MVP Winners

[Big Wil]

OK! Now I'm really confused.
My very next season,

Player A: (Team 90-72--3rd straight Div.--2nd straight championship)
28 HR 109 RBI .338 avg. Leads league SLG PCt(.574) & OPS (.960)

Player B: (Team 96-66--Division winner)
30 HR 126 RBI .299 AVG--Leads League in RBI's, XBH (81), and TB (343)

either of them would have been my choice for MVP. However there is Player C:

Player C (Team 82-80--8gms back in 3rd place)
26 HR 96 RBI .341 AVG (lead Lg) He also lead the league OBP(.418),RC/27 outs (8.01) and VORP (73.5)

I might not agree but I could see him being picked for MVP. But did the game pick him?

NOooooooo

Player D (Team 83-79 13 gms back in 2nd Place)
34 HR 120 RBI .286

Good numbers but he didn't lead in any statistical catagory. None. And his team was never in contention.

Could somebody explain to me how does the computer pick the MVP. I'm hoping this makes sense because I'm beginning to think my computer and the games A.I. have conspired to drive me even more crazy then I already am.

And thats a whole lot of crazy

[Charlie Hough]

Originally Posted by kq76

It seems that voters only considered HR, RBI, BA in awarding Dawson the MVP that year, something which seems absurd to a lot of people now.

I actually have a copy of some preview magazines for 1988, and a number of MLB players and managers named Dawson the best player in the NL when asked. The other player who was mentioned several times was Tony Gwynn. So it wasn't just voters considering HR, RBI, and BA. Players and managers were generally in agreement at the time that Dawson or Gwynn was the best overall player in the NL.

The idea that playing for a contender should matter is a fabrication of the media. Players and managers will almost always ignore the standings when identifying the player who they truly believe is the best overall player in the league. And it appears that OOTP tries to do something similar by basing the MVP Award at least in part on VORP.

Anywaym this 'contender' nonsense is the same kind of poison that the media spreads by wanting to make the Hall of Fame a Hall of Stats. Bill Mazeroski hit one of the most FAMOUS home runs in the history of baseball, in one of the most FAMOUS upsets of all-time. He was also FAMOUS for being one of the greatest defensive players in the history of the game, with only Roberto Alomar and Ryne Sandberg winning more Gold Gloves at second base during their careers.

Yet many people argued against him going into the Hall of Fame, because they have become married to statistics and have lost all common sense. They forget that the word FAME is in the name of the place. They also forget that the name of the award is the Most Valuable Player and not the Most Valuable Contender.

[Raidergoo]

Originally Posted by Big Wil

Could somebody explain to me how does the computer pick the MVP.

VORP.

[Big Wil]

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

VORP.

That seemed to be the case before the last patch. I could always predict MVP by the VORP and was happy that was tweeked. It seems now sometimes the VOPR wins the award, sometimes the player with the best Slugging stats wins it (I'm not sure if it's SLG PCT or OBS because the same player leads in both). But sometimes I just can't figure out what the criteria was. Note my previous example. Player D didn't lead in any of the statistical catagories. Three other players had better VORP ratings then he did. He was 4th in OBP, 3rd in SLG and OBS. 2nd in HR and RBI's. The other players listed were in the top 3 and or lead in those catagories. I'm curious what stats were considered and what formula was used and does the formula changed randomly from year to year?

[tysok]

Originally Posted by Big Wil

That seemed to be the case before the last patch. I could always predict MVP by the VORP and was happy that was tweeked. It seems now sometimes the VOPR wins the award, sometimes the player with the best Slugging stats wins it (I'm not sure if it's SLG PCT or OBS because the same player leads in both). But sometimes I just can't figure out what the criteria was. Note my previous example. Player D didn't lead in any of the statistical catagories. Three other players had better VORP ratings then he did. He was 4th in OBP, 3rd in SLG and OBS. 2nd in HR and RBI's. The other players listed were in the top 3 and or lead in those catagories. I'm curious what stats were considered and what formula was used and does the formula changed randomly from year to year?

Without seeing your top 10 lists and all that I can't figure out why it might have selected him.
VORP is not the end all decision factor, as I said I've seen the 4th and, at least once, the 5th highest VORP get the MVP. It's a large part of it I'm sure, but it's not the final decision maker.
Look at all the top 10s (that make sense... not sure if there are hitting stats that are backwards anymore but there are pitching ones) if player D is in the top 5 of every category and everyone else misses one or two you know those are what pushed him over the top (maybe).

[Giants44]

I have said it before and I will say it again - give us the option to vote/select our own MVP,Cy Young, Gold Glove, All-stars, etc and I will be one very happy camper.

this simple(assumption on my part) fix would do wonders for On-line leagues where these awards are usually voted on and God-mode players who like to control everything.

[Charlie Hough]

Originally Posted by Giants44

I have said it before and I will say it again - give us the option to vote/select our own MVP,Cy Young, Gold Glove, All-stars, etc and I will be one very happy camper.

Agreed.

[Syd Thrift]

You know what I'd really like? For a future version or whatev... have a squad of virtual sportswriters vote on these awards. Different ones could maybe have different criteria (that, in a perfect world, you could set), morons who work for the Seattle P-I and Times could vote Ken Griffey for MVP over A-Rod so Juan Gonzalez could win an undeserved crown... it would make fans angry the same way they get angry at real baseball and therefore it would be great!

[Pirate Fan]

Isn't defense also supposed to be considered when awarding the MVP? If player C did a great job handling a demanding defensive position like SS or C while A and B contirbuted clunky gloves at 1B and LF then C was obviously the better player IMO.

[Raidergoo]

I don't think they consider glovework for MVP voting. It may be, at best, icing on the cake. MVP voters like monster power numbers, especially if you are in a pennant race.


2005 Albert Pujols STL .330/.430/.609
Alex Rodriguez NYY .321/.421/.610

2004 Barry Bonds SFG .362/.609/.812
Vladimir Guerrero ANA .337/.391/.598

2003 Barry Bonds SFG .341/.529/.749
Alex Rodriguez TEX .298/.396/.600

2002 Barry Bonds SFG .370/.582/.799
Miguel Tejada OAK .308/.354/.508

2001 Barry Bonds SFG .328/.515/.863
Ichiro Suzuki SEA .350/.381/.457

2000 Jeff Kent SFG .334/.424/.596
Jason Giambi OAK .333/.476/.647

1999 Chipper Jones ATL .319/.441/.633
Ivan Rodriguez TEX .332/.356/.558

1998 Sammy Sosa CHC .308/.377/.647
Juan Gonzalez TEX .318/.366/.630

1997 Larry Walker COL .366/.452/.720
Ken Griffey SEA .304/.382/.646

1996 Ken Caminiti SDP .326/.408/.621
Juan Gonzalez TEX .314/.368/.643

1995 Barry Larkin CIN .319/.394/.492
Mo Vaughn BOS .300/.388/.575

1994 Jeff Bagwell HOU .368/.451/.750
Frank Thomas CHW .353/.487/.729

1993 Barry Bonds SFG .336/.458/.677
Frank Thomas CHW .317/.426/.607

1992 Barry Bonds PIT .311/.456/.624
Dennis Eckersley OAK 7-1 (51 sv) 1.91 93 SO

1991 Terry Pendleton ATL .319/.363/.517
Cal Ripken BAL .323/.374/.566

1990 Barry Bonds PIT .301/.406/.565
Rickey Henderson OAK .325/.439/.577

1989 Kevin Mitchell SFG .291/.388/.635
Robin Yount MIL .318/.384/.511

1988 Kirk Gibson LAD .290/.377/.483
Jose Canseco OAK .307/.391/.569

1987 Andre Dawson CHC .287/.328/.568
George Bell TOR .308/.352/.605

1986 Mike Schmidt PHI .290/.390/.547
Roger Clemens BOS 24-4 2.48 238 SO

1985 Willie McGee STL .353/.384/.503
Don Mattingly NYY .324/.371/.567

1984 Ryne Sandberg CHC .314/.367/.520
Willie Hernandez DET 9-3 (32 sv) 1.92 112 SO

1983 Dale Murphy ATL .302/.393/.540
Cal Ripken BAL .318/.371/.517

1982 Dale Murphy ATL .281/.378/.507
Robin Yount MIL .331/.379/.578

1981 Mike Schmidt PHI .316/.435/.644
Rollie Fingers MIL 6-3 (28 sv) 1.04 61 SO

1980 Mike Schmidt PHI .286/.380/.624
George Brett KCR .390/.454/.664

[tysok]

I agree, the only time I've ever heard defense beng brought up in an MVP discussion has been when a DH may be deserving... then it's just the fact that he's only half a player compared to the full player (Ortiz and Rodriguez last year).

[Markus Heinsohn]

What about Barry Larkin? He definitely did not win the MVP because of HR and RBI...

MVP voting in real life sucks. So I had to make it a little bit unpredictable in OOTP as well

[sfgiants88]

Can it be made customizable, so that you choose the MVP winner?

[tysok]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

What about Barry Larkin? He definitely did not win the MVP because of HR and RBI...

MVP voting in real life sucks. So I had to make it a little bit unpredictable in OOTP as well

I don't believe in Barry Larkin. He's a figment of everyone's imagination.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by sfgiants88

Can it be made customizable, so that you choose the MVP winner?

In OOTP 2007, yes

[Big Wil]

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

MVP voters like monster power numbers, especially if you are in a pennant race.

That's the MVP criteria I would like to setup in my universe. Forget VORP, OBS, ABC or IRS. You hit the most homeruns, drive in the most runs and your team finishes in first. You win. Nuff said.

Shallow, yes. BUT I LIKE IT!

[Big Wil]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

In OOTP 2007, yes

I thank-you. My family thanks-you. And Player A, Player B, and Player C thank-you.

Player D declined to make comment.

[Raidergoo]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

What about Barry Larkin? He definitely did not win the MVP because of HR and RBI...

Larkin won because

#1 weak competition. Dante Bichette was #2. 51 steals is more impressive than 40 Coors Field HR's.
#2 Reds were third best team in baseball that year, and the heart of their World Series drive was cut out by two consecutive Braves extra inning victories.
#3 Garciaparra, Jeter, Rodriguez, and Tejada had not redefined SS yet.

What is comical is that Barry had a better season in 1996 and finished 12th in balloting.

I am glad that MVP awards can be controversial in OOTP.

Tysok is bitter because the Royals got Kurt Stillwell instead of Larkin.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

I don't think they consider glovework for MVP voting. It may be, at best, icing on the cake. MVP voters like monster power numbers, especially if you are in a pennant race.


2005 Albert Pujols STL .330/.430/.609
Alex Rodriguez NYY .321/.421/.610

2004 Barry Bonds SFG .362/.609/.812
Vladimir Guerrero ANA .337/.391/.598

2003 Barry Bonds SFG .341/.529/.749
Alex Rodriguez TEX .298/.396/.600

2002 Barry Bonds SFG .370/.582/.799
Miguel Tejada OAK .308/.354/.508

2001 Barry Bonds SFG .328/.515/.863
Ichiro Suzuki SEA .350/.381/.457

2000 Jeff Kent SFG .334/.424/.596
Jason Giambi OAK .333/.476/.647

1999 Chipper Jones ATL .319/.441/.633
Ivan Rodriguez TEX .332/.356/.558

1998 Sammy Sosa CHC .308/.377/.647
Juan Gonzalez TEX .318/.366/.630

1997 Larry Walker COL .366/.452/.720
Ken Griffey SEA .304/.382/.646

1996 Ken Caminiti SDP .326/.408/.621
Juan Gonzalez TEX .314/.368/.643

1995 Barry Larkin CIN .319/.394/.492
Mo Vaughn BOS .300/.388/.575

1994 Jeff Bagwell HOU .368/.451/.750
Frank Thomas CHW .353/.487/.729

1993 Barry Bonds SFG .336/.458/.677
Frank Thomas CHW .317/.426/.607

1992 Barry Bonds PIT .311/.456/.624
Dennis Eckersley OAK 7-1 (51 sv) 1.91 93 SO

1991 Terry Pendleton ATL .319/.363/.517
Cal Ripken BAL .323/.374/.566

1990 Barry Bonds PIT .301/.406/.565
Rickey Henderson OAK .325/.439/.577

1989 Kevin Mitchell SFG .291/.388/.635
Robin Yount MIL .318/.384/.511

1988 Kirk Gibson LAD .290/.377/.483
Jose Canseco OAK .307/.391/.569

1987 Andre Dawson CHC .287/.328/.568
George Bell TOR .308/.352/.605

1986 Mike Schmidt PHI .290/.390/.547
Roger Clemens BOS 24-4 2.48 238 SO

1985 Willie McGee STL .353/.384/.503
Don Mattingly NYY .324/.371/.567

1984 Ryne Sandberg CHC .314/.367/.520
Willie Hernandez DET 9-3 (32 sv) 1.92 112 SO

1983 Dale Murphy ATL .302/.393/.540
Cal Ripken BAL .318/.371/.517

1982 Dale Murphy ATL .281/.378/.507
Robin Yount MIL .331/.379/.578

1981 Mike Schmidt PHI .316/.435/.644
Rollie Fingers MIL 6-3 (28 sv) 1.04 61 SO

1980 Mike Schmidt PHI .286/.380/.624
George Brett KCR .390/.454/.664

Don't forget Scooter in 1950, whose award was due as much to his glove as anything else. Granted, that's nearly 60 years ago now. Didn't Maz win an MVP at some point in his career? It's also worth mentioning that although Ripken's range wasn't much in '91, he had an incredibly sound year in the field (he committed something like 3 errors the whole season at shortstop) and that definitely was a contributing factor to his award.

[sfgiants88]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

In OOTP 2007, yes

Cool!