OOTP and Rosters...A Sad Affair - Page 4

APujols5 · 07-31-2007, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

because I want real teams/colors/logos/stadiums/uniforms and the such, but just fictional players. I think a lot of people would like this actually.

Yea I did one of those, took maybe 2 days to set up

APujols5 · 07-31-2007, 05:13 PM

Dola,

This topic goes round and round, but I haven't heard anyone offering up suggestions to make the situation better yet.

PSUColonel · 07-31-2007, 05:18 PM

I am just very suprised at how few of these types of rosters/templates there are out there. I'd do it, but I know I don't have nearly enough knowledge or time to do it.

CubbyFan23 · 07-31-2007, 05:27 PM

My two cents...

AP is absolutely DEAD on about history re-importing. If we could somehow just hit a button to import stats to a current date after the league has already been setup, it would eliminate SO much work. I am clueless on why this is not in yet (not a bash).

An external editor would be amazing as well.

It seems like so many "editing" things in game are really just awkward and tough to use. I realize it may not seem like much but having to do a few extra steps when you edit thousands of players ends up being a lot of wasted time.

I'm planning on starting from scratch for next year's version, however I'm not sure that this is the problem. As I've said before, the file we're using now is a NEW file with the ratings simply copied over. That's a process of exporting to a .txt file, which (in my understanding) is only really numbers representing ratings, and then importing to the new *fresh* file. So unless for some reason having Adam Dunn with 85 power or whatever causes the game to crash, I'm pretty sure that's not the issue there.

CubbyFan23 · 07-31-2007, 05:28 PM

Also all of us were on beta, but to be quite honest, creating a roster in beta in the past has been close to mind-numbingly painful. This isn't a bash on the creators as I know what goes into creating a game and putting it through beta, but I remember especially for '06, everytime Erich and I would have something concrete, a new patch would throw things out of whack. When you consider that you don't always notice LITTLE things being messed up until way down the line, and then it's too late, its easy to see why a roster file developed through beta ends up being the bug-prone roster set that they are now.

Tony M · 07-31-2007, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CubbyFan23

An external editor would be amazing as well.

This would have to be a group project I think. We're not going to get the structure from the development team so we'd have to fully decode it by ourselves in order to get an external editor fully working.

I've done a fair bit on this but it's still far from being a polished application that does anything other than reading back in the csv files.

pstrickert · 07-31-2007, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by APujols5

Dola,

This topic goes round and round, but I haven't heard anyone offering up suggestions to make the situation better yet.

I think your recommendation in post #6 could help expedite the process next year. Someone else suggested that roster makers take a team approach. Otherwise, the roster making process comes to a standstill when "real life" intrudes on the roster maker's time.

ukslamjam · 07-31-2007, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

because I want real teams/colors/logos/stadiums/uniforms and the such, but just fictional players. I think a lot of people would like this actually.

I used Icy's set and the only thing you have to change is some of the formats of the uni's. All the corrected uni's are listed on Icy's uni page. Its pretty straight forward with regards to setting up a fictional MLB league, I did make a few adjustments to the financials but it was simple.

I dont know what all the fuss is about with the "real" rosters, after a year the rosters are going to be drastically wrong anyway. What's better than creating a fictional world where you can get to choose your own team from looking at stats and potentials and not have to concentrate on the players name. Dont get me wrong I love to re-create history and I like to see some player history so I started Icy's league in 1950 and simmed through until 2007. I think this years version is an amazing game and I have to say the longer you wait to get started the more you will miss out. IMHO that is. Anyway

Chill out guys, lets not turn people away from this site due to silly arguments. We are all here for one reason, we love basball!

APujols5 · 07-31-2007, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CubbyFan23

My two cents...

AP is absolutely DEAD on about history re-importing. If we could somehow just hit a button to import stats to a current date after the league has already been setup, it would eliminate SO much work. I am clueless on why this is not in yet (not a bash).

An external editor would be amazing as well.

It seems like so many "editing" things in game are really just awkward and tough to use. I realize it may not seem like much but having to do a few extra steps when you edit thousands of players ends up being a lot of wasted time.

I'm planning on starting from scratch for next year's version, however I'm not sure that this is the problem. As I've said before, the file we're using now is a NEW file with the ratings simply copied over. That's a process of exporting to a .txt file, which (in my understanding) is only really numbers representing ratings, and then importing to the new *fresh* file. So unless for some reason having Adam Dunn with 85 power or whatever causes the game to crash, I'm pretty sure that's not the issue there.

Cubby my only question for you is if you did start over from scratch except for importing the ratigns? how did you have so many troubles with the historical stats in the beginning? when you create a new lahman import, it automatically sets all that up for you... I've never seen that go wrong. So I would suggest that whatever went wrong there is creating more problems than you might realize. Again just a thought. But I have created and tested so many differnt leagues to get to where i understand the development and financial ends of this game, I've never seen that problem before.

APujols5 · 07-31-2007, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukslamjam

I used Icy's set and the only thing you have to change is some of the formats of the uni's. All the corrected uni's are listed on Icy's uni page. Its pretty straight forward with regards to setting up a fictional MLB league, I did make a few adjustments to the financials but it was simple.

I dont know what all the fuss is about with the "real" rosters, after a year the rosters are going to be drastically wrong anyway. What's better than creating a fictional world where you can get to choose your own team from looking at stats and potentials and not have to concentrate on the players name. Dont get me wrong I love to re-create history and I like to see some player history so I started Icy's league in 1950 and simmed through until 2007. I think this years version is an amazing game and I have to say the longer you wait to get started the more you will miss out. IMHO that is. Anyway

Chill out guys, lets not turn people away from this site due to silly arguments. We are all here for one reason, we love basball!

Hey UK, I actually think by getting this out and getting the conversations going between the people that do this stuff, it's only going to help us all. If Cubby, Erich, Matter, Murmur, Icy and Myself ever got together figured out what works, what doesn't work and moved forward with some unity we could offer a stronger more united front to get things from Markus that we want and need.

I really think there's needs to be a meeting of teh minds before Markus gets going on the next version of the game and not just roster makers, but mod makers in general make a united front to approach Markus with what is needed.

ukslamjam · 07-31-2007, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by APujols5

Hey UK, I actually think by getting this out and getting the conversations going between the people that do this stuff, it's only going to help us all. If Cubby, Erich, Matter, Murmur, Icy and Myself ever got together figured out what works, what doesn't work and moved forward with some unity we could offer a stronger more united front to get things from Markus that we want and need.

I really think there's needs to be a meeting of teh minds before Markus gets going on the next version of the game and not just roster makers, but mod makers in general make a united front to approach Markus with what is needed.

I totally agree with regards to all the mod makers and roster makers getting together. I think that when Markus and his team are feeling upto it (my sympathies are with you my, I have a long term illness and I know what it is like coping with the pressures of everyday life! Keep smiling buddy

) that everyone involved or who wants to be involved should get together and have a discussion about what they can do to make this game even greater than it already is. Invites only of course we wouldn't want a free for all!!

I only get a limited time free due to health and work but if I can be of any assistance with data entry or something along those lines I would be glad to help out. My thanks and appreciation goes out to all involved in making rosters/uni/mods.

Raidergoo · 07-31-2007, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by APujols5

If Cubby, Erich, Matter, Murmur, Icy and Myself ever got together figured out what works, what doesn't work and moved forward with some unity we could offer a stronger more united front to get things from Markus that we want and need.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=150520

Place your suggestions here. You have 3 weeks.

rasnell · 08-01-2007, 04:52 AM

I would love to have current rosters as well, but c'mon. You can create every single season in the history of baseball EXCEPT FOR 2007. Is that really a reason for such complaints?

Of course I'm stuck in the 1970s with my polyester and Earth shoes and happy as a clam.

gollum65 · 08-01-2007, 06:50 AM

I just wanted to clarify that my post was NOT a complaint about the mod makers for this game.

My #1 hobby is flight simulation. Go to www.avsim.com and just browse their file library and you'll get an idea of how many thousands of mods have been made just for MS Flight Simulator alone (many of which I had a hand in making). So I'm fully aware of how much work goes into making modifications to compliment existing software.

My post was mainly just to voice my overall disappointment with OOTPB, and to detail why I bought it and why I won't again.

And as for FM, I have no interest in that sport, so FM isn't a product I would buy. But I do realize that it's the "flagship" product of SI.

Thanks for the comments guys. This thread has been interesting reading. I hope next year's OOTPB is easier to mod then this year's version was.

hydrostar · 08-01-2007, 10:42 AM

I respect all the hard work from people who have tried to complete some rosters.

That said, I am very, very bummed that nothing has turned up yet. I've fictional'd and historical'd myself out, now. Yeah, playing that way is fun...but I prefer to use OOTP to do as realistic a current-sim as I can do. I love it. And we just don't get to do that this time around. And since last game was a total stinker...that makes it a couple years in a row.

It's painful as an OOTP fan, is all I am saying.

CubbyFan23 · 08-01-2007, 12:23 PM

I still have yet to understand why people think there's no rosters out yet. My set out right now is VERY functional and usable, I've played around 20-30 years with them so far and had no issues. There are some that come up sometimes, but for the most part they've been pretty stable and they include basically every player in the game so far. Is there some bells and whistles to add, of course, but people act like there's nothing out still. Between that, AP's impending set, and possibly Erich's down the line, I'm not sure where this is all coming from.

endgame · 08-01-2007, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rasnell

I would love to have current rosters as well, but c'mon. You can create every single season in the history of baseball EXCEPT FOR 2007.

Never thought about it from this vantage point, rasnell. Good observation. Seems obvious, now that you've mentioned it. I'm guessing all the logos and the majority of the unis are available somewhere, too?

darkcloud4579 · 08-01-2007, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by APujols5

If you want a good deep roster set, I'd love to know how you expect it to be so much easier?

There's nothing Markus can do to cut down on the research time needed to get things done

Not everyone gives a damn about the excessive detail put into some sets. I'm talking a quick and dirty roster set. Essentially, it should be simply to import a set from a previous year and have the stuff carry over give or take. It shouldn't require you to start from scratch each season. When you consider the rancor over real rosters this year, simply saying "it's too hard and it takes time" isn't good enough for people and I imagine it's going to cause more problems in the future if they don't find a solution. But of course, it's only one base of fans who are affected by this. So maybe it doesn't really matter much to everyone in the grand scheme of things.

It doesn't affect me that much, since I'm largely a fictional solo player. But for those legions who have read the positive reviews and want to dive right in, it's becoming more and more difficult. Believe it or not, people who have jobs, families and lives but would love to run a sim aren't going to have the time to invest, are going to throw up their hands and go buy Mogul or something.

And you could say "good riddance", but I can't say any reason that it should be such a cumbersome process. But it's not for me to determine, that's for the developers. I think this is a healthy discussion though, given that rosters were such a big issue this year.

darkcloud4579 · 08-01-2007, 01:44 PM

Dola --

I think an external editor -- given how big the mod community is here -- would be a really welcome addition. Sure it's one more thing for them to develop, but even FM/WWSM has an external data editor. I think OOTP needs one, because the biggest problem in the current way things work is, there isn't much of a way for mass collaboration that allows lots of people to do little pieces of work.

I mean, if you look at a game like SimCity, they released tools like the Building Architect Tool and as a result, SimCity 4 is still a vibrant game years after the game was released. I think that an external editor that is done well and allows the people who really enjoy the game to do delve deeply into it and keep things moving -- buying the developers time to do what they do, ultimately -- it would beneficial to everyone involved.

APujols5 · 08-01-2007, 01:45 PM

Well anyone could have a "dirty" roster as you call it pretty easily and simply. Just do a Lahman import and move some players to their current teams and you're done

08-01-2007, 04:52 AM	#73
rasnell Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Frankfort, Kentucky Posts: 3,746	I would love to have current rosters as well, but c'mon. You can create every single season in the history of baseball EXCEPT FOR 2007. Is that really a reason for such complaints? Of course I'm stuck in the 1970s with my polyester and Earth shoes and happy as a clam. __________________ Charlie Root won more games for the Cubs than any pitcher (201), yet was remembered for one pitch to Babe Ruth. Find out more about the 1929 World Series in my book, "Root for the Cubs: Charlie Root and the 1929 Chicago Cubs." See the web site at www.rootforthecubs.com. The book is at http://www.amazon.com/Root-Cubs-Char...t+for+the+cubs. Beta tester, OOTP 2007-2023 and iOOTP 2011-2014.

08-01-2007, 12:23 PM	#76
CubbyFan23 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 2,257	I still have yet to understand why people think there's no rosters out yet. My set out right now is VERY functional and usable, I've played around 20-30 years with them so far and had no issues. There are some that come up sometimes, but for the most part they've been pretty stable and they include basically every player in the game so far. Is there some bells and whistles to add, of course, but people act like there's nothing out still. Between that, AP's impending set, and possibly Erich's down the line, I'm not sure where this is all coming from. Last edited by CubbyFan23; 08-01-2007 at 12:24 PM.

08-01-2007, 01:44 PM	#79
darkcloud4579 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 8,712	Dola -- I think an external editor -- given how big the mod community is here -- would be a really welcome addition. Sure it's one more thing for them to develop, but even FM/WWSM has an external data editor. I think OOTP needs one, because the biggest problem in the current way things work is, there isn't much of a way for mass collaboration that allows lots of people to do little pieces of work. I mean, if you look at a game like SimCity, they released tools like the Building Architect Tool and as a result, SimCity 4 is still a vibrant game years after the game was released. I think that an external editor that is done well and allows the people who really enjoy the game to do delve deeply into it and keep things moving -- buying the developers time to do what they do, ultimately -- it would beneficial to everyone involved. __________________ ------ My Mods OOTP Advanced Stats & DFS Suite Managerial Strategy Pack Competitive Balance Tax Calculator Major League Women's Baseball (OOTP24) quickstart Indian Premier League \| 300+ years of baseball quickstart \| Expatriate League quickstart \| Off-Field Injuries Update \| Women's Name File for OOTP \| ---- Dynasty classics: Centurion comes to OOTP5 \| DC Moneyball Dynasty (2004)

07-31-2007, 05:13 PM	#62
APujols5 Banned Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: CP Indiana Posts: 1,667 Infractions: 1/3 (3)	Dola, This topic goes round and round, but I haven't heard anyone offering up suggestions to make the situation better yet.

07-31-2007, 05:18 PM	#63
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,143	I am just very suprised at how few of these types of rosters/templates there are out there. I'd do it, but I know I don't have nearly enough knowledge or time to do it.

07-31-2007, 05:27 PM	#64
CubbyFan23 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 2,257	My two cents... AP is absolutely DEAD on about history re-importing. If we could somehow just hit a button to import stats to a current date after the league has already been setup, it would eliminate SO much work. I am clueless on why this is not in yet (not a bash). An external editor would be amazing as well. It seems like so many "editing" things in game are really just awkward and tough to use. I realize it may not seem like much but having to do a few extra steps when you edit thousands of players ends up being a lot of wasted time. I'm planning on starting from scratch for next year's version, however I'm not sure that this is the problem. As I've said before, the file we're using now is a NEW file with the ratings simply copied over. That's a process of exporting to a .txt file, which (in my understanding) is only really numbers representing ratings, and then importing to the new fresh file. So unless for some reason having Adam Dunn with 85 power or whatever causes the game to crash, I'm pretty sure that's not the issue there.

07-31-2007, 05:28 PM	#65
CubbyFan23 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 2,257	Also all of us were on beta, but to be quite honest, creating a roster in beta in the past has been close to mind-numbingly painful. This isn't a bash on the creators as I know what goes into creating a game and putting it through beta, but I remember especially for '06, everytime Erich and I would have something concrete, a new patch would throw things out of whack. When you consider that you don't always notice LITTLE things being messed up until way down the line, and then it's too late, its easy to see why a roster file developed through beta ends up being the bug-prone roster set that they are now.

08-01-2007, 06:50 AM	#74
gollum65 All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 925	I just wanted to clarify that my post was NOT a complaint about the mod makers for this game. My #1 hobby is flight simulation. Go to www.avsim.com and just browse their file library and you'll get an idea of how many thousands of mods have been made just for MS Flight Simulator alone (many of which I had a hand in making). So I'm fully aware of how much work goes into making modifications to compliment existing software. My post was mainly just to voice my overall disappointment with OOTPB, and to detail why I bought it and why I won't again. And as for FM, I have no interest in that sport, so FM isn't a product I would buy. But I do realize that it's the "flagship" product of SI. Thanks for the comments guys. This thread has been interesting reading. I hope next year's OOTPB is easier to mod then this year's version was.

08-01-2007, 10:42 AM	#75
hydrostar Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 57	I respect all the hard work from people who have tried to complete some rosters. That said, I am very, very bummed that nothing has turned up yet. I've fictional'd and historical'd myself out, now. Yeah, playing that way is fun...but I prefer to use OOTP to do as realistic a current-sim as I can do. I love it. And we just don't get to do that this time around. And since last game was a total stinker...that makes it a couple years in a row. It's painful as an OOTP fan, is all I am saying.

08-01-2007, 01:45 PM	#80
APujols5 Banned Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: CP Indiana Posts: 1,667 Infractions: 1/3 (3)	Well anyone could have a "dirty" roster as you call it pretty easily and simply. Just do a Lahman import and move some players to their current teams and you're done