Bring Back The Stars!!!! - Page 5

White Sox · 06-01-2006, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qrusher14242

I vote to have them come back. It would be an option, so those who want to wade through hunderds of crappy players to find a good one can do that. Although, i like in the Aurora Skin in FM where the ratings are bars and not numbers.

Its just for convenience. To be able to scroll a roster and have a rough idea of how the team is.

Here, here!

sixto · 06-01-2006, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kq76

You could change that filter to show you only players with at least a 6 or 7 in those ratings, but then what about those players that are like a 7 in contact, 7 in power, but 3 in eye, that player won't show up and you'll miss him when he probably very much belongs in the next top 12.

I guess I'm not really sure how this is different from before. Say I sorted players for 15 power, 15 contact and 5 eye...because those were the players I wanted to find, I would find them. If you're searching for players with a 7 contact, 7 power and 3 eye, and he's a guy you want - then set your filters right. Don't set the eye filter to 7 - yes?

Alternatively, set the filter to OR for eye, and you'll get all players with an eye rating of 5 plus all with power where you want it. I guess I'm not seeing how the stars are better.

I take it you're talking in 6s and 7s because you have reset the ratings to the 1-10 scale. And while I wholeheartedly embrace the concept that we should all take advantage of the customizability of the game, which is its true strength. But you can easily see a huge split forming in just one day between FM fans and OOTP fans, and sticking with old scales is an obvious example of one. I was immediately at home with the 1-20 scale even though I always used 1-10 in OOTP. I think there are going to be a lot of growing pains, and unfortunately, probably a lot of sniping, as we all seek some common ground.

kq76 · 06-01-2006, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

and if star ratings are brough back, what will they reflect? remember, scouting is much different in this version.

I'm not sure I even understand what you are asking, but if scouts can give their opinions on individual ratings, why can't they give their opinions on overall ratings? We probably won't always agree with them, but at least it will give us something more to go off of. It's just like any management job where you rely on advisors. They bring you information where some of it might be subjective and you can go with their recommendations or you can come to some other conclusion and go a different route. That's what we're asking for, conclusions, recommendations, an executive summary, then if we want to investigate further we can read the entire report. I don't like being given a 100 page report on something without any of those things and then being told, "okay, make a decision and asap".

Up and Atom · 06-01-2006, 01:12 AM

Count me in for an option to inlude the stars or at least some kind of quick and dirty (maybe the SI scouting rating) for a player that can be seen on the main screen. Say you're looking for a medium level trade with another team and you want their 11th best player. You've got to go through every player in the minor leagues, look at the ratings, then right click back to the main page, rinse, lather and repeat repeat repeat. Or at least make it where you can scroll from player to player without having to right click back to the main player listing page every time.

PSUColonel · 06-01-2006, 01:17 AM

There are overall ratings.....20/80

PSUColonel · 06-01-2006, 01:18 AM

Sorry folks, but in this version, you actually have to scout players!!

Bravo Marcus and SI!!!

ForemanFan · 06-01-2006, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kq76

I'm not sure I even understand what you are asking, but if scouts can give their opinions on individual ratings, why can't they give their opinions on overall ratings? We probably won't always agree with them, but at least it will give us something more to go off of. It's just like any management job where you rely on advisors. They bring you information where some of it might be subjective and you can go with their recommendations or you can come to some other conclusion and go a different route. That's what we're asking for, conclusions, recommendations, an executive summary, then if we want to investigate further we can read the entire report. I don't like being given a 100 page report on something without any of those things and then being told, "okay, make a decision and asap".

Right! Precisely on the mark!

PSUColonel · 06-01-2006, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanFan

Right! Precisely on the mark!

see above. They do give overall ratings and potential overall ratings.

ForemanFan · 06-01-2006, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Sorry folks, but in this version, you actually have to scout players!!

Bravo Marcus and SI!!!

Oh yeah, because that was exactly what was missing in previous versions, it was what everyone was screaming and gnashing their teeth for the whole time. I know I lost a boatload of sleep on that very thing. And those stars? Why, they just got in the way of all of the experts. Without them, we'll now be able to weed out all of the semi to non serious gamers leaving only the creme' d' la creme'! The elite! The Chosen! Long live the Master Race of Baseball Simmers!

kq76 · 06-01-2006, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixto

I guess I'm not really sure how this is different from before. Say I sorted players for 15 power, 15 contact and 5 eye...because those were the players I wanted to find, I would find them. If you're searching for players with a 7 contact, 7 power and 3 eye, and he's a guy you want - then set your filters right. Don't set the eye filter to 7 - yes?

Alternatively, set the filter to OR for eye, and you'll get all players with an eye rating of 5 plus all with power where you want it. I guess I'm not seeing how the stars are better.

I take it you're talking in 6s and 7s because you have reset the ratings to the 1-10 scale. And while I wholeheartedly embrace the concept that we should all take advantage of the customizability of the game, which is its true strength. But you can easily see a huge split forming in just one day between FM fans and OOTP fans, and sticking with old scales is an obvious example of one. I was immediately at home with the 1-20 scale even though I always used 1-10 in OOTP. I think there are going to be a lot of growing pains, and unfortunately, probably a lot of sniping, as we all seek some common ground.

I'll try to clarify what I meant (and I am using a 1-10 scale, sorry for the confusion). Okay, say you need to make your first round draft pick, but you really don't have much time or don't want to take much time (maybe it's an online league and you're on the clock). You want to get an idea of what the top 10 or top whatever # of players that are available and then you want to take a closer look at them to decide which really is the best player available. In the past you could quickly see all the 5 blue star players, but that probably wasn't many, so you'd consider the 4 blue star ones, and maybe even the odd 3 star player if they had a rating that you were really big on. After only a minute or so you have maybe 10 players you're thinking of and then you might spend 10 or so minutes deciding between those players going over their ratings.

Without stars that last step isn't any different, but that first step of finding that group of players is. Why? Well, with stars OOTP wasn't too bad at realizing that a 4 contact, 6 power, 8 eye guy could be pretty good. Now if you're filtering for players, are you really going to include all players that have a 4 for contact? The number of players that filter will spit out will be much more than 10 players so you probably won't filter for a guy with such a low contact. Okay, so you refine your search for players for at least a 4 for contact, but at least a 6 in eye and power, which will pick that guy up, but then it won't pick up a player with an 8 contact, 6 power, 4 eye. You could run a bunch of filters and keep a list of players to consider, but the problem simply is that that takes so much longer than just looking at stars and sorting by stars to get that group of players you want to decide from. Instead of a 1 minute deal, it takes considerably longer or you risk missing out on those odd players whom really shouldn't be overlooked.

truthserum · 06-01-2006, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kq76

I'll try to clarify what I meant (and I am using a 1-10 scale, sorry for the confusion). Okay, say you need to make your first round draft pick, but you really don't have much time or don't want to take much time (maybe it's an online league and you're on the clock). You want to get an idea of what the top 10 or top whatever # of players that are available and then you want to take a closer look at them to decide which really is the best player available. In the past you could quickly see all the 5 blue star players, but that probably wasn't many, so you'd consider the 4 blue star ones, and maybe even the odd 3 star player if they had a rating that you were really big on. After only a minute or so you have maybe 10 players you're thinking of and then you might spend 10 or so minutes deciding between those players going over their ratings.

Without stars that last step isn't any different, but that first step of finding that group of players is. Why? Well, with stars OOTP wasn't too bad at realizing that a 4 contact, 6 power, 8 eye guy could be pretty good. Now if you're filtering for players, are you really going to include all players that have a 4 for contact? The number of players that filter will spit out will be much more than 10 players so you probably won't filter for a guy with such a low contact. Okay, so you refine your search for players for at least a 4 for contact, but at least a 6 in eye and power, which will pick that guy up, but then it won't pick up a player with an 8 contact, 6 power, 4 eye. You could run a bunch of filters and keep a list of players to consider, but the problem simply is that that takes so much longer than just looking at stars and sorting by stars to get that group of players you want to decide from. Instead of a 1 minute deal, it takes considerably longer or you risk missing out on those odd players whom really shouldn't be overlooked.

Agreed. The stars were a good thing for online leagues that liked to move along.

PSUColonel · 06-01-2006, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanFan

Oh yeah, because that was exactly what was missing in previous versions, it was what everyone was screaming and gnashing their teeth for the whole time. I know I lost a boatload of sleep on that very thing. And those stars? Why, they just got in the way of all of the experts. Without them, we'll now be able to weed out all of the semi to non serious gamers leaving only the creme' d' la creme'! The elite! The Chosen! Long live the Master Race of Baseball Simmers!

err..mostpeople thought the scouting system in 6.5 and before was VERY flawed.

dashby · 06-01-2006, 01:29 AM

The Stars were my guiding light. I loved them. If this were a democratic process and a majority vote might encourage the programming staff to return them, note my emphatic vote of "YEAH"!!!!

bababui · 06-01-2006, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

SI doesnt use stars in any of its other games. Don't look for them back in this one.

This isnt quite true...In FM/WWSM go to your scouts page and look at scouted players and they are rated 1-5 balls or stars or something

ForemanFan · 06-01-2006, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

err..mostpeople thought the scouting system in 6.5 and before was VERY flawed.

Errr, the word exaggerate mean anything to you? If what your claim is true then surely this new system should have remedied everything and no one at all could ever find a way to complain, right? . . . . . . right?

OakDragon · 06-01-2006, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

see above. They do give overall ratings and potential overall ratings.

Exactly. Page 25 of the manual. Has anyone here RTM?

edit: Though, to be fair, it does sound if perhaps these ratings ought to appear in more places than just the scouting reports page.

PSUColonel · 06-01-2006, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dashby

The Stars were my guiding light. I loved them. If this were a democratic process and a majority vote might encourage the programming staff to return them, note my emphatic vote of "YEAH"!!!!

There is a new scouting system. You can't know what a players ratings are unless you scout them...or you look at SISA, and SISA will not be very reliable. There are overall and potential ratings for every player. The ratings are done on a scale of 20-80. This is the actual scale real MLB scouts use in scouting players. They don't use stars. What is so difficult about loking at a players abilities on this scale vs. stars? in fact, they are more detailed. The only suggestion I might have for Markus, is to include a way to sort through these ratings in the filter views. This would be no different than stars folks.

PSUColonel · 06-01-2006, 01:37 AM

There is a new scouting system. You can't know what a players ratings are unless you scout them...or you look at SISA, and SISA will not be very reliable. There are overall and potential ratings for every player. The ratings are done on a scale of 20-80. This is the actual scale real MLB scouts use in scouting players. They don't use stars. What is so difficult about loking at a players abilities on this scale vs. stars? in fact, they are more detailed. The only suggestion I might have for Markus, is to include a way to sort through these ratings in the filter views. This would be no different than stars folks

endgame · 06-01-2006, 01:37 AM

Obviously this is an area that will get a great deal of attention given the discussions that are taking place about the issue. However, I don't suggest starting multiple threads when your comment will actually be better served joined with those in dialogue about it rather than risk appearing trying to drive it over the top. Sometimes less is more.

OakDragon · 06-01-2006, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

There is a new scouting system. You can't know what a players ratings are unless you scout them...or you look at SISA, and SISA will not be very reliable. There are overall and potential ratings for every player. The ratings are done on a scale of 20-80. This is the actual scale real MLB scouts use in scouting players. They don't use stars. What is so difficult about loking at a players abilities on this scale vs. stars? in fact, they are more detailed. The only suggestion I might have for Markus, is to include a way to sort through these ratings in the filter views. This would be no different than stars folks

I agree.

06-01-2006, 01:29 AM	#93
dashby Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 153	ditto on "the stars" The Stars were my guiding light. I loved them. If this were a democratic process and a majority vote might encourage the programming staff to return them, note my emphatic vote of "YEAH"!!!!

06-01-2006, 01:37 AM	#99
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 16,842	Obviously this is an area that will get a great deal of attention given the discussions that are taking place about the issue. However, I don't suggest starting multiple threads when your comment will actually be better served joined with those in dialogue about it rather than risk appearing trying to drive it over the top. Sometimes less is more. __________________ "Try again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett _____________________________________________

06-01-2006, 01:12 AM	#84
Up and Atom Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 17	Count me in for an option to inlude the stars or at least some kind of quick and dirty (maybe the SI scouting rating) for a player that can be seen on the main screen. Say you're looking for a medium level trade with another team and you want their 11th best player. You've got to go through every player in the minor leagues, look at the ratings, then right click back to the main page, rinse, lather and repeat repeat repeat. Or at least make it where you can scroll from player to player without having to right click back to the main player listing page every time.

06-01-2006, 01:17 AM	#85
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,146	There are overall ratings.....20/80

06-01-2006, 01:18 AM	#86
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,146	Sorry folks, but in this version, you actually have to scout players!! Bravo Marcus and SI!!!