The European football thread

[Sdpm100]

Originally Posted by zoraster

Never going to happen given the concept of the good of the game is drowned out by the good of my club. Take Falls attitude in your above conversation as case in point. Football is determined to compete with itself and strangle its own business rather than look to compete with other sports and provide a top notch product.

And you've got the continuing Club vs. Country row that is threatening to change international football forever if the clubs get their way for compensation for players playing for their country.

[bababui]

Originally Posted by Sdpm100

And you've got the continuing Club vs. Country row that is threatening to change international football forever if the clubs get their way for compensation for players playing for their country.

Lets hope international football doesnt change..although with the money involved it would seem fair to reform the comensation provisions for injured players.

[rudel.dietrich]

Steve Bruce is the new Man Utd manager in my FM game
Who is he? I see that he had a loooong career
What management experience does he have?

That would be quite a role to step into coming on the heels of a living legend

[LFC1892]

He's another male model:

Steve Bruce was a bedrock of Manchester United's success in the 1990's. Commanding the United back four with a reassuring presence, control and great tactical awareness, Bruce was the steady foundation upon which to build a great team. Most importantly of all, he had an unquenchable spirit and motivation often playing with injuries that would put lesser men in hospital. His bravery and courage was unrivalled, a totally committed player ready to give his all for his team, and this inspired the team-mates around him.

In his first game for United he broke his nose, not for the last time either. The big Geordie seemed to be indestructible. Alex Ferguson once joked "When he passes on I want his body for medical research, its hard to know what this man's made of". Bruce had great ball control, passing and composure and while he could be tested by cleverly deployed pace, his experience ensured that he was rarely ever caught out.

He also boasted a very high scoring rate for a centre half with his 19 goals (including 11 penalties) in 1990/91 making him top scorer that season. Bruce scored a total of 51 goals in 411 United starting appearances, roughly a goal every eight games. His most famous goal-scoring moment will always be the 2 goals he scored against Sheffield Wednesday in the dying minutes of the game at the end of the 1993 season.

With United 1-0 down, Bruce saved United's title hopes with two amazing headed goals, sending Old Trafford into delirium and setting United on course for their first title in twenty six long years. Not only that, the legendary footballing adage of the 1990's was born - "Man Utd always score in the last minute". There can be no doubt it was because of the determination and drive of players like Steve Bruce, that headlines from then on would often read "United in last gasp victory".


He started his career at Norwich City and was bought by United in December 1987 for £800,000 saying "I'd crawl all the way from Norwich to Manchester for the chance to play for United". Alex Ferguson wisely decided to build his team from the bottom up and Bruce was to be a key component in United's rebuilding. While his club career was a string of successes the only blot on his record is his lack of international recognition.

The United Captain only won U21 caps when he obviously should have won full caps. Bruce is probably England's best ever uncapped player, and Bobby Robson has since admitted this glaring mistake. He could have played for Northern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland had he not been disqualified by an England youth appearance. After leaving United, he played with Birmingham City for a spell before moving into management with Sheffield United. He was unsuccessful with The Blades and moved for a brief period in charge of Huddersfield Town. Bruce then moved to Crystal Palace and after some controversy, he left them to return to Birmingham City in 2001, this time as manager. He was an immediate sucess at St Andrews, in his first season he took the club up into the Premiership. Few would doubt that Brucey would love to return to Old Trafford as manager one day and repeat the success he had as a player.

Steve Bruce is Manchester United's second most successful captain, having led the club to three Premier League titles, the 1992 League cup and the 1994 FA Cup.

[edrooney]

Originally Posted by bababui

I wish you are/were right. I had high expectations for this match.

Pretty poor game. Thought ManU would show up and actually take it with at least a draw. They completely lay down. Barely created a chance in the game. Milan were completely dominant, in no small part because of Gattuso.

Could do with Gattuso getting a small knock before the final. And Kaka. Hmm.

[LFC1892]

From EPL.com:

TOP 10 CLEAN SHEETS
Chelsea21
Liv'pool20
Man City14
Man Utd14
Everton13
Reading 13
Aston Villa 12
Bolton 12
Arsenal 11
Charlton 11


So what do you assume might happen when the top 2 Def teams meet?

Do you know what the last 4 results between Wigan and Fulham have been?

1-0
0-1
1-0
0-0

Maybe they should ban them playing each other as well, but maybe Wigan will decide that for themselves?

Yes, two completely different sets of teams(it's arguable if one set actually deserves to be in the EPL) but according to your "borefest" comments, the same rule should apply shouldnt it?

I respect your opinions as always, but I couldnt read one more "borefest" comment without saying something!

[zoraster]

I hate people who only equate the quality of a football match with the number of goals. Very high scoring games generally are as dull as dish water in my opinion thanks to the oodles of crap defending. Likewise some of the best games I've ever seen have been 0-0s. People who can't appreciate good defending are not football fans, they are eye candy fans. That said it doesn't change the fact that those earlier Liverpool Chelsea games were awful to watch for the neutral

LFC: I don’t know where you copied that Bruce bio from, but it has cut out a large portion of his career. He didn’t start his career at Norwich, far from it in fact. People often forget how experienced he was by the time United signed him as he’d only played two and a half seasons in the top flight. He was actually in his tenth season in the football league when United signed him. He started out at Gillingham, and was a regular there for six seasons. Showing my age here, but I actually remember seeing his league debut back in 78 when Gillingham played away to Blackpool. He played somewhere in the region of 200 games for the Gills, a figure only surpassed in his spell at United.

He was very unlucky as far as international recognition was concerned. He had the double misfortune to play during an era when England were blessed with central defensive talent - other victims include Steve Foster who only got three caps, Steve Bould two - and suffered from a badly timed relegation. His first season in the top flight was truly outstanding, but at the end of it Norwich had been relegated. With the Mexico WC coming at the end of the next season Bruce slipped out of the picture while playing in the second division. By the next WC the competition was beginning to thin out, but he was already 30, and younger talents had an equally strong claim with a greater long term upside so he never got a chance.

[LFC1892]

Sorry about that...I just googled it and some 4thegame.com bio came up so I just copied that for Falls. It covered his management I think, so was that part correct?

And UKHS, I am disagreeing with you because it will make the OT4 division in Khans GTR2 thread more interesting...pity they dont make an EPL color scheme set for the Vipers.

[LFC1892]

Originally Posted by ukhotstove

I wouldn't have either of them on my team so both the same, Bellamy is reported to be wanting to go back to Celtic, God I hope he doesn't.

I think Blackburn,Villa and Sunderland are also after him. He's a quick little bastard, but too damn psycho for my liking.

[Raderick]

I wanted to kill myself after watching United take a beatdown.

[ukhotstove]

Originally Posted by LFC1892

From EPL.com:

TOP 10 CLEAN SHEETS
Chelsea21
Liv'pool20
Man City14
Man Utd14
Everton13
Reading 13
Aston Villa 12
Bolton 12
Arsenal 11
Charlton 11


So what do you assume might happen when the top 2 Def teams meet?

Do you know what the last 4 results between Wigan and Fulham have been?

1-0
0-1
1-0
0-0

Maybe they should ban them playing each other as well, but maybe Wigan will decide that for themselves?

Yes, two completely different sets of teams(it's arguable if one set actually deserves to be in the EPL) but according to your "borefest" comments, the same rule should apply shouldnt it?

I respect your opinions as always, but I couldnt read one more "borefest" comment without saying something!

The difference though is that the powers that be who run the TV stations keep forcing us to watch Chelsea v Liverpool, yes the last two should have been on they were semi final legs but why do they feel the need to put every Liverpool v Chelsea game on when the odds are stacked it will be a boring game.

Also one of the Wigan v Fulham games that finished 1-0 to Wigan could have ended up 4-4, Fulham had 3 great chances in the first 10 minutes and it ended up a decent game can you say the same about any of the Chelsea v Liverpool games.

[ukhotstove]

Originally Posted by zoraster

I hate people who only equate the quality of a football match with the number of goals. Very high scoring games generally are as dull as dish water in my opinion thanks to the oodles of crap defending. Likewise some of the best games I've ever seen have been 0-0s. People who can't appreciate good defending are not football fans, they are eye candy fans. That said it doesn't change the fact that those earlier Liverpool Chelsea games were awful to watch for the neutral

Like I said earlier I've seen many a good 0-0 and being an ex defender I can appreciate good defending but what Chelsea and Liverpool have served up the past few years is almost agony to watch.

[edrooney]

Originally Posted by ukhotstove

The difference though is that the powers that be who run the TV stations keep forcing us to watch Chelsea v Liverpool, yes the last two should have been on they were semi final legs but why do they feel the need to put every Liverpool v Chelsea game on when the odds are stacked it will be a boring game.

Also one of the Wigan v Fulham games that finished 1-0 to Wigan could have ended up 4-4, Fulham had 3 great chances in the first 10 minutes and it ended up a decent game can you say the same about any of the Chelsea v Liverpool games.

Well, as per my previous post, Liverpool had a marginal second goal from Kuyt ruled out, Kuyt hit the bar, and had another pretty good chance. Crouch also forced a good save from Cech, and Zenden (who's rubbish) had a decent crack.

On the Chelsea side, Carragher somehow kept Drogba from scoring from a yard, Drogba had another decent crack in the first half, and Cole had some dangerous runs into the box late in normal time.

And in the first leg, Chelsea had a bundle of chances in the first half, and Liverpool forced a superb save from Cech. That was a game where Liverpool played poorly.

No, it was unlikely that this game / tie would ever be 4-4, but that's because both teams are, like, good and have very solid defences - which is part of the reason they are in the CL semis in the first place. No, the games were not wonderful games, with both teams adopting a cautious approach, but then both teams have decent attacks, which required adopting some caution.

The reasons that every Liverpool v. Chelsea game is on telly are (a) both have large fan bases, (b) both teams are usually in the advanced stages of competitions - although Liverpool's 3rd place may as well be 13th with how far they are behind Chelsea in the league, (c) there's a genuine antagonistic rivalry between the teams that some neutrals may take interest in. I guess if I was a neutral and thought it a safe bet that a game would be a 'borefest', I wouldn't watch it. Enough people continue to watch these games to encourage Sky to keep showing them.

And if you truly 'enjoy good defending', I can't understand how these games would be agony to watch in their entirety. There has been some wonderful defending, particularly in the second leg with both pairs of centrebacks dominating the game.

[ukhotstove]

I don’t understand you mention attempts on goal and such and good defending then you even state yourself that “the games were not wonderful games”, personally I don’t think it was good defending and a cautious approach that made these games boring, personally I think it’s two teams with a lack of imagination.

I think it was you or could have been someone else that put on this board “Chelsea hit the diagonal long ball to Drogba” or something on those lines and that’s what Chelsea are about and if that doesn’t work then they don’t seem to have a plan B.

Liverpool it’s either long shots from either Gerrard or Risse and the ball into Crouch and that’s all they seem to do, they don’t seem to use Kuyt enough especially round the box who imo is one of the better players at Liverpool.

Also you state why Liverpool v Chelsea are always on the TV “both have large fan bases” and your spot on because that’s all Sky are concerned with is getting as much money of fans as they can do and forget the entertainment part, I mean if were honest if Sky weren’t forced to put the less supported teams on like Wigan, Blackburn, Bolton and so on they wouldn’t put them on and we’d be watching either Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea or Arsenal every week.

The “I wouldn’t watch it” comment, well to be honest if I had Sky at work I wouldn’t have bothered watching the Liverpool v Chelsea game I’d have watched the United game the day after instead but seeing that it was the only game I could watch this week then beggars can’t be choosers. I didn’t even watch all the game, I missed the extra time as I knew that it would just be two teams waiting for penalties and by all accounts it was, what doesn’t surprise me though about the Liverpool v Chelsea discussions on this thread is that only Liverpool fans seem to be defending the game, would they be doing the same thing if it was say Chelsea v Man Utd ? Or Chelsea v Arsenal, I don’t think so.

One thing I did love about the game was when the TV companies were interviewing Liverpool fans after the game and there was hardly a Scouse accent among them this coming from a fan base who are always ridiculing the fact most of Man Utd’s fans come from outside Manchester

[darkhorse]

Tom Hicks has had a pretty decent early return on his investment.

Good to see Liverpool in their rightful place atop the football world.

[ukhotstove]

What are peoples predictions for the Milan v Liverpool final ? Personally I think Liverpool need to score first as there is no way in hell that Milan will let them comeback like they did last time, if Liverpool don't score first I'd be looking at Milan taking a 1-0 but at most a 2-0 lead then just killing the game stone dead, in other words the Italian way of diving, time wasting and cheating they will not let a repeat of last time happen that's for sure.

My prediction Milan 2-0 Liverpool, Kaka man of the match.

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by ukhotstove

My prediction Milan 2-0 Liverpool, Kaka man of the match.

I think your prediction is kaka.

[bababui]

It was Tevez that single-handedly killed Wigan saturday. He has such immense talent, strength and will.

What kind of accent does Jewell have? He was hard to understand?

If Liverfool score first they win because Milans style doesnt lend itself to playing from behind.

[ukhotstove]

Originally Posted by darkhorse

Tom Hicks has had a pretty decent early return on his investment.

Good to see Liverpool in their rightful place atop the football world.

They need to win the Premiership though before they can claim to be top of the world, winning the Champions League were anybody can win it because of it being a one of game format is all good but if your not even 1st or 2nd in your country you can't be top of the world imo.

And before anybody says I have a chip on my shoulder where Liverpool are concerned, imo only league winners should be allowed into the Champions League and not teams who aren't good enough to win their league let alone teams who finish 3rd or 4th.

[ukhotstove]

Originally Posted by darkhorse

I think your prediction is kaka.

If Kaka plays like he has been doing I can't even see Liverpools back four holding him for 90 mins.