Keeping top-notch talent away from lower MLE Leagues

QuestGAV · 06-09-2006, 01:47 PM

Right now it looks like all leagues have similar chances to land big FAs early on which most of us probably don't want. I'm going to try choking them out financially by reducing their average attendance, ticket prices, and media revenue. Has anyone else been able to accomplish this in another way?

DRaysGoRocco · 06-09-2006, 02:03 PM

I was worried about this. I really don't want to see someone like Grady Sizemore go to play in the Korean League just because they are offering more money. But like you said, if you put their financials down so that they can't afford him, that may change things.

If that doesn't fix the problem, I'm sure a simple patch could fix it

QuestGAV · 06-09-2006, 02:05 PM

Yeah I don't want to artificially restrict player movement and I'm concerned that if I drop their financials so low they won't be able to afford the guys they should be signing.

UKRedsFan · 06-09-2006, 02:09 PM

Unfortunately just reducing the financials doesn't work.

Say you sent superstar earnings to $16m in League A and $160k in League B. If a team in League B gets to him first, he'll just ask for $160k.

What they need to do is sort out the AI for free agents so that CPU teams compete for free agents from Jan 1st, and also make sure star players won't want to play in a less prestigious league.

QuestGAV · 06-09-2006, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKRedsFan

Say you sent superstar earnings to $16m in League A and $160k in League B. If a team in League B gets to him first, he'll just ask for $160k.

Yes, then Markus has to fix the player AI.

Gastric ReFlux · 06-09-2006, 02:35 PM

Maybe leagues need some sort of prestige rating.

spleen1015 · 06-09-2006, 02:37 PM

Has anyone tried messing with ticket prices, attendance, cash, tv contracts, etc to limit the amounf o money the other leagues have to spend?

darkcloud4579 · 06-09-2006, 02:48 PM

Ok.

So last night I created a new universe where every minor league was independent, as was the majors. I also created 1 independent minor league (the Atlantic League). This is so I could do relegation every four years.

So, it was really important to me that major leaguers weren't signing with A-Ball teams.

What I did is I set the financial coefficent to .750, though I don't think this was necessary.

But I have yet to see an instance in two seasons of a "top" player or even someone who is "deserving" to be at the MLB level, taking less money to play in an inferior league.

But each league that's not the majors has a salary cap. Attendance is lower than in the majors and the top salaries aren't anything close to the majors.

What I also had to do in the beginning of the league, was go to financials and make fictional player contracts at the beginning of the first season when I started and it took me a bit to get this right at the Triple-A level with players making way more than they were worth, but...after the first season, I noticed that teams were indeed signing players with MLB experience, but they were guys who had a bad season or two, had very minimal playing time in the majors and would sign for say, a much smaller contract to play in Triple-A.

I do have trading with other leagues on, but I have trading on Hard, so it seems to make the trades that are made a lot more "even" to me.

Arbitration is turned off. Waivers are only on in the majors.

I think what I'm trying to say is, there needs to be a lot of "tweaking" to get it all right, but..that there is a way to make it work all right.

I prefer the customization and array of options, rather than having fewer and things laid out even if that's "easier".

Another Mike D · 06-09-2006, 02:56 PM

Can't you just set it for one-way movement?

hyde4us11 · 06-09-2006, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Mike D

Can't you just set it for one-way movement?

I just uncheck the let FA leave this league box on creation

QuestGAV · 06-09-2006, 03:16 PM

So darkcloud, you found that limiting the amount of cash available to the lesser leagues made it more difficult for them to sign the big guys? I don't want to restrict player movement, because I do want to see the Petagines and Fielders be able to go over and make their mark. I just don't want to see a Cuban team sign and keep an Albert Pujols.

andymac · 06-09-2006, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuestGAV

So darkcloud, you found that limiting the amount of cash available to the lesser leagues made it more difficult for them to sign the big guys? I don't want to restrict player movement, because I do want to see the Petagines and Fielders be able to go over and make their mark. I just don't want to see a Cuban team sign and keep an Albert Pujols.

The financials should definitely do this...if a team doesn't have $16 million dollars, but that is what Pujols expects to be paid on the open FA market...he isn't going to talk to them.

The problem right now is when a player ends up in a lower MLE league, but then becomes a better player worthy of moving up to the higher MLE league...he doesn't take into account any financials other than that lower league when negotiating an extension. If he gets out onto the FA market and MLB clubs start offering him contracts he'll see it, but he may be more than happy to sign an extension with the lower MLE club before he ever goes on the market...leaving him playing in a league he is too good for.

QuestGAV · 06-09-2006, 03:27 PM

That makes sense. UKredsfan scared me quite a bit with his scenario. If players scale their demand to whatever league comes knocking on their door it's going to be totally unworkable. If they only do that for the league they just came from it's easier to manage.

darkcloud4579 · 06-09-2006, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuestGAV

So darkcloud, you found that limiting the amount of cash available to the lesser leagues made it more difficult for them to sign the big guys? I don't want to restrict player movement, because I do want to see the Petagines and Fielders be able to go over and make their mark. I just don't want to see a Cuban team sign and keep an Albert Pujols.

yes.

limit the amount of cash they get in their hands and restrict the salaries in that league and it'll work both ways to prevent "big name" players from going to those leagues. at least, that's how worked for me -- and pretty well at that so far.

darkcloud4579 · 06-09-2006, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andymac

The financials should definitely do this...if a team doesn't have $16 million dollars, but that is what Pujols expects to be paid on the open FA market...he isn't going to talk to them.

The problem right now is when a player ends up in a lower MLE league, but then becomes a better player worthy of moving up to the higher MLE league...he doesn't take into account any financials other than that lower league when negotiating an extension. If he gets out onto the FA market and MLB clubs start offering him contracts he'll see it, but he may be more than happy to sign an extension with the lower MLE club before he ever goes on the market...leaving him playing in a league he is too good for.

i've noticed if you allow trading between leagues and you ensure the disparaties are significant, then the player will sign with a major league team. for example, in my league now, i've had major leagues go to triple-a to play, but only when they're no good for the majors.

on the other hand, i've seen players who have good double-a or triple-a seasons sign major league deals that aren't out of this world, but far more than anything they'd be able to get anywhere else.

i think the key is ensuring that financially there is only "one" big dog league in the universe and that will ensure that there won't be anywhere else for the players to go but to the majors.

i even had major league teams making offers for minor league free agents (since their season ends sooner) before the major league season ends.

that said, if you want to increase player movement, keeping the salaries static between leagues will naturally encourage pourous league movement between players.

but its all relative. remember, there are major leaguers who will go to japan and play their for a large part of their career, despite probably being able to get a shot in the majors. some are motivated by something other than money or the supposed "inferiority" of each league, so...let's not treat this as if it is some sort of absolute that every player ought to subscribe to.

scefalu · 06-09-2006, 04:25 PM

Has anyone tried choking the financials of the lesser leagues, but leaving the slary structure in place. As a hypothetical example, the Italian League would have an average attendance of 5,000 per game and a TV contract worth 2 million ($10 per ticket * 5000 tickets * 70 home games = $3.5 million + $2 million TV money ~ $5.5 million dollar budget). So, set the minimum contract at $50,000 to keep a plentiful amount of lower-end player money available. At the same time, set the salary structure so that superstars still want $16 million. How would this work out? Clearly, the really good players would continually want more money, but the teams in the league would be unable to retain high quality players.

I haven't tested this, but there is my idea.

andymac · 06-09-2006, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scefalu

Has anyone tried choking the financials of the lesser leagues, but leaving the slary structure in place. As a hypothetical example, the Italian League would have an average attendance of 5,000 per game and a TV contract worth 2 million ($10 per ticket * 5000 tickets * 70 home games = $3.5 million + $2 million TV money ~ $5.5 million dollar budget). So, set the minimum contract at $50,000 to keep a plentiful amount of lower-end player money available. At the same time, set the salary structure so that superstars still want $16 million. How would this work out? Clearly, the really good players would continually want more money, but the teams in the league would be unable to retain high quality players.

I haven't tested this, but there is my idea.

I believe darkcloud has done this and he seemed to like his results. I am a bit worried about some players wanting too much money for the league, yet not being good enough to get offers from major league clubs (thus putting them in free agent limbo). I havn't had a chance to test it yet, however.

ZouDave · 06-09-2006, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scefalu

Has anyone tried choking the financials of the lesser leagues, but leaving the slary structure in place. As a hypothetical example, the Italian League would have an average attendance of 5,000 per game and a TV contract worth 2 million ($10 per ticket * 5000 tickets * 70 home games = $3.5 million + $2 million TV money ~ $5.5 million dollar budget). So, set the minimum contract at $50,000 to keep a plentiful amount of lower-end player money available. At the same time, set the salary structure so that superstars still want $16 million. How would this work out? Clearly, the really good players would continually want more money, but the teams in the league would be unable to retain high quality players.

I haven't tested this, but there is my idea.

That definitely sounds like it's on the right track to me. But the question I think may come up now is how does a player decide he's a superstar or not? Does he decide it based on how he is compared to others in his current league or is it how his abilities are compared to a standard MLB level? If it's based on the current league, then a guy will think he's a superstar and be expecting $16M when in reality he's a platoon player at the ML level and he ends up wanting more money than he'll ever get and just ends up not being signed previous to the season. That could be as big a problem.

darkcloud4579 · 06-09-2006, 05:36 PM

Here's something I don't like, that I discovered last night:

The game seems insane about taking players from the majors, releasing them 2 or 3 times after they sign a deal. This isn't the first guy I've seen it with either. It's really absurd that it happens, because there is no explanation for it. You'd almost be happier if they just got released once and moved on. But they don't ever do that.

This guy went and signed with a minor league team after he did that. (Minors are all independent) and that wouldn't be a problem, except for the huge pay cut he was willing to take.

He's a 40-year old veteran, btw. I already submitted a tech support bug, because its probably not a bug, but..its a HUGE problem.

scefalu · 06-10-2006, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZouDave

But the question I think may come up now is how does a player decide he's a superstar or not?

I think you've nailed the problem. The scouts give two overall ratings: one for the league the player is in, and a second for the league the scout in from. I hope the game has an overall rating for the player against the world population. That would be the true measure of 'superstar-ness.' Otherwise, you're absolutely right, my previous suggestion would end up with a bunch of benchwarmers making $16M. Not good.

As for players wanting too much money for the league ... that has been a problem in past versions when the salary cap has been set too low. In that case, there were a large number of unsigned quality free agents. I don't know how this game would respond, yet.

06-09-2006, 01:47 PM	#1
QuestGAV Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,008	Keeping top-notch talent away from lower MLE Leagues Right now it looks like all leagues have similar chances to land big FAs early on which most of us probably don't want. I'm going to try choking them out financially by reducing their average attendance, ticket prices, and media revenue. Has anyone else been able to accomplish this in another way?

06-09-2006, 02:03 PM	#2
DRaysGoRocco Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Offutt AFB, NE Posts: 237	I was worried about this. I really don't want to see someone like Grady Sizemore go to play in the Korean League just because they are offering more money. But like you said, if you put their financials down so that they can't afford him, that may change things. If that doesn't fix the problem, I'm sure a simple patch could fix it __________________ "It is the nature of being the general manager of a baseball team that you have to remain on familiar terms with people you are continually trying to screw." - Michael Lewis, Moneyball

06-09-2006, 02:48 PM	#8
darkcloud4579 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 8,659	Ok. So last night I created a new universe where every minor league was independent, as was the majors. I also created 1 independent minor league (the Atlantic League). This is so I could do relegation every four years. So, it was really important to me that major leaguers weren't signing with A-Ball teams. What I did is I set the financial coefficent to .750, though I don't think this was necessary. But I have yet to see an instance in two seasons of a "top" player or even someone who is "deserving" to be at the MLB level, taking less money to play in an inferior league. But each league that's not the majors has a salary cap. Attendance is lower than in the majors and the top salaries aren't anything close to the majors. What I also had to do in the beginning of the league, was go to financials and make fictional player contracts at the beginning of the first season when I started and it took me a bit to get this right at the Triple-A level with players making way more than they were worth, but...after the first season, I noticed that teams were indeed signing players with MLB experience, but they were guys who had a bad season or two, had very minimal playing time in the majors and would sign for say, a much smaller contract to play in Triple-A. I do have trading with other leagues on, but I have trading on Hard, so it seems to make the trades that are made a lot more "even" to me. Arbitration is turned off. Waivers are only on in the majors. I think what I'm trying to say is, there needs to be a lot of "tweaking" to get it all right, but..that there is a way to make it work all right. I prefer the customization and array of options, rather than having fewer and things laid out even if that's "easier". __________________ ------ My Mods Managerial Strategy Pack Competitive Balance Tax Calculator Major League Women's Baseball (OOTP24) quickstart Indian Premier League \| 300+ years of baseball quickstart \| Expatriate League quickstart \| Off-Field Injuries Update \| Women's Name File for OOTP \| ---- Dynasty classics: Centurion comes to OOTP5 \| DC Moneyball Dynasty (2004)

06-09-2006, 02:56 PM	#9
Another Mike D All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: atl Posts: 891	Can't you just set it for one-way movement? __________________ San Diego Padres NexGen Baseball League Cleveland Indians United Baseball League Co-commissioner of United Baseball League

06-09-2006, 04:25 PM	#16
scefalu Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 355	Has anyone tried choking the financials of the lesser leagues, but leaving the slary structure in place. As a hypothetical example, the Italian League would have an average attendance of 5,000 per game and a TV contract worth 2 million ($10 per ticket * 5000 tickets * 70 home games = $3.5 million + $2 million TV money ~ $5.5 million dollar budget). So, set the minimum contract at $50,000 to keep a plentiful amount of lower-end player money available. At the same time, set the salary structure so that superstars still want $16 million. How would this work out? Clearly, the really good players would continually want more money, but the teams in the league would be unable to retain high quality players. I haven't tested this, but there is my idea. __________________ Shawn

06-09-2006, 02:05 PM	#3
QuestGAV Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,008	Yeah I don't want to artificially restrict player movement and I'm concerned that if I drop their financials so low they won't be able to afford the guys they should be signing.

06-09-2006, 02:09 PM	#4
UKRedsFan Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Worthing, England Posts: 83	Unfortunately just reducing the financials doesn't work. Say you sent superstar earnings to $16m in League A and $160k in League B. If a team in League B gets to him first, he'll just ask for $160k. What they need to do is sort out the AI for free agents so that CPU teams compete for free agents from Jan 1st, and also make sure star players won't want to play in a less prestigious league.

06-09-2006, 02:35 PM	#6
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	Maybe leagues need some sort of prestige rating.

06-09-2006, 02:37 PM	#7
spleen1015 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 5,999	Has anyone tried messing with ticket prices, attendance, cash, tv contracts, etc to limit the amounf o money the other leagues have to spend?

06-09-2006, 03:16 PM	#11
QuestGAV Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,008	So darkcloud, you found that limiting the amount of cash available to the lesser leagues made it more difficult for them to sign the big guys? I don't want to restrict player movement, because I do want to see the Petagines and Fielders be able to go over and make their mark. I just don't want to see a Cuban team sign and keep an Albert Pujols.

06-09-2006, 03:27 PM	#13
QuestGAV Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,008	That makes sense. UKredsfan scared me quite a bit with his scenario. If players scale their demand to whatever league comes knocking on their door it's going to be totally unworkable. If they only do that for the league they just came from it's easier to manage.

06-09-2006, 05:36 PM	#19
darkcloud4579 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 8,659	Here's something I don't like, that I discovered last night: The game seems insane about taking players from the majors, releasing them 2 or 3 times after they sign a deal. This isn't the first guy I've seen it with either. It's really absurd that it happens, because there is no explanation for it. You'd almost be happier if they just got released once and moved on. But they don't ever do that. This guy went and signed with a minor league team after he did that. (Minors are all independent) and that wouldn't be a problem, except for the huge pay cut he was willing to take. He's a 40-year old veteran, btw. I already submitted a tech support bug, because its probably not a bug, but..its a HUGE problem. __________________ ------ My Mods Managerial Strategy Pack Competitive Balance Tax Calculator Major League Women's Baseball (OOTP24) quickstart Indian Premier League \| 300+ years of baseball quickstart \| Expatriate League quickstart \| Off-Field Injuries Update \| Women's Name File for OOTP \| ---- Dynasty classics: Centurion comes to OOTP5 \| DC Moneyball Dynasty (2004) Last edited by darkcloud4579; 06-09-2006 at 05:38 PM.