are looking for. Ironically the first WBC title fight after they brought the 12 round rule in, ended up with one fighter (Bejines) dying after being knocked out in the 12th and last round.

Syd Thrift · 02-24-2008, 02:26 PM

They may be more compatible with TV schedules as well but boxing as a whole went to 12 rounds as a direct result of the Deuk Koo Kim death.

JohntheHammerHeyes · 02-24-2008, 04:16 PM

When the WBC did go to 12 rounds the first fight under the new distance was Albert Davila v Kiko Bejines which ended in a 12th round KO for Davila and Bejines tragically died 3 days later. I remember Ring magazine at the time asking what would the WBC do now, reduce title fights to 11 rounds? The WBA, the sanctioning body whose title Mancini and Kim were fighting for, did not reduce their title distance until some years later (1987?). Certainly in 1986 their title fights were still for 15 rounds because I remember Witherspoon - Bruno was scheduled for 15. I remember reading an article at the time in which either the IBF or the WBA (both of whom still had 15 round title fights) were complaining that their fights weren't on network TV as much as the WBC and the time factor was mentioned. Could be rubbish though.
If my memory serves the IBF were the last to switch to 12 rounders and the last 15 rounds title fight involved Jorge Paez.

02-23-2008, 07:42 PM	#1
yardmaster Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 29	20 rounders anyone? I'm a fan of the 1900-1920 era-Jack Johnson, Harry Greb, Mike Gibbons, Battling Levinsky, et al-in which they sometimes fought 20+ rounders. I occasionally simulate a 20 rounder by scheduling a 12 and an 8 round bout between the same two fighters. If the fight hasn't ended after 12 rounds, I carry over the scoring totals to the 8 rounder, and if that bout goes the distance I total the score, editing the result to reflect W, L, or D20. The only problem I've run into is you can't carry over the damage a fighter has suffered. I represent this abstractly by increasing the fighter's absorb punishment and/or cut rating in the "second stage." I'm curious if anyone else has experimented with this. John

02-23-2008, 08:21 PM	#2
Mr Big All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,238	No, haven't tried this, but just curious why you chose the 12+8 format. Why not 15 and 5, or 10-10? __________________ The M.O.B. Isaiah 54:17

02-24-2008, 10:16 AM	#5
Thunder Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 3,865	I would love to see a 75-round scorecard Judge Chuck Giampa scores it 718-699 . . . . __________________ I like Stats Mostly

02-24-2008, 10:50 AM	#6
Cap Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Large Province in God's Country Posts: 7,962	Andreas said something like it would require a major re-jigging of the engine to allow 20 rounders, never mind London Prize Ring Rules or even 45 rounders or finish fights. Can't imagine staying awake through 45 rounds of John Ruiz hugging some stumblebum. Cap P.S. May be my imagination, but ever since they stopped 15 rounders, there seem to be way more 12 round fights than 15s and 12s together in the olden days. __________________ "...There were Giants in Those Days.." Last edited by Cap; 02-24-2008 at 10:52 AM.

02-24-2008, 09:27 AM	#4
JohntheHammerHeyes Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 62	I think 20 rounds has been asked for before as an inclusion in the game but apparently it would take quite a lot of work to get it in there. Not sure, could be wrong mind.

02-24-2008, 11:40 AM	#7
yardmaster Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 29	In response to the question why 12+8, and not 10+10 or 10+12, no reason. They probably would work as well. Re the technical limitations of including 20+ rounders in the game, I am not savvy enough to know how difficult that woud be, but there probably would not be a enough interest in going to that trouble. Even during that era, 20 rounders were not common. I throw it in only occasionally for historical accuracy and to see what would happen versus 6-15 rounders. By the way, 20 round bouts were held later than you think. Max Baer fought a couple of 20 rounders in the 1930s, and Joe Louis' title fight with Abe Simon which ended in the 13th was scheduled for 20 rounds. In terms of more 12 rounders these days since the end of the 15 round era, I think that is more a function of the proliferation of titles now with the alphabet soup of rival boxing organizations. Finally, you might have guessed that I'm a purist who thinks title fights should go 15 rounds. They were stopped supposedly for "safety reasons," but I read recently that the shorter 12 round title fights were actually more compatible with TV schedules. John

02-24-2008, 01:32 PM	#8
JohntheHammerHeyes Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 62	Re: 15 v 12 rounds, that's exactly it. A 12 round fight lasts 47 minutes if it goes the distance (there are 11 one minute breaks obviously) which fits quite nicely into a one hour slot. A 15 round fight lasts 59 minutes if it goes the distance, not quite what TV networks are looking for. Ironically the first WBC title fight after they brought the 12 round rule in, ended up with one fighter (Bejines) dying after being knocked out in the 12th and last round.

02-24-2008, 04:16 PM	#10
JohntheHammerHeyes Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 62	When the WBC did go to 12 rounds the first fight under the new distance was Albert Davila v Kiko Bejines which ended in a 12th round KO for Davila and Bejines tragically died 3 days later. I remember Ring magazine at the time asking what would the WBC do now, reduce title fights to 11 rounds? The WBA, the sanctioning body whose title Mancini and Kim were fighting for, did not reduce their title distance until some years later (1987?). Certainly in 1986 their title fights were still for 15 rounds because I remember Witherspoon - Bruno was scheduled for 15. I remember reading an article at the time in which either the IBF or the WBA (both of whom still had 15 round title fights) were complaining that their fights weren't on network TV as much as the WBC and the time factor was mentioned. Could be rubbish though. If my memory serves the IBF were the last to switch to 12 rounders and the last 15 rounds title fight involved Jorge Paez.