Your Hall of Fame Snub - Page 2

Syd Thrift · 10-15-2006, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

Dale Murphy, who was tremendous in a pitchers' era.

6 good but not Bondsy years probably isn't enough for the HOF. :2manypeopleinthehallalready:

Syd Thrift · 10-15-2006, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notjaxmagicman

Alan Trammel, that MVP in 87 he was robbed of would have made the difference

Trammell on the other hand... what is it about him and Sweet Lou that make them complete HOF outsiders? They were very solid players who played for 1 team their entire careers, they did get a lot of press while they were playing regarding being the longest tenured keystone combination in MLB history... but nary a sniff at the cheap boxed wine at the Hall of Fame. It's a darn rootin' tootin' shame.

Prodigal Son · 10-15-2006, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

6 good but not Bondsy years probably isn't enough for the HOF. :2manypeopleinthehallalready:

Yeah, there's a good argument either way (longevity vs. peak). BUT, his peak numbers are as good as they get for the era (not Bondsian, but besides Ruth, what player's peak was?). Murph led the league in RC four times.

He's the Terrell Davis of the MLB I suppose. But it's a personal favorite choice, since I love how he played great D in CF and laced up for 162 games four straight years, then 160, then 159...which probably shortened his career and hurt his rate stats, but was very important towards helping a team that didn't have much else to sell to the fans.

AnotherAlias · 10-15-2006, 06:46 PM

Ron Santo

The Professor · 10-15-2006, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

Yeah, there's a good argument either way (longevity vs. peak). BUT, his peak numbers are as good as they get for the era (not Bondsian, but besides Ruth, what player's peak was?). Murph led the league in RC four times.

He's the Terrell Davis of the MLB I suppose. But it's a personal favorite choice, since I love how he played great D in CF and laced up for 162 games four straight years, then 160, then 159...which probably shortened his career and hurt his rate stats, but was very important towards helping a team that didn't have much else to sell to the fans.

I love Murph. Back when I cut my baseball teeth watching lousy Braves teams play on TBS, his at-bats were the highlight of the game. His case, though, will always be borderline-out to me, though he would be one of the first (if not THE first) inducted into the Hall of Very Good (Briefly Great) Players and Great, Great, Guys

Bottom line: I don't think I could put him in the Hall of Fame today, but I wouldn't be terribly upset if he were go somehow get in.

Luis_Rivera · 10-15-2006, 06:52 PM

There's too much Jim Rice in this thread

RchW · 10-15-2006, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale And Eli's Dad

Buck by a large margin. I felt that way even before he died.

Agreed and the HOF should correct this mistake soon.

The Professor · 10-15-2006, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treedom

Kelly Gruber

Not before Rance Mulliniks!

Prodigal Son · 10-15-2006, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonzard

Is there a good era-adjusted analysis of him?

I don't think so. He's actually a case study in why I don't trust WARP, since they rate him right around 10 for MVP seasons when he posted the best offensive numbers in the game, played 162 games, and won GG in CF. Something's not quite right with that.

Jonzard · 10-15-2006, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

I don't think so. He's actually a case study in why I don't trust WARP, since they rate him right around 10 for MVP seasons when he posted the best offensive numbers in the game, played 162 games, and won GG in CF. Something's not quite right with that.

Maybe the numbers were misleading... and certainly a GG doesn't mean he earned it.

Prodigal Son · 10-15-2006, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonzard

Maybe the numbers were misleading... and certainly a GG doesn't mean he earned it.

Maybe. But that would be an odd WARP for even an average CF in even an offensive-minded era. I don't know; I'll trust what actually happened on the field over a proprietery, mysterious, contrived metricabout which I don't have confidence in era adjustments and defensive values.

KC · 10-15-2006, 08:57 PM

Alan Knicely.

He was a dominating force in MicroLeague. Seldom did he play a game in which he did not hit a homerun. Neither Hank Aaron or Barry Bonds could hold his jock strap.

jamus23 · 10-15-2006, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treedom

Kelly Gruber

For the hair?

mlyons · 10-15-2006, 09:01 PM

Dale Murphy's OPS+ was right around 150 during those six big seasons. For centerfield points of reference: Ken Griffey, Jr.'s five big seasons averaged around 160 and Bernie Williams ran around 147 during his six peak seasons. The gold standards, Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays, were around 190 and 170, respectively, during their peaks.

I have a tough time thinking of Williams in the HoF, and I can't really justify putting Murphy in without putting Williams in. I'm a small Hall guy, though.

Jason Moyer · 10-15-2006, 09:55 PM

Buck O'Neil
Ron Santo
Bert Blyleven
Will Clark
Don Mattingly

Pre-emptively: Tim Raines

ctorg · 10-16-2006, 07:55 AM

Blyleven is the biggest one right now, I think.

I'd also like to give pre-emptive props to Julio Franco. I know a lot of people would disagree with this, but I don't think the HOF should be a pure numbers game. I don't necessarily think it's "who was the best player" as much as "who made the biggest impact" or "who transcended stats to become somewhat mythical", at least in some cases. Franco has had a long and productive career and is showing that a guy who is nearly 50 can still play if he keeps himself in great condition. He's been an inspiration to other players, including Albert Pujols.

I'm not a big "intangibles" person when it comes to rating players' skills in the game, but I am when it comes to the Hall of Fame.

Cowboys3356 · 10-16-2006, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC

Alan Knicely.
Ted Williams: "When you inject your steriods, do you ever get a head rush like when you eat ice cream too fast?"
Mark McGwire: "All the time."

Enough said!

Lastplaneout · 10-16-2006, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctorg

I'd also like to give pre-emptive props to Julio Franco. I know a lot of people would disagree with this, but I don't think the HOF should be a pure numbers game. I don't necessarily think it's "who was the best player" as much as "who made the biggest impact" or "who transcended stats to become somewhat mythical", at least in some cases. Franco has had a long and productive career and is showing that a guy who is nearly 50 can still play if he keeps himself in great condition. He's been an inspiration to other players, including Albert Pujols.

I would be all for putting Julio Franco on the ballot with the assumption that he could never garner the votes to actually get in. What he's done is pretty amazing, just not hall-worthy.

darkhorse · 10-16-2006, 09:05 AM

Professional baseball's first great player, Ross Barnes.

Gastric ReFlux · 10-16-2006, 09:05 AM

Ron Santo

His stats are a bit on the borderline side, but I think he deserves a bit of what may be called leniency for the fact that he was a fine player at a time when treatment of type 1 diabetes was still rather crude. He probably would have been able to play at a higher level for a few years more and been able to maintain tighter control of his diabetes with the better understanding, monitoring and insulins of today.

10-15-2006, 08:57 PM	#32
KC Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: On my ass, you wanker. Now, sod off. Posts: 400	Alan Knicely. He was a dominating force in MicroLeague. Seldom did he play a game in which he did not hit a homerun. Neither Hank Aaron or Barry Bonds could hold his jock strap. __________________ KC Ted Williams: "When you foul a pitch off, does it ever smell like scorched wood?" Mark McGwire: "All the time."

10-15-2006, 09:01 PM	#34
mlyons Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 3,725	Dale Murphy's OPS+ was right around 150 during those six big seasons. For centerfield points of reference: Ken Griffey, Jr.'s five big seasons averaged around 160 and Bernie Williams ran around 147 during his six peak seasons. The gold standards, Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays, were around 190 and 170, respectively, during their peaks. I have a tough time thinking of Williams in the HoF, and I can't really justify putting Murphy in without putting Williams in. I'm a small Hall guy, though. __________________ Things can always be worse. Last edited by mlyons; 10-15-2006 at 09:03 PM.

10-15-2006, 09:55 PM	#35
Jason Moyer Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 5,106	Buck O'Neil Ron Santo Bert Blyleven Will Clark Don Mattingly Pre-emptively: Tim Raines __________________ "I pretty much popped everything cold turkey. We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses." -- Tom House "I was very fortunate to have a pitching coach by the name of Tom House...Tom, I really miss those days that we spent in the weight room and out on the field working together." -- Nolan Ryan's HoF Induction Speech

10-16-2006, 07:55 AM	#36
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	Blyleven is the biggest one right now, I think. I'd also like to give pre-emptive props to Julio Franco. I know a lot of people would disagree with this, but I don't think the HOF should be a pure numbers game. I don't necessarily think it's "who was the best player" as much as "who made the biggest impact" or "who transcended stats to become somewhat mythical", at least in some cases. Franco has had a long and productive career and is showing that a guy who is nearly 50 can still play if he keeps himself in great condition. He's been an inspiration to other players, including Albert Pujols. I'm not a big "intangibles" person when it comes to rating players' skills in the game, but I am when it comes to the Hall of Fame. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

10-16-2006, 09:05 AM	#39
darkhorse Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: fort worth, tx Posts: 10,850	Professional baseball's first great player, Ross Barnes. Attached Images

10-15-2006, 06:46 PM	#24
AnotherAlias Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I'm back...for now Posts: 4,190	Ron Santo

10-15-2006, 06:52 PM	#26
Luis_Rivera Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,177	There's too much Jim Rice in this thread

10-16-2006, 09:05 AM	#40
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	Ron Santo His stats are a bit on the borderline side, but I think he deserves a bit of what may be called leniency for the fact that he was a fine player at a time when treatment of type 1 diabetes was still rather crude. He probably would have been able to play at a higher level for a few years more and been able to maintain tighter control of his diabetes with the better understanding, monitoring and insulins of today.