Basic Game-Flow - Worth Pursuing?

endgame · 11-15-2006, 01:33 PM

Looking for reaction to a basic idea that might be of benefit, particularly to that quiet contingency of players who aren’t quite sure what question it is they’re actually seeking to have answered.

Couple the new interface with the many new dimensions to the game (and those coming), and a fair number of players admit being “lost” or unable to articulate why the game does not feel like it used to, but can’t quite pinpoint the cause.

Perhaps that void can be attributed to either lack of experience – a function of time or the inability of the game to inspire ambition to invest time OR lack of guidance – while the manual addresses explanations, it contains no effective supplement offering a direction or suggestion for play.

At best, this is early brainstorming for v2007. It seems the game could use the presence of simple Style of Play Routines (working term). Maybe gather a collective, representative assortment of basic playing “styles”: annual simulation, monthly sim, play out every game, one-week sim, season sim/play-out playoffs, etc…, online leauges would likely have their own internal ordered procedures outside this scope. Then look to solicit basic and general routines or protocols of play from people who represent those styles. Nothing strategic or in-depth, no detailed explanation of each step: just a basic primer of scheduled activities for basic playing styles: do this, then that, then this, at the end of the month this, off-season this, etc…

Maybe then, the player with that inexplicable “I don’t know what’s going on” feeling would have basic information (I’m reminded of short-cut cards or D&D Player Screens) that have the bare bones skeleton of game-flow according to specific style or character. I’d expect, after developing experience in that framework, the player would quickly modify or discover his own preferences and, in the process, become more accustomed to the game. At least it's a provision that allows quicker access to decision-making. Call them Cheat-Sheets, Game-Flow Charts, whatever, that wanderers (like I have often been) could use as waypoints leading them to game-play, going beyond Quick Starts given it's provided by people with similar playing styles.

Your thoughts are welcome, yay or nay. It seems almost insignificant on the surface, but it might prove a welcome addition, or pre-cursor, to the release of v2007 for many who simply do not know “how to play” the game with confidence. Thanks for the initial overview. Looking forward to feedback.

The links below provide some early discussions about routine and protocol, the jist of my inquiry here. If you're inclined, take the time review these early seeds:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...utine+protocol

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...utine+protocol

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...68&postcount=7

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...highlight=solo

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...highlight=solo
---see OP and specifically the kind of response offered by jmm8356 (one of my favorite vanished posters)

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...highlight=solo

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...highlight=solo

Bluenoser · 11-15-2006, 04:17 PM

Are you talking about having something implemented into the game or a quick reference at your side like a small notebook you can flip through?

1998 Yankees · 11-15-2006, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endgame

Looking for reaction to a basic idea that might be of benefit, particularly to that quiet contingency of players who aren’t quite sure what question it is they’re actually seeking to have answered.

Couple the new interface with the many new dimensions to the game (and those coming), and a fair number of players admit being “lost” or unable to articulate why the game does not feel like it used to, but can’t quite pinpoint the cause.

endgame, these two paragraphs resonate with me. I was just thinking the same thing again last night. I believe it's just a matter of designing a better layout and game flow/routine and of making things like the almanac more accessible and user-friendly. However, I want to read your post more in depth before I vote or comment any further. Thanks for your usual quality effort in helping to improve OOTPB.

endgame · 11-15-2006, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceM

Are you talking about having something implemented into the game or a quick reference at your side like a small notebook you can flip through?

No, nothing in game BruceM. Just something that would be collectively assembled from the community and maybe be made available in a small spreadsheet or the like. Framework and formulation is all open to discussion.

And thanks for the nod, Yank.

Bluenoser · 11-15-2006, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endgame

No, nothing in game BruceM. Just something that would be collectively assembled from the community and maybe be made available in a small spreadsheet or the like. Framework and formulation is all open to discussion.

And thanks for the nod, Yank.

Sounds good to me - I voted Yes

Twelvefield · 11-15-2006, 09:28 PM

It's the kind of thing that sounds great if I don't have to do all of the grunt work. I would love to see this in operation, though.

ctorg · 11-16-2006, 07:00 AM

This is a great idea that would be immeasurably helpful, particularly to newcomers. This game has a very steep learning curve that probably keeps a lot of people away from it. This wouldn't require much individual effort from members of the community, but it we could all put a bit into this, it would result - I think - in something very beneficial and interesting.

Really, this is the sort of thing these forums are here for.

No Pepper · 11-16-2006, 07:59 AM

I agree. I felt TigerFan's and BruceM's stickied posts in the "Historical Simulations" forum have provided this "game flow" guideline that at least got me and quite a few others pointed in the right direction. Both threads have over 5,000 views each.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=121384
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=120806

Eugene Church does a good job in taking us through the creation of his solo league. It's clear that whatever clarity one can expect to get, it's going to come from the community in some form or another.

1998 Yankees · 11-16-2006, 11:31 AM

endgame, I waited until I had the time to give your posting the attention that it deserves, without distractions or interruptions. In other words, until I came back to work this morning.

I read your post again and skimmed through the linked threads. Of course I would vote "yes" for pursuing the idea further, because it is hardly "a waste of time" nor would I say that I "could care less." This is a rigged, bogus poll!

Seriously, your proposal merits consideration. Again, I would like to echo your statement about "the game does not feel like it used to [and I] can’t quite pinpoint the cause." For me, "like it used to" refers only to OOTPB 6.12/6.5, but the feeling is the same. Please don't get me wrong; I love this game. I've been playing OOTPB 2006 for months, holding my attention and taking up more of my leisure time than any other baseball simulation game that I have ever played, including 6.12/6.5. Yet, at the same time I feel less immersed than previously, despite all the new features. Sounds strange, eh?

As I said before, it may be just a matter of designing a better layout and game flow/routine and of making things like the almanac more accessible and user-friendly. I am looking forward to improvements in 2007 along these lines.

Also, reading through those linked threads that you provided, I found a number of suggestions that I think are important for improving game playing satisfaction:

Keep it simple. Cut back from a "universe" to a smaller game in which you can get to "know" the players and teams and follow their fortunes easier. I have reduced my game from the entire unwieldy universe that comes with the game to just MLB and I am thinking of trimming the minor leagues down to just four affiliates instead of six for this reason.
Slow down, sim less, watch and play more games. Unless you are just into producing statistics, simming months or years at a time while maintaining a lofty vantage point causes one to miss some of the satisfactions that the game has to offer.
Keep team and player notes. Print reports and examine them. Do an analysis of the league, team by team, at season end. Note the progress of teams up and down the standings and determine what is happening and why.
Spice up the game with modifications available: logos, stadiums, face packs. As one person said, "People do such excellent work (and are so nice about sharing it) that I began stealing various art work for my league. I was surprised by how much it’s made my league come to life." What he said.

endgame, as far as your specific proposal, I don't think scripted in-game routines designed to enhance game play would work because people develop their own styles of play and routines as they become familiar with the game, based on how much they want to get into it and get out of it.

That's not to say that the game could not be improved by the inclusion of tutorials and wizards. I think it would, but I would rather SI devote limited time and resources to other desperately wanted and needed improvements, at least for 2007.

I hate to give battists more work to do, but I believe his lawn cutting days are over for a while so maybe he would have the time now. So, I would like to propose that your idea of "a basic primer of scheduled activities for basic playing styles" be included instead in a future version of the OOTPB Game Guide.

Go Tribe · 11-16-2006, 11:51 AM

I still believe a main portal screen would benefit everyone. Kinda like a What would you like to do today screen with buttons like "set my lineup", "check out the standings", "make a trade", etc. honestly how hard with this be to add even to ootpbb 2006??? (i'm actually looking for an answer to that question too please). Do you think that something like that would help people from getting lost???

thanks

Eugene Church · 11-16-2006, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Also, reading through those linked threads that you provided, I found a number of suggestions that I think are important for improving game playing satisfaction:

Keep it simple. Cut back from a "universe" to a smaller game in which you can get to "know" the players and teams and follow their fortunes easier. I have reduced my game from the entire unwieldy universe that comes with the game to just MLB and I am thinking of trimming the minor leagues down to just four affiliates instead of six for this reason.
Slow down, sim less, watch and play more games. Unless you are just into producing statistics, simming months or years at a time while maintaining a lofty vantage point causes one to miss some of the satisfactions that the game has to offer.
Keep team and player notes. Print reports and examine them. Do an analysis of the league, team by team, at season end. Note the progress of teams up and down the standings and determine what is happening and why.
Spice up the game with modifications available: logos, stadiums, face packs. As one person said, "People do such excellent work (and are so nice about sharing it) that I began stealing various art work for my league. I was surprised by how much it’s made my league come to life." What he said.

endgame, as far as your specific proposal, I don't think scripted in-game routines designed to enhance game play would work because people develop their own styles of play and routines as they become familiar with the game, based on how much they want to get into it and get out of it.

endgame, a Sticky for setting up a league and how to enjoy it would be great. I have learned what I know about OOTPB from the great people on this forum. While the V2007 manual by battists is a tremendous work on his part and was very helpful to me, it still is not sufficient to really refine the game and get it the way we each want it.

Great List, 1998 Yankees.

Here are my suggestions...keep in mind I only play solo and control all league teams...no financials, scouts, managers, coaches...I play a weird type of OOTPB.

Keep your league small...12-20 teams...otherwise you will work yourself to death and get burned out...and you won't really know the players on all the teams.

Don't use the minors...they are just not realistic in the game...promotions are based on draft position and not performance.

Don't use financials...it makes the game easier to play...money has ruined baseball...50 Million Dollars just to get the right to negotiate with a player is absurd.

Don't use managers, coaches and scouts...it makes the game easier to play.

I have a 16-team historical league using MLB's original franchises...each team is composed of a franchise's alltime allstars. This is my alltime favorite league. I play it using 6.5 because I did not want to lose the 4-year history. I cover it in the Dynasty Report and really get enjoyment out it. It was hard setting it up, but now all I do is play games. The league just about runs itself.

Play out at least the last three innings of every league game...not just your team's game. For the first six innings, sim it inning-by-inning and jump in when you think the AI is going to make a pitching change. That way you can control the subs. It is during the last three innings that the AI begins to really substitute players...I like to make my own lineup and pitching changes. You can also use your starters in relief in crucial games, too. The AI never does this.

Install logos, photopacks (even for fictional players) and stadiums. They can make a league really special and make it come alive. Take the time to create different types of parks...hitter's park...pitcher's park.

Get a good schedule that is realistic...do it yourself if necessary...schedule doubleheaders...it adds another great strategy dimension to the game. Many times a team will have to use second line pitchers because the regular starters are tired and not available.

Post a Dynasty Report on the Dynasty Forum where you can cover your league in detail and share it with others. You will really get to know every player and every team.

ctorg · 11-17-2006, 08:19 AM

So what are the different types of players, particularly for solo play (since there is much more limitation for online play)? Here's a list. Each of these could be broken down into "fast-paced" and slow-paced styles, with fast-paced being those who concentrate more on macro-levels and sim most games, playing as much as a season or more per day. Slow-paced players would be more micro-focused and probably go a day at a time.

Commissioner players Fast paced players would be those who set up leagues and let them fly a month, a year, or several years at a time, making only macro-level changes, and don't pick a team to control. Slow-paced commissioner players, basically like Eugene above, who set up very detailed leagues and pay close attention to the smaller parts of the game.

Dynasty players, who pick a team and try to win with it and stick with that team through thick and thin. There would be an important division here between those who concentrate mostly or entirely on team maintenance rather than universe related stuff and those who don't. For example, one person might set up a very standard modern day league and adjust nothing, and leave it that way ad infinitum, while another might have a very specific sort of plan for a league (or a team), with a story behind it. Either way, dynasty players would be characterized by an emphasis on one particular team that they stick with and a concentration on that team (while letting the AI handle other teams).

Experimental players would be those who go with creative or unusual league ideas. This can combine with other styles to a degree, but for these players it's all about the experiment. I've seen people start prison-based leagues, little leagues, and other things that the game isn't really designed to handle. These people push the limits of what the game can do and are usually the ones who find the most glitches/limits on the game because of that. These players are characterized by this being the main way they derive fun from playing.

Managerial players are those who basically play the part of a manager or general manager. They will pick one team at a time and concentrate on it, but that team may change. I believe the game is set up for this to be the default style of play, even though it's probably not the most popular one. You can be hired and fired. You apply for jobs and work your way up.

I'm sure there are many other styles of play that are common. What are some that are distinct from these ones (or subcategories of them)?

DreamTeams · 11-17-2006, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctorg

So what are the different types of players, particularly for solo play (since there is much more limitation for online play)? Here's a list. Each of these could be broken down into "fast-paced" and slow-paced styles, with fast-paced being those who concentrate more on macro-levels and sim most games, playing as much as a season or more per day. Slow-paced players would be more micro-focused and probably go a day at a time.

Commissioner players Fast paced players would be those who set up leagues and let them fly a month, a year, or several years at a time, making only macro-level changes, and don't pick a team to control. Slow-paced commissioner players, basically like Eugene above, who set up very detailed leagues and pay close attention to the smaller parts of the game.

Dynasty players, who pick a team and try to win with it and stick with that team through thick and thin. There would be an important division here between those who concentrate mostly or entirely on team maintenance rather than universe related stuff and those who don't. For example, one person might set up a very standard modern day league and adjust nothing, and leave it that way ad infinitum, while another might have a very specific sort of plan for a league (or a team), with a story behind it. Either way, dynasty players would be characterized by an emphasis on one particular team that they stick with and a concentration on that team (while letting the AI handle other teams).

Experimental players would be those who go with creative or unusual league ideas. This can combine with other styles to a degree, but for these players it's all about the experiment. I've seen people start prison-based leagues, little leagues, and other things that the game isn't really designed to handle. These people push the limits of what the game can do and are usually the ones who find the most glitches/limits on the game because of that. These players are characterized by this being the main way they derive fun from playing.

Managerial players are those who basically play the part of a manager or general manager. They will pick one team at a time and concentrate on it, but that team may change. I believe the game is set up for this to be the default style of play, even though it's probably not the most popular one. You can be hired and fired. You apply for jobs and work your way up.

I'm sure there are many other styles of play that are common. What are some that are distinct from these ones (or subcategories of them)?

Here's another style:

God-mode players are those who love to create their style of league but control no teams. They use the game's editing and custom features extensively. The league can be ML based or fictional based. Unlike commissioner mode they don't see themselves as league commissioners. Instead, they basically watch from a fan (or bird’s eye) perspective and often let the chips fall where they may. However, some god-mode players like to create different types of fictional players and then drop them into the league to see how they impact things. But, there are variations. Some are fast simmers, others are slow simmers. Some watch games, others just sim games.

I fall under the god-mode player who loves to create fictional players and drop them into the league for some instant excitement.

ctorg · 11-17-2006, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamTeams

Here's another style:

God-mode players are those who love to create their style of league but control no teams. They use the game's editing and custom features extensively. The league can be ML based or fictional based. Unlike commissioner mode they don't see themselves as league commissioners. Instead, they basically watch from a fan (or bird’s eye) perspective and often let the chips fall where they may. However, some god-mode players like to create different types of fictional players and then drop them into the league to see how they impact things. But, there are variations. Some are fast simmers, others are slow simmers. Some watch games, others just sim games.

I fall under the god-mode player who loves to create fictional players and drop them into the league for some instant excitement.

Seems like god-mode and commissioner players should be subcategories of something else. It's like one is a Greek god mode and the other is a deist god mode.

albatross11 · 11-17-2006, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamTeams

Here's another style:

God-mode players are those who love to create their style of league but control no teams. They use the game's editing and custom features extensively. The league can be ML based or fictional based. Unlike commissioner mode they don't see themselves as league commissioners. Instead, they basically watch from a fan (or bird’s eye) perspective and often let the chips fall where they may. However, some god-mode players like to create different types of fictional players and then drop them into the league to see how they impact things. But, there are variations. Some are fast simmers, others are slow simmers. Some watch games, others just sim games.

I fall under the god-mode player who loves to create fictional players and drop them into the league for some instant excitement.

I think this poll is a good idea. At the least it gives the developement team some additional input (like they need that

).
My style of play seems to be a hybrid of DreamTeams and Eugene Church. I set up a fictional league, no scouts, no managers, no coaches, no financials (same reason as EC). I use the editing features often and liberally (like Dreamateams). I don't control any one team, but play out each game, managing one series at a time, team by team. I have a 32 team league with 4 levels of minors. I read every box score (and most game logs) after every game. I have no problems with players from "strange" countries. After all, I'm using a fictional country and am not trying to replicate RL MLB at all. Using this style of play (for me alone, I speak), it's very easy to get deeply immersed in my league.

ctorg · 11-17-2006, 02:20 PM

What might be good is to have suggested styles of play for each of these types that can be grouped into Beginner, Intermediate, and Advanced levels. Beginner would be the basics. How to set up a league for the particular type and get the schedule to work right and the league totals worked out and get faces to display and all that (or maybe some of that is intermediate - it's hard to tell for me at this point). Intermediate, by my reckoning, might include things like how to play around with some of the financial settings, the nations.txt file, the name files, and some things like that. Or maybe that's part of advanced. I'm not the best one to sort them because I've been playing OOTP for years. Anyway, my idea of advanced would include things like how to get things into Access databases, etc.

That's probably a skewed idea of what's at each of those levels, but the concept, I think, is good.

Curtis · 11-17-2006, 05:12 PM

I would put face tools and playing with downloadable rosters in intermediate, since they're far beyond my poor abilities, but for me financials are a fun (though sometimes frustrating) introductory level feature.

I just sat down last night and worked my way through the financials in my Federal League, and I THINK I have them just where I want them now. The average team made a profit of 1.6 million the season before the league starts, with nine out of twenty teams posting losses, and is projected to to make an additional 2.15 million this year. With the league average player salary hovering around 1.4 million, owners aren't going into this game to get rich, and hopefully salaries won't be shooting into the stratosphere very soon.

endgame · 11-23-2006, 12:20 PM

I think the idea has some merit, but has run its course as goes evolution into any sustained project. With approaching 500 views and less than 30 actual votes - even less direct discussion - I think this idea might be best served as a reference thread for even the smallest contributions. Some initial fine ideas by ctorg and others that further define conceptions that might help someone get a better idea of what to do when other than, as I've done, simply go through the tabs awaiting that spark of direction that says, "Yeah, do this."

Not that this is a template of any sort, but here's one of my earlier notes in pre-season. It's simple, yet may contribute to someone's routine during that phase. I play strictly solo/fictional and try to play out all my games. I guess that makes me Manager Style.

_______________________________________
Check Major League Transactions daily to examine waiver assignments.

Follow up with a Waiver Wire look to ensure you didn't miss any potential Shortlist candidates.

Look at all Trade acquistions. Why did they want him? Is he worth going on the Shortlist?

4-6 days per scout (semi-reliable and better) to Quick-Scout Major League level teams in my division. Focus on Hitting scouts. Note players that may be prone to do much better against one hand or the other, taking time for my own division if not others in my league.

Week ahead of a scheduled series, try to get a quick scout on key players of opposition: expected big hitters and expected first couple of starters (Note: I'd still like to see the schedule accurately project starters!)

Every 1-2 weeks evaluate what I call Injury Depth chart. If a backup may have to move into a starting role, what kind of depth do I have in the minor or reserve ranks? Last minute emergency FA acquistions are usually a bust. Plan ahead. I note some of my AAA'ers at this point (on a spreadsheet I use just for roster notes) as PCI: Promotable in Case of Injury.
________________________________________

Just some scratches I had on a piece of paper from a couple of night's play and only an hour or two of actual time spent in front of the game (about a week and a half of actual pre-season game time in this instance).

Maybe if we, on occasion, simply provide a small recap of what tasks we did on a given day or night (real time), indicated our mode of play, then anyone checking the thread could assimilate whatever might be missing into their own checklist if they use, or want, to develop one. Better a little hit and miss than not swinging at all, I think.

1998 Yankees · 11-23-2006, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endgame

With approaching 500 views and less than 30 actual votes - even less direct discussion - I think this idea might be best served as a reference thread for even the smallest contributions.

I wouldn't fret on that score, endgame. From what I can gather, this is a lull time of year on these boards, and to have 500 views and 30 members voting is not too shabby.

Your threads and posts, and the participation of many others in these forums, accomplishes your purpose in this thread, I think. Anyone who comes here consistently will pick up tips and pointers and will assimilate them into their game play styles in his or her own way.

Your partial list above, for example, reminds me or points me in the right direction about several things.

First, I should yellow sticker post-it-to-my-screen the advice to FREQUENTLY CHECK THE WAIVER WIRE!

Also, your injury depth chart idea is a good one; I've been caught in that situation where you had a great depth chart at the ML level but an injury occurs and now you have no backup at AAA. THIS is the time that I will check the waiver wire and find nobody, of course, and there are no good FA's available either. I should have stocked some people at AAA ahead of time, decent backups in case of emergency.

Monitoring ML transactions is something that I have not been doing but should and will to enhance my immersion in the game as well as to learn a thing or two about what other teams are doing and what interesting players are involved. My shortlist currently consists of "my (former) guys" whom I am tracking to see how they do, or players that I traded away to see if I was smart or not. I should be using it to track prospects as well.

So, you see, you accomplish your purpose just by participating here, endgame.

darkenigma510 · 11-23-2006, 04:41 PM

One other thing I like to do is run multiple leagues, but not at the same time. I generally one a season in one league (or if fast simming, maybe five years), then go into an "off season" where I play out another dynasty. I tend to like this because I think an "offseason" is good for a dynasty to keep from getting burnt out on it. I find myself very interested in the league once I return to it, similar to how I jones for baseball on Opening day.

View Poll Results: Idea worth pursuing?
Yeah, it might do some good.	27	81.82%
No, probably a waste of time.	1	3.03%
Really could care less.	5	15.15%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

11-15-2006, 01:33 PM	#1
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 16,842	Basic Game-Flow - Worth Pursuing? Looking for reaction to a basic idea that might be of benefit, particularly to that quiet contingency of players who aren’t quite sure what question it is they’re actually seeking to have answered. Couple the new interface with the many new dimensions to the game (and those coming), and a fair number of players admit being “lost” or unable to articulate why the game does not feel like it used to, but can’t quite pinpoint the cause. Perhaps that void can be attributed to either lack of experience – a function of time or the inability of the game to inspire ambition to invest time OR lack of guidance – while the manual addresses explanations, it contains no effective supplement offering a direction or suggestion for play. At best, this is early brainstorming for v2007. It seems the game could use the presence of simple Style of Play Routines (working term). Maybe gather a collective, representative assortment of basic playing “styles”: annual simulation, monthly sim, play out every game, one-week sim, season sim/play-out playoffs, etc…, online leauges would likely have their own internal ordered procedures outside this scope. Then look to solicit basic and general routines or protocols of play from people who represent those styles. Nothing strategic or in-depth, no detailed explanation of each step: just a basic primer of scheduled activities for basic playing styles: do this, then that, then this, at the end of the month this, off-season this, etc… Maybe then, the player with that inexplicable “I don’t know what’s going on” feeling would have basic information (I’m reminded of short-cut cards or D&D Player Screens) that have the bare bones skeleton of game-flow according to specific style or character. I’d expect, after developing experience in that framework, the player would quickly modify or discover his own preferences and, in the process, become more accustomed to the game. At least it's a provision that allows quicker access to decision-making. Call them Cheat-Sheets, Game-Flow Charts, whatever, that wanderers (like I have often been) could use as waypoints leading them to game-play, going beyond Quick Starts given it's provided by people with similar playing styles. Your thoughts are welcome, yay or nay. It seems almost insignificant on the surface, but it might prove a welcome addition, or pre-cursor, to the release of v2007 for many who simply do not know “how to play” the game with confidence. Thanks for the initial overview. Looking forward to feedback. The links below provide some early discussions about routine and protocol, the jist of my inquiry here. If you're inclined, take the time review these early seeds: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...utine+protocol http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...utine+protocol http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...68&postcount=7 http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...highlight=solo http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...highlight=solo ---see OP and specifically the kind of response offered by jmm8356 (one of my favorite vanished posters) http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...highlight=solo http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...highlight=solo __________________ "Try again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett _____________________________________________

11-15-2006, 04:17 PM	#2
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 14,495	Are you talking about having something implemented into the game or a quick reference at your side like a small notebook you can flip through? Last edited by Bluenoser; 11-15-2006 at 05:20 PM.

11-16-2006, 07:00 AM	#7
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	This is a great idea that would be immeasurably helpful, particularly to newcomers. This game has a very steep learning curve that probably keeps a lot of people away from it. This wouldn't require much individual effort from members of the community, but it we could all put a bit into this, it would result - I think - in something very beneficial and interesting. Really, this is the sort of thing these forums are here for. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

11-16-2006, 07:59 AM	#8
No Pepper All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,570	I agree. I felt TigerFan's and BruceM's stickied posts in the "Historical Simulations" forum have provided this "game flow" guideline that at least got me and quite a few others pointed in the right direction. Both threads have over 5,000 views each. http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=121384 http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=120806 Eugene Church does a good job in taking us through the creation of his solo league. It's clear that whatever clarity one can expect to get, it's going to come from the community in some form or another. __________________ Uniforms compatible with OOTP23/24 Historical Major League Baseball 1901-current Historical Major League Baseball 1871-1900 Historical Federal League Historical Negro Leagues

11-15-2006, 09:28 PM	#6
Twelvefield All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,188	It's the kind of thing that sounds great if I don't have to do all of the grunt work. I would love to see this in operation, though.

11-16-2006, 11:31 AM	#9
1998 Yankees Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yankee Stadium, back in 1998. Posts: 8,645	endgame, I waited until I had the time to give your posting the attention that it deserves, without distractions or interruptions. In other words, until I came back to work this morning. I read your post again and skimmed through the linked threads. Of course I would vote "yes" for pursuing the idea further, because it is hardly "a waste of time" nor would I say that I "could care less." This is a rigged, bogus poll! Seriously, your proposal merits consideration. Again, I would like to echo your statement about "the game does not feel like it used to [and I] can’t quite pinpoint the cause." For me, "like it used to" refers only to OOTPB 6.12/6.5, but the feeling is the same. Please don't get me wrong; I love this game. I've been playing OOTPB 2006 for months, holding my attention and taking up more of my leisure time than any other baseball simulation game that I have ever played, including 6.12/6.5. Yet, at the same time I feel less immersed than previously, despite all the new features. Sounds strange, eh? As I said before, it may be just a matter of designing a better layout and game flow/routine and of making things like the almanac more accessible and user-friendly. I am looking forward to improvements in 2007 along these lines. Also, reading through those linked threads that you provided, I found a number of suggestions that I think are important for improving game playing satisfaction: Keep it simple. Cut back from a "universe" to a smaller game in which you can get to "know" the players and teams and follow their fortunes easier. I have reduced my game from the entire unwieldy universe that comes with the game to just MLB and I am thinking of trimming the minor leagues down to just four affiliates instead of six for this reason. Slow down, sim less, watch and play more games. Unless you are just into producing statistics, simming months or years at a time while maintaining a lofty vantage point causes one to miss some of the satisfactions that the game has to offer. Keep team and player notes. Print reports and examine them. Do an analysis of the league, team by team, at season end. Note the progress of teams up and down the standings and determine what is happening and why. Spice up the game with modifications available: logos, stadiums, face packs. As one person said, "People do such excellent work (and are so nice about sharing it) that I began stealing various art work for my league. I was surprised by how much it’s made my league come to life." What he said. endgame, as far as your specific proposal, I don't think scripted in-game routines designed to enhance game play would work because people develop their own styles of play and routines as they become familiar with the game, based on how much they want to get into it and get out of it. That's not to say that the game could not be improved by the inclusion of tutorials and wizards. I think it would, but I would rather SI devote limited time and resources to other desperately wanted and needed improvements, at least for 2007. I hate to give battists more work to do, but I believe his lawn cutting days are over for a while so maybe he would have the time now. So, I would like to propose that your idea of "a basic primer of scheduled activities for basic playing styles" be included instead in a future version of the OOTPB Game Guide. Last edited by 1998 Yankees; 11-16-2006 at 11:34 AM.

11-16-2006, 11:51 AM	#10
Go Tribe All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,534 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	I still believe a main portal screen would benefit everyone. Kinda like a What would you like to do today screen with buttons like "set my lineup", "check out the standings", "make a trade", etc. honestly how hard with this be to add even to ootpbb 2006??? (i'm actually looking for an answer to that question too please). Do you think that something like that would help people from getting lost??? thanks

11-17-2006, 08:19 AM	#12
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	So what are the different types of players, particularly for solo play (since there is much more limitation for online play)? Here's a list. Each of these could be broken down into "fast-paced" and slow-paced styles, with fast-paced being those who concentrate more on macro-levels and sim most games, playing as much as a season or more per day. Slow-paced players would be more micro-focused and probably go a day at a time. Commissioner players Fast paced players would be those who set up leagues and let them fly a month, a year, or several years at a time, making only macro-level changes, and don't pick a team to control. Slow-paced commissioner players, basically like Eugene above, who set up very detailed leagues and pay close attention to the smaller parts of the game. Dynasty players, who pick a team and try to win with it and stick with that team through thick and thin. There would be an important division here between those who concentrate mostly or entirely on team maintenance rather than universe related stuff and those who don't. For example, one person might set up a very standard modern day league and adjust nothing, and leave it that way ad infinitum, while another might have a very specific sort of plan for a league (or a team), with a story behind it. Either way, dynasty players would be characterized by an emphasis on one particular team that they stick with and a concentration on that team (while letting the AI handle other teams). Experimental players would be those who go with creative or unusual league ideas. This can combine with other styles to a degree, but for these players it's all about the experiment. I've seen people start prison-based leagues, little leagues, and other things that the game isn't really designed to handle. These people push the limits of what the game can do and are usually the ones who find the most glitches/limits on the game because of that. These players are characterized by this being the main way they derive fun from playing. Managerial players are those who basically play the part of a manager or general manager. They will pick one team at a time and concentrate on it, but that team may change. I believe the game is set up for this to be the default style of play, even though it's probably not the most popular one. You can be hired and fired. You apply for jobs and work your way up. I'm sure there are many other styles of play that are common. What are some that are distinct from these ones (or subcategories of them)? __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

11-17-2006, 02:20 PM	#16
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	What might be good is to have suggested styles of play for each of these types that can be grouped into Beginner, Intermediate, and Advanced levels. Beginner would be the basics. How to set up a league for the particular type and get the schedule to work right and the league totals worked out and get faces to display and all that (or maybe some of that is intermediate - it's hard to tell for me at this point). Intermediate, by my reckoning, might include things like how to play around with some of the financial settings, the nations.txt file, the name files, and some things like that. Or maybe that's part of advanced. I'm not the best one to sort them because I've been playing OOTP for years. Anyway, my idea of advanced would include things like how to get things into Access databases, etc. That's probably a skewed idea of what's at each of those levels, but the concept, I think, is good. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

11-17-2006, 05:12 PM	#17
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,567	I would put face tools and playing with downloadable rosters in intermediate, since they're far beyond my poor abilities, but for me financials are a fun (though sometimes frustrating) introductory level feature. I just sat down last night and worked my way through the financials in my Federal League, and I THINK I have them just where I want them now. The average team made a profit of 1.6 million the season before the league starts, with nine out of twenty teams posting losses, and is projected to to make an additional 2.15 million this year. With the league average player salary hovering around 1.4 million, owners aren't going into this game to get rich, and hopefully salaries won't be shooting into the stratosphere very soon.

11-23-2006, 12:20 PM	#18
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 16,842	Usefulness I think the idea has some merit, but has run its course as goes evolution into any sustained project. With approaching 500 views and less than 30 actual votes - even less direct discussion - I think this idea might be best served as a reference thread for even the smallest contributions. Some initial fine ideas by ctorg and others that further define conceptions that might help someone get a better idea of what to do when other than, as I've done, simply go through the tabs awaiting that spark of direction that says, "Yeah, do this." Not that this is a template of any sort, but here's one of my earlier notes in pre-season. It's simple, yet may contribute to someone's routine during that phase. I play strictly solo/fictional and try to play out all my games. I guess that makes me Manager Style. _______________________________________ Check Major League Transactions daily to examine waiver assignments. Follow up with a Waiver Wire look to ensure you didn't miss any potential Shortlist candidates. Look at all Trade acquistions. Why did they want him? Is he worth going on the Shortlist? 4-6 days per scout (semi-reliable and better) to Quick-Scout Major League level teams in my division. Focus on Hitting scouts. Note players that may be prone to do much better against one hand or the other, taking time for my own division if not others in my league. Week ahead of a scheduled series, try to get a quick scout on key players of opposition: expected big hitters and expected first couple of starters (Note: I'd still like to see the schedule accurately project starters!) Every 1-2 weeks evaluate what I call Injury Depth chart. If a backup may have to move into a starting role, what kind of depth do I have in the minor or reserve ranks? Last minute emergency FA acquistions are usually a bust. Plan ahead. I note some of my AAA'ers at this point (on a spreadsheet I use just for roster notes) as PCI: Promotable in Case of Injury. ________________________________________ Just some scratches I had on a piece of paper from a couple of night's play and only an hour or two of actual time spent in front of the game (about a week and a half of actual pre-season game time in this instance). Maybe if we, on occasion, simply provide a small recap of what tasks we did on a given day or night (real time), indicated our mode of play, then anyone checking the thread could assimilate whatever might be missing into their own checklist if they use, or want, to develop one. Better a little hit and miss than not swinging at all, I think. __________________ "Try again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett _____________________________________________ Last edited by endgame; 11-23-2006 at 01:06 PM.

11-23-2006, 04:41 PM	#20
darkenigma510 All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Wild West Posts: 1,353	One other thing I like to do is run multiple leagues, but not at the same time. I generally one a season in one league (or if fast simming, maybe five years), then go into an "off season" where I play out another dynasty. I tend to like this because I think an "offseason" is good for a dynasty to keep from getting burnt out on it. I find myself very interested in the league once I return to it, similar to how I jones for baseball on Opening day.