OOTP 2007 3 steps forward, 2 steps back...

[Neags23]

Originally Posted by BruceM

Well, each line-up has its own tab, so you could do them one at a time instead of all at once in the overview tab.

Thanks for the tip. This is true, but it still doesn't give you your players in the order of the lineup. Combining this method along with sorting by AB's is probably as good as it's going to get for now, but like I said in previous posts, that doesn't give you your actual lineup, either.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by Neags23

Thanks for the tip. This is true, but it still doesn't give you your players in the order of the lineup. Combining this method along with sorting by AB's is probably as good as it's going to get for now, but like I said in previous posts, that doesn't give you your actual lineup, either.

Yes, but you could also combine it with the players highlighted in green.

To each his/her own I suppose, personally I like it the way it is now. Not much of a burden at all to glance up for stats. If you're trying to put your players in the line-up based on highest avg or highest obp then just sort them based on highest avg or obp. Use splits when setting vs L and vs R line-ups.

[zekester91]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

of those decisions was to leave the baserunning control out because the manager in real life cannot yell at the runner to take the extra base

But a manager can flash signals to the baserunning coach before each at-bat, giving him more up to date information for the situation than just some general gidelines before the game. Not to mention that the real life Baserunning coach can take into account arm streaths of outfeilders and previous plays in the game instead of general gidelines before the game. We don't have the option to say for instance if bernie williams touches the ball run no-matter what, but if either of the other outfielder get the ball don't.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by Neags23

I'm not sure if this is a response to my comment, but that is the very screen I'm talking about. Those options are fantastic, but they only allow you to see them for your whole roster, or just by position, or all batters, or all pitchers. I'd like to be able to only see stats for my lineup.

For instance, where (in that screen shot) it says "Position: All Batters" I'd like an option that says "Lineup vs. RHP", etc. That makes it much easier to sort your lineup, glance at how your lineup has been doing the last few weeks, whatever, rather than looking at your entire roster, or only 2nd basemen, etc. Make sense?

Good idea! If there's room he might want to make it a separate dropdown though. And I'm guessing you might not want the upper table to be just those in the lineup because then it would be not as easy to drag and drop them below. Just have those in the lineup in order at the top with the rest listed below them.

Or if that's too difficult, Markus could just add a "Currently Selected Lineup #" column and then people could add that column to whatever view they want be it stats, ratings, whatever and then sort by it. A good filter might then be "Currently in Lineup" just in case you really do only want those in the lineup to be listed above.

[SunDevil]

Originally Posted by zekester91

But a manager can flash signals to the baserunning coach before each at-bat, giving him more up to date information for the situation than just some general gidelines before the game. Not to mention that the real life Baserunning coach can take into account arm streaths of outfeilders and previous plays in the game instead of general gidelines before the game. We don't have the option to say for instance if bernie williams touches the ball run no-matter what, but if either of the other outfielder get the ball don't.

I am a firm believer of having options. I would like this option. Some might not use it, fine but I would really want the option

[ravinhood]

I guess it's nice to be a firm believer in options and things YOU don't have to program en?

Me, I'm more or less just a firm believer in letting the developer know what I like, but, it's up to him whether he feels it needs imposing or not or included as an option.

[sporr]

First of all, thanks to all for the input. It's unfortunate, but the biggest OOTP 2007 improvements might just be under the hood. Quite simply, if you are concerned with having a game that has an ultra-realistic development/aging model and realism in the way that ratings relate to one another in addition to stat output, this game is probably 10 steps forward and 2 steps back in the analogy. 6.5 certainly provided realistic seeming stats on the surface, but if you dug a little deeper you would find inconsistency and a lack of realism in statistical output in many cases.

[The Wolf]

I'd also like to be able to decide ("Try for third? y/n") whether or not each runner tries to take an extra base.

For 2008, maybe?

[Ambermonk]

I miss the hitting streaks from 6.5. I read last year that it would be reinstated in a future mod but I guess that it never made it.

In the linup screen, I miss some of the key stats adjacent to the players - like batting average & homeruns. I found these usefull when I knew who would be in my lineup but I wanted to fiddle with the order.

That being said, my first impression of OOTP 2007 is that nearly everything has been improved. As a published computer game author (many years ago) I am truly amazed at the quality & depth of the program. Words can't describe my admiration for what has been done with this game system.

One last note: I haven't heard it mentioned with 2007, but I hope that one day we will see the return of the sound package - the quiet hum of the fans, the crack of the bat against the ball, etc.

[DougWyatt]

Maybe I'm not following, but it seems fairly easy to me to get what you want.



If you notice you can "View" the stats you want (AVG, HR, RBI + others), as well as your specific lineup.

1. Batting Stats 1 View (changeable just above the batters in "View")
2. Lineup vs LHP w DH (changeable with #4)
3. Split (vs. Left - changeable under the "Split" tab on the same line as "View")
* Of note, notice that only my starters vs. LHPw/DH are highlighted in green.


Now, you have your lineup at the bottom - and you simply have to look up

Is that what you are looking for, or did I not understand correctly ?

[Sirhawk]

Here is the problem Doug: When you are looking down at the lineup it is 100 times easier to see the 9 players that are in the lineup (with their stats underneath them or to the side) and have the ease of moving them around without having to wade through the people not in the lineup and to visualize where you want them in the lineup and then look down and try and remember where you want to put them. It isn't impossible, but the original thread I started on this basically was to say "hey, this is harder than before to do....why???". I think after most people get used to a certain efficiency in something like this, it is very hard to want to go back to something that takes more steps. Kind of like buying a faster computer...sure, the old one works, but not nearly as fast...and most just hate slowing down for no reason

Sirhawk

[Ambermonk]

Sirhawk is right. My lineup players are almost never all on one screen, as in your example. By the time you scroll up & down trying to juggle BAs, HRs, ABs, and such, it is difficult to remember who was where.

As an alternative to going back to the old way (which I liked), perhaps we can have the best of both worlds. The problem would be adequately solved if there existed a "Current Lineup" filter that would display only the players that were listed in the selected lineup below. Then it would be reasonably simple to compare stats and fine-tune the lineup. What do you guys think?

[ravinhood]

Originally Posted by sporr

First of all, thanks to all for the input. It's unfortunate, but the biggest OOTP 2007 improvements might just be under the hood. Quite simply, if you are concerned with having a game that has an ultra-realistic development/aging model and realism in the way that ratings relate to one another in addition to stat output, this game is probably 10 steps forward and 2 steps back in the analogy. 6.5 certainly provided realistic seeming stats on the surface, but if you dug a little deeper you would find inconsistency and a lack of realism in statistical output in many cases.

Can't argue with that. 2007 definitely puts 6.5a to shame in the stats department and even the trading game. Lots more realistic to me and lots more fun and challenging. I'm really impressed with the pitching stats in relation to real pitching stats. So nice to have upper 3's and lower 4's instead of upper 4's and 5's. Where Randy Johnson actually produces stats like Randy Johnson. I almost thought it was messed up again when he struckout 359 batters and later looked up his history only to find he had struck out 372 at that point in time. Excellent.

[Neags23]

Originally Posted by DougWyatt

Maybe I'm not following, but it seems fairly easy to me to get what you want.
If you notice you can "View" the stats you want (AVG, HR, RBI + others), as well as your specific lineup.

1. Batting Stats 1 View (changeable just above the batters in "View")
2. Lineup vs LHP w DH (changeable with #4)
3. Split (vs. Left - changeable under the "Split" tab on the same line as "View")
* Of note, notice that only my starters vs. LHPw/DH are highlighted in green.


Now, you have your lineup at the bottom - and you simply have to look up

Is that what you are looking for, or did I not understand correctly ?

I don't think you're understanding it quite correctly. The stats should be adjacent to the lineup instead of looking up and down, like Sirhawk is saying. It's extra work to look up and down back and forth to see stats for your lineup. We're referring to something like this (excuse the crude mockup):



This allows you to immediately see what you want. This method, though, takes away the depth chart, which is what the vast majority it seems like did not want to happen. So, something that could make everyone happy would be something like this, with the circled buttons being something like "Lineup vs. xxx":




Get it?

[Poleaxe]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

1.)
2.) I changed the lineup page because 95% of the beta team was in favor of the change and wanted the depth charts & lineups on a single screen.

And they were right, but this doesn't mean that having starting LU stats isn't also desirable. The fix is to be able to toggle between depth chart as it is in 2007 and stats as it was in 2006.

If that is too difficult, we should at least be able to filter for starting LU to make it easier to isolate on their stats.

[endgame]

This may sound or be too simplistic, but for me the only addition that would mark any real improvement on the existing screen would be to have the line highlighted in the 'other' screen when examining a specific player. A colored line indicator like the message screen index would be sufficient for me, and even that isn't necessary, only more convenient.

[fauteuil7]

Originally Posted by billethius

Wouldn't a guy in your starting lineup also be listed as the starter in your depth chart?

Not if your first inclination is to ignore the depth charts. I didn't use depth charts in 2006, I just set my lineups and sat anyone who needed to be rested from the pre-game screen. Try it out - change your leadoff man with a guy on the bench who isn't in your depth chart and you'll see that he's not highlighted in the stat portion of the screen. So this change took away information from its most useful (and usual, all the way back to Hardball, like I said) spot AND makes you use depth charts just to make it somewhat easier to see your starting lineup's stats.

The starting lineup stat filter sounds like a good solution, so long as there's a value returned for players who are not in the starting lineup, a 0 or B or something so they don't get filtered out, just listed after those in the lineup. And it goes without saying that this filter would list players in the lineup, regardless of whether they are in your depth charts.

On that note, it'd be cool to be able to keep track of stats according to where a player batted in the lineup. I know it's not sabermetric and all that, but it's always fun when it's brought up in a broadcast that someone hits much better in the five spot rather than the three spot or whatever, and if lineup spot is introduced as a variable the program should be able to track it, right?

[Curtis]

Originally Posted by Ambermonk

The problem would be adequately solved if there existed a "Current Lineup" filter that would display only the players that were listed in the selected lineup below. Then it would be reasonably simple to compare stats and fine-tune the lineup. What do you guys think?

I think it's a great idea.

Originally Posted by fauteuil7

It'd be cool to be able to keep track of stats according to where a player batted in the lineup. I know it's not sabermetric and all that, but it's always fun when it's brought up in a broadcast that someone hits much better in the five spot rather than the three spot or whatever, and if lineup spot is introduced as a variable the program should be able to track it, right?

In the last version of Start-O-Matic that I played, one of the stat printout options at the end of the season was to do stats by position, in total and broken into vs. left and vs. right, but not by player. That way you could tell how the aggregate of your leadoff hitters did, for instance. I thought it was cool, but it usually depressed me, since my hitting was… less than stellar.

[Althius]

I too would like to comment that as someone who spends a lot of time tweaking his lineups, that not being able to see the stats adj. to the players is quite a fustration.

Especially given that I have to reset my lineups every week when the compy resets my lineups.