The Boston Redsox Thread

[mh2365]

I have a feeling as long as Wakefield is contributing, Doug will have a job.

[Vris]

I can't find a link, but I have heard that the Sox are extremely close to signing Clemens. Can anyone confirm this?

[Joshv02]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Except when he doesn't. I just don't see how JD Drew benefitted from sitting out a year. I mean, I can definitely see how Boras benefitted in that he was then able to leverage Drew's situation onto all the other draft picks he represented - no longer was "I refuse to sign" just an idle threat. But an agent ought not to be operating in some overall gestalt best interest for all his clients all the time. He ought to be narrowly operating in the best interests of that one guy he's negotiating for and that guy only.

My issue here isn't so much that Boras is highballing the Sox, or that he doesn't want them to consider the sunk cost of the payout to the Lions, it's that from what I've read he's refused to negotiate, period.

And if he doesn't sign, all the parties are kind of screwed except for Scott Boras. I have nothing against agents, I just think Boras is horrible.

I don't know why you think JD Drew didn't think it was in his best interest to do what he did. If he agreed, then who cares? Boras represents his people, and he general gets them above market contracts. Other than Matt Harrington, who isn't really his responsibility, I can't see where he clearly hurt someone. And, even if he did hurt them, so what? Being right isn't a prerequisite to doing a good job. If Harrington made informed decisions (and he must have, as he did it 4 or 5 times) then that is his choice.

Boras takes risk, but by and large, those risks pay off.

[thehatfield]

Originally Posted by Vris

I can't find a link, but I have heard that the Sox are extremely close to signing Clemens. Can anyone confirm this?

Seriously?! Where'd you hear that, WEEI?

[Joshv02]

Originally Posted by Purple Cowboy

Seriously?! Where'd you hear that, WEEI?

There is a blog entry on the Houston Chronicle that says this is a possibility, but I've not heard anything else.

Also, people (yes, scary) spent part of the afternoon tracking JW Henry's plane as it crossed the US with Matsuzaka on board. You could see the prior flight plans were to go to Houston, TX, which fueled more speculation.

No, I wasn't particularly productive today.

[Lastplaneout]

Just saw this on mlbtraderumors.com:

http://www.boston.com/sports/basebal..._en_route.html

Apparently Boras is trying to sell the Red Sox on Chan Ho Park as a closer. I actually like the idea provided we can get him to sign a short-term incentive-based contract. If nothing else, he could be the swing man that Julian Tavarez was at the end of last season.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Lastplaneout

Just saw this on mlbtraderumors.com:

http://www.boston.com/sports/basebal..._en_route.html

Apparently Boras is trying to sell the Red Sox on Chan Ho Park as a closer. I actually like the idea provided we can get him to sign a short-term incentive-based contract. If nothing else, he could be the swing man that Julian Tavarez was at the end of last season.

IMO Chan Ho Park is weak minded and would not be a good closer. I would probably go as far as saying BY Kim is mentally tougher then Park. Park has a history of showing great stuff but yet couldnt live up to the pressures of a big contract and he has been a consistent underachiver. I cant see this being a smart move at all for the sox.

[Vris]

Originally Posted by Joshv02

There is a blog entry on the Houston Chronicle that says this is a possibility, but I've not heard anything else.

Also, people (yes, scary) spent part of the afternoon tracking JW Henry's plane as it crossed the US with Matsuzaka on board. You could see the prior flight plans were to go to Houston, TX, which fueled more speculation.

No, I wasn't particularly productive today.

Ding! That's where I saw it.

Don't worry Josh; that's all we did for the past 3 hours at work as well.

[Lastplaneout]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

IMO Chan Ho Park is weak minded and would not be a good closer. I would probably go as far as saying BY Kim is mentally tougher then Park. Park has a history of showing great stuff but yet couldnt live up to the pressures of a big contract and he has been a consistent underachiver. I cant see this being a smart move at all for the sox.

I'll take a guy with great stuff over a guy with mental toughness any day of the week.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Lastplaneout

I'll take a guy with great stuff over a guy with mental toughness any day of the week.

Im sure you would...

I'll take Trevor Hoffman and Curt Schilling you can have Armando Benitez and Josh Beckett then

[Lastplaneout]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I'll take Trevor Hoffman and Curt Schilling you can have Armando Benitez and Josh Beckett then

Armando Benitez is actually a fantastic example of a guy who has the demonstrated ability to function in high-leverage situations (mental toughness if you will) who tanked rapidly after losing his stuff (i.e. the ability to strike out 1.5 batters per inning).

[QuestGAV]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Im sure you would...

I'll take Trevor Hoffman and Curt Schilling you can have Armando Benitez and Josh Beckett then

I'll be Lastplanetout's bench coach if we can take notorious playoff underperformers like Roger Clemens, Brad Lidge, Barry Bonds, and Alex Rodriguez also. You can have Reggie Jackson and Derek Jeter. Game on!

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Lastplaneout

Armando Benitez is actually a fantastic example of a guy who has the demonstrated ability to function in high-leverage situations (mental toughness if you will) who tanked rapidly after losing his stuff (i.e. the ability to strike out 1.5 batters per inning).

So what exactly are you saying?

From the previous examples it seems that you would be more inclined to take a chance on electric stuff underachievers(Park) over solid mentally tough performers that get it done under w/o great stuff under any circumstances(Hoffman)

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by QuestGAV

I'll be Lastplanetout's bench coach if we can take notorious playoff underperformers like Roger Clemens, Brad Lidge, Barry Bonds, and Alex Rodriguez also. You can have Reggie Jackson and Derek Jeter. Game on!

Cool!
Kind of off topic I'm sure your team would do fine....

Why do I get Jackson and Jeter? I have a good start to a team, do I get to pick more players or is this going to be a 4 on 2 game where you get 2 pitchers? I havent said anything about them nor did I say anything about the playoffs?

You might have to explain. Are you trying to say that mental toughness=playoff success? I would probably agree to an extent.

[Lastplaneout]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

So what exactly are you saying?

From the previous examples it seems that you would be more inclined to take a chance on electric stuff underachievers(Park) over solid mentally tough performers that get it done under any circumstances(Hoffman)

Exactly. Benitez clearly had the "mental toughness" to handle closing (look at his 1999 season), but completely lost his effectiveness as a closer once he lost his "stuff". No amount of "mental toughness" could save him once his K rate got cut in half.

[jbergey22]

In all honesty I would call Clemens and Bonds two of the most mentally tough players that have ever played the game so that doesnt really fit into my example.

[Lastplaneout]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

In all honesty I would call Clemens and Bonds two of the most juiced players that have ever played the game so that doesnt really fit into my example.

Fixed that for ya.

Couldn't resist.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Lastplaneout

Exactly. Benitez clearly had the "mental toughness" to handle closing (look at his 1999 season), but completely lost his effectiveness as a closer once he lost his "stuff". No amount of "mental toughness" could save him once his K rate got cut in half.

Well hopefully we can agree to disagree on the Benitez topic. I would never want him as my closer in any situation even when he was on the top of his game. I am taking a guess and saying even when he was in his top form he wasnt one of the top 10-15 closers in save %. His numbers looked good because he could come in a game up 3 runs, walk 2 batters and strikeout 2 batters and get the save. Hoffman was never able to hold Benitez's jockstrap in the "stuff" dept but he has always been a much better closer.

[Lastplaneout]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Well hopefully we can agree to disagree on the Benitez topic. I would never want him as my closer in any situation even when he was on the top of his game. I am taking a guess and saying even when he was in his top form he wasnt one of the top 10-15 closers in save %. His numbers looked good because he could come in a game up 3 runs, walk 2 batters and strikeout 2 batters and get the save. Hoffman was never able to hold Benitez's jockstrap in the "stuff" dept but he has always been a much better closer.

What I'm trying get across is that "stuff" is something that can be analyzed (at least qualitatively), whereas "mental toughness" is really a pretty nebulous concept. Physical prowess is always going to be a better predictor of success than mental prowess (if for no other reason than the fact that it can be measured pseudo-objectively).

The players that you are describing as mentally tough are also some of the most physically gifted athletes in the game. Can you name a successful player who is mentally tough, but has crappy athletic ability?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Lastplaneout

What I'm trying get across is that "stuff" is something that can be analyzed (at least qualitatively), whereas "mental toughness" is really a pretty nebulous concept. Physical prowess is always going to be a better predictor of success than mental prowess (if for no other reason than the fact that it can be measured pseudo-objectively).

The players that you are describing as mentally tough are also some of the most physically gifted athletes in the game. Can you name a successful player who is mentally tough, but has crappy athletic ability?

Well thats not an easy question to answer because you must have talent to be in the Major Leagues. Id probably say Eckstein, Jamie Moyer are a couple of examples of players getting by on mentall toughness. I do understand your point in this debate, I am just to aware of the pathetic last 5 seasons of Chan Ho Parks career and I think the Red Sox would make a huge mistake in trying to make him a closer.