Extremely Inappropriate Nickname?

[Syd Thrift]

dola,

Originally Posted by Jordan

If someone is offended by a nickname that can be manually taken out, then maybe this game isn't for them. I'm not trying to thin out the market of those interested in the game, but if someone's offended by that, then maybe their time would be better suited working with organizations such as the ACLU, or the Rainbow Coalition, instead of speaking to SI on what they should do in hopes of avoiding a 'controversy', or playing this game.

No sarcasm intended

Is this seriously the line in the sand that you're drawing? No offense, but that's ludicrous. I can see defining OOTP as intellectual and saying that if you're going to be confused by numbers and "inside baseball" then the game isn't for you. I can see defining the game as one where the action takes place inside one's head and then saying that if you want to see pretty balls being caught by pretty ballplayers then this isn't the game for you. I would even go so far as to say that if all you care about are model trains and think baseball is the one with the tea, then this is not the game for you.

But saying that OOTP isn't the game for you if you are offended by nicknames that glorify the Klu Klux Klan? Seriously, now. Maybe "Jew Boy" is going too far, but what if the game had "Skinhead"? Would you say that should be in there? And what about "Nig", since you think that the 6-letter version of that is so clearly across the line? There have been several major-leaguers with that nickname (including Nig Clarke, who once participated in a game his team won 51-3) and none to my knowledge ever known as "the Grand Wizard".

I honestly don't see what place "Grand Wizard" has in the game. I am sure that somebody other than Markus put it in, perhaps to be funny (and no, it wasn't me). If you want it in there, then put it into the nickname file yourself.

[tcblcommish]

Originally Posted by Go Tribe

so if they had a nick name called "jew boy" or "nazi youth" or "nigger", you guys who are saying it's no big deal would be ok with that too?

That might be a little strong... I know for a fact that if they were there people would be up in arms and rightfully so.

[texasmame]

What the hell, people?!?

http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...restling&gbv=2

Big F'in DEAL!

[Jordan]

The point is that it is in there already. If people want to take it out themselves, then they should. To each his own. I personally don't think it should be taken out, and don't think it will be. Even if it has nothing to do with the game, as pointed out, other people have made livings with the name and were not associated with the KKK. How, I don't know, but it happened. So why is this the only connotation that can be drawn from its inclusion? We all love this for the beacon of customization that it is, so just remove it and move on. I sympathize with the idea of this, but disagree that SI must do something about

[Syd Thrift]

(deleted: not up to par)

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Because this is itto yeaw 2007, not itto yeaw 1426.

Because the KKK existed then?

I'm done arguing because I believe I've said all I can about this. It would be nice to see what someone like Marc or Markus think about this.

[Sans Pystal]

Maybe inappropriate, but so is "Melanoma" imo.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

but what if the game had "Skinhead"? Would you say that should be in there?

I'm not going to argue about "grand wizard" appearing in the game. Frankly I would have thought the name came from games like Dungeons and Dragons or perhaps The Bard's Tale rather than the Klan. Before you start to think I'm totally naive I do know the term was used in the Klan. I just figured there are enough RP games out there that it wasn't the only use. Take it out, leave it in, I really don't care.

On to the quote..

I imagine from the context of the post you think Skinhead should be removed if it was in the game? This is where I have problems with PC and being oversensitive to words in our language that can have several meanings.

When I was growing up in the late '60's and early 70's Skinhead was our 7th grade English teacher. Yes he was bald and mean and the name wasn't because we liked him. Skinhead could also be used as as a nickname for a bald person that was your friend (of course if you weren't his friend you didn't dare call him skinhead ). Hell, in my youth I could imagine Harmon Killebrew being nicknamed skinhead by some of his teammates, not out in public but in the clubhouse.

I can't remember the first time I heard the word skinhead used for the group of morons that are white supremacists but I'll bet I was over 20 years of age.
I fail to see why we would let this very, very, very, small minority of idiots take a word out of our language, too me it's ridiculous.

There has to be some perspective used in this ever evolving PC world or eventually there won't be any words left to use. There will always be questions on where to draw the line and you will always be able to find someone that is offended by almost anything. So, who gets to draw the line?

Too me, a balding man, skinhead is not offensive when used as a nickname. If you and I golf together once a week and you comment on the green "nice putt skinhead" I will smile and say thanks. It is offensive if we're strangers and bump into each other getting on an elevator and you say "watch where you're going skinhead". In neither case does my mind wander to white supremacists and I don't think it should. In neither situation do I believe you are calling me a racist. I'm only offended in the elevator situation because you are a stranger calling me "baldy", nothing more and nothing less.

[Khrog]

Originally Posted by Althius

Playing a game out today, and I came across a pitcher in a fictional league playing for the Nationals: Javier "Grand Wizard" Olivarez.

I'm not trying to be the PC police here... but here is the only entry for "Grand Wizard" from Wikipedia:

You must have something better to do with your time. Leave Grand Wizard alone. Wikipedia is also just a knowledge base edited by mere mortals and is not the final authority on anything.

I can't believe that this bothered anyone at all.

[Brewer77]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Coincidental? I'm pretty sure the only reason *anybody* nowadays uses the word "grand" before the word "wizard" is because of the KKK connotation. Let's be realistic here. How many people do you see where you say "hey, that guy is a wizard! He owns robes with stars all over them and has a pointy hat and can cast magical spells and most likely has a long, flowing beard!" Now, of that small subset of people, about how many of them can you make the case that they are truly "grand"?

1 a : having more importance than others : FOREMOST b : having higher rank than others bearing the same general designation <the grand="" champion="">
2 a : INCLUSIVE, COMPREHENSIVE <the grand="" total="" of="" all="" money="" paid="" out=""> b : DEFINITIVE, INCONTROVERTIBLE <grand example="">
3 : CHIEF, PRINCIPAL
4 : large and striking in size, scope, extent, or conception <grand design="">
5 a : LAVISH, SUMPTUOUS b : marked by a regal form and dignity c : fine or imposing in appearance or impression d : LOFTY, SUBLIME <writing in="" the="" grand="" style="">
6 a : pretending to social superiority : SUPERCILIOUS b : intended to impress </writing>
7 : very good : WONDERFUL

Now, of THAT group, how many play baseball? David Wells, MAYBE.

I think this sums it up. Thanks, Syd

I can't believe this topic has had so many comments and on top of that I added one to it
</grand></grand></the></the>

[swampdragon]

Change it to "Kreskin".

Are we sure Grand Wizard's not one of the 17,112 D&D titles for a mage?

[darthpb]

Originally Posted by AD31

When Randy was pitching for the M's, the manager at my work, who did not follow baseball, thought they were saying "The Big Eunuch" same body area, totally different meaning.

That's what I called him when he was a Yankee

[darthpb]

Originally Posted by Khrog

You must have something better to do with your time. Leave Grand Wizard alone. Wikipedia is also just a knowledge base edited by mere mortals and is not the final authority on anything.

I can't believe that this bothered anyone at all.

Really! I'm spending time in my baseball world; politics, P.C., social issues, et.al. do not exist in my "fantasy" world.

[Exorcst]

When I first read the thread I also thought it was a reference to a D&D type thing. Maybe cause I play games like LOTRO, DAOC, WOW that's my frame of reference and the first thing that jumps to mind, not some social group.

Words can never be bad, intentions are bad, but never words by themselves.

[shefffred]

Originally Posted by Sweed

I can't remember the first time I heard the word skinhead used for the group of morons that are white supremacists but I'll bet I was over 20 years of age.
I fail to see why we would let this very, very, very, small minority of idiots take a word out of our language, too me it's ridiculous.

There has to be some perspective used in this ever evolving PC world or eventually there won't be any words left to use. There will always be questions on where to draw the line and you will always be able to find someone that is offended by almost anything. So, who gets to draw the line?

Too me, a balding man, skinhead is not offensive when used as a nickname. If you and I golf together once a week and you comment on the green "nice putt skinhead" I will smile and say thanks. It is offensive if we're strangers and bump into each other getting on an elevator and you say "watch where you're going skinhead". In neither case does my mind wander to white supremacists and I don't think it should. In neither situation do I believe you are calling me a racist. I'm only offended in the elevator situation because you are a stranger calling me "baldy", nothing more and nothing less.

It's all about context. I've lived in the UK for a long time, and the term 'skinhead' I, and many others in this country, would find extremely uncomfortable. We've had to live with such racist scum for a long time, and now see a neo-fascist party composed of present and former 'skinheads' actually gaining support. If I saw it pop up in the game, I would be disasppointed, and a tad-bit disgusted.

Now, similarly, some people find the term 'Grand Wizard' in poor taste. Maybe from your point of view, its not a problem. Fair enough. You are fortunate not to have been affected by this potentially rascist term in the past. But, SI has now been informed that this nickname is a problem to some people who have been affected. Commercially, it would make sense to remove it.

BTW, for those people who think that we should all self-edit our nickname files, I'll allow you to edit your own nickname files and reinsert Grand Wizard after it's removed. OK?

Oh, and I think we should have 'slaphead' instead of 'skinhead' in the game. Much more evocative.

[RchW]

I wonder what the author of this book would say?

http://www.amazon.ca/Grand-Wizard-Ko.../dp/1424107350

[shefffred]

Originally Posted by Jordan

If someone is offended by a nickname that can be manually taken out, then maybe this game isn't for them. I'm not trying to thin out the market of those interested in the game, but if someone's offended by that, then maybe their time would be better suited working with organizations such as the ACLU, or the Rainbow Coalition, instead of speaking to SI on what they should do in hopes of avoiding a 'controversy', or playing this game.

No sarcasm intended

Actually, the ACLU would as a matter of principle probably fight to retain the nickname. If you wish to villify a point of view as liberal, make sure you get your organizations straight. Jeesh.

Sarcasm intended.

[eborix]

PC police strike again

[RBLwebguy]

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/play...hp?p=rockejo01

There you go, I am sure whoever edited the nick file for 2007 did it with no ill intent

Then again, Rocker made racist remarks during his career I believe

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by RBLwebguy

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/play...hp?p=rockejo01

There you go, I am sure whoever edited the nick file for 2007 did it with no ill intent

Then again, Rocker made racist remarks during his career I believe

You're aware that Rocker was nicknamed The Grand Wizard precisely BECAUSE of the racist remarks, right? I'm not sure that helps your cause. And again, I don't see anybody campaigning to include "Nig", so the "it's there in real life noob" argument doesn't hold a great deal of water.