Vince Young Scores a Six?

[IatricSB]

Originally Posted by abailey3313

Well, in all fairness, I think every quarterback needs to play smart. Just ask Aaron Brooks.

Agreed, my point was that he doesn't have the pure passing ability to get by on like a Marino. The game has changed. Guys like Favre used to be able to throw interceptions in a game as long as they threw more TDs. But now when you look at the QBs with success, most are doing it by avoiding the mistakes of a high interception rate (I've always wondered if Bradshaw could make it in today's game. I have my doubts as to whether he would have had the success he did had he played today). Turnovers have always been around, but in this age of parity many think they are much more important now. So it's important now more than ever to have a QB that can play smart and eliminate the turnovers and mental mistakes. That plus as has been discussed earlier, the sheen is off Vick now. A couple of years ago he was the toast of the town. Now there are major questions about whether he'll continue to win. I'm in the camp that Young looks to be Vick-esque as someone put it and at this point, that's more a negative than a positive. Young should be exciting like Vick with his runs but his mechanics are said to need improvement and it remains to be seen how he picks up the NFL defenses (and his score gives me more reason to be concerned)

[abailey3313]

I was actually just joking around -- I understood your original point. And as intelligent as a quarterback needs to be, I wonder how much a test such as this actually tests their on-field intelligence. And yeah, I do believe there's a difference.

[IatricSB]

Originally Posted by abailey3313

I was actually just joking around -- I understood your original point. And as intelligent as a quarterback needs to be, I wonder how much a test such as this actually tests their on-field intelligence. And yeah, I do believe there's a difference.

From looking at the test, it appears to test their ability to handle pressure more than anything. They have a timed limit and have to make quick decisions. It is questionable just what impact the test has exactly, but it's hard to discredit when you see so many good QBs scoring well and others that never got it scoring bad (yes there are exceptions, but many times it seems the good QB who scored low was gifted with talent wherease those who score high and suck aren't exactly memorable for their physical abilities). So the way I see it, it won't be right every time but is just one more tool for evaluating the player.

[Skipaway]

You can also say it's just a test of the ability to read all the playbooks. Some people study through other means better.

[abailey3313]

Originally Posted by IatricSB

From looking at the test, it appears to test their ability to handle pressure more than anything. They have a timed limit and have to make quick decisions. It is questionable just what impact the test has exactly, but it's hard to discredit when you see so many good QBs scoring well and others that never got it scoring bad (yes there are exceptions, but many times it seems the good QB who scored low was gifted with talent wherease those who score high and suck aren't exactly memorable for their physical abilities). So the way I see it, it won't be right every time but is just one more tool for evaluating the player.

Ah, the time thing might be it.

I looked at an example of the test and thought to myself, "what's so difficult?" But if you throw the stipulation of a time limit out there, that makes it a bit more challenging -- and yeah, adds notable pressure.

[QuestGAV]

If McNair can be successful at 12 then Young can be successful at 16 with the right tools and work ethic. I think the new score takes the pressure off the general intellgence issue and puts it on football skills and intelligence.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by QuestGAV

If McNair can be successful at 12 then Young can be successful at 16 with the right tools and work ethic. I think the new score takes the pressure off the general intellgence issue and puts it on football skills and intelligence.

I agree with the general idea of this, but I guess some teams would still shy away from him.

Teams with complicated schemes and teams not willing to change to much to fit his style might be worried.

[PerfectMisnomer]

50 questions in 12 minutes equates to answering roughly four questions a minute. So you have (on average) 15 seconds per question. Understanding that some people need to read something a couple of times/very slow to sink it in, it must be very hard to take that test if you aren't a great reader.

[abailey3313]

Originally Posted by QuestGAV

If McNair can be successful at 12 then Young can be successful at 16 with the right tools and work ethic. I think the new score takes the pressure off the general intellgence issue and puts it on football skills and intelligence.

And a lot of people are suggesting that Young falls into the McNair prototype anyway (partially credited to the latter's mentoring of Young).

[KurtBevacqua]

Originally Posted by IatricSB

Agreed, my point was that he doesn't have the pure passing ability to get by on like a Marino. The game has changed. Guys like Favre used to be able to throw interceptions in a game as long as they threw more TDs. But now when you look at the QBs with success, most are doing it by avoiding the mistakes of a high interception rate (I've always wondered if Bradshaw could make it in today's game. I have my doubts as to whether he would have had the success he did had he played today). Turnovers have always been around, but in this age of parity many think they are much more important now. So it's important now more than ever to have a QB that can play smart and eliminate the turnovers and mental mistakes. That plus as has been discussed earlier, the sheen is off Vick now. A couple of years ago he was the toast of the town. Now there are major questions about whether he'll continue to win. I'm in the camp that Young looks to be Vick-esque as someone put it and at this point, that's more a negative than a positive. Young should be exciting like Vick with his runs but his mechanics are said to need improvement and it remains to be seen how he picks up the NFL defenses (and his score gives me more reason to be concerned)

Bradshaw had the talent to be successful in any era. He had a HUGE arm and ran as well as guys like McNair. The problem Bradshaw would have today is whether a team would have the patience to stick it out with him today. Chuck Knoll only just barely stuck it out with him then. Pretty amazing he did even then when he had a pretty decent Terry Hanratty and another guy with a huge arm in Joe Gilliam in the wings. Bradshaw needed more time to get good than Ryan Leaf was ever afforded. I suspect in today's game Bradshaw would have been a 1st round pick, considered a bust with his first team, and either quit or made it big when he signed on somewhere else.

[IatricSB]

Originally Posted by KurtBevacqua

Bradshaw had the talent to be successful in any era. He had a HUGE arm and ran as well as guys like McNair. The problem Bradshaw would have today is whether a team would have the patience to stick it out with him today. Chuck Knoll only just barely stuck it out with him then. Pretty amazing he did even then when he had a pretty decent Terry Hanratty and another guy with a huge arm in Joe Gilliam in the wings. Bradshaw needed more time to get good than Ryan Leaf was ever afforded. I suspect in today's game Bradshaw would have been a 1st round pick, considered a bust with his first team, and either quit or made it big when he signed on somewhere else.

But Bradshaw had trouble reading defenses consistently. Low completion pcts and high interceptions are not what goes in today's game, so I really think he'd be more like Favre was this past season and thus would not be successful. But it's only speculation.

The whole Wonderlic test seems somewhat conterintuitive. Would medical schools start evaluating their potential students with the LSAT, rather than the MCAT? I don't think anything in the football world replicates the things that are tested in the Wonderlic test. Why would you want to know how a player deals with the pressures of standardized testing, when you can watch a player's games, and, well, see him deal with pressure in actual football. If you are talking about the ability to absorb complex football schemes, the Wonderlic doesn't offer any indication of that ability other than a rough barameter of general intelligence. Most players don't prepare for the Wonderlic test, which of course, is in contrast to football schemes where much time is given to learn and absorb the systems. As someone brought up earlier in the thread, Akili Smith scored a 12 his first time around, and boasted that to a 37 with advanced preperation and studying. That is a superior indicator of an individual's ability to learn and apply material than a first time Wonderlic testing where no preperation was done.

[Dwolfson20]

All it really means is that Vince Young isn't very good at taking the Wonderlic test. That's about it.

[QuestGAV]

I think all they're looking for is an indicator of general intelligence. Much as a 40 time is a general indicator of athletic ability. It's info that supplements what you already know about a prospect from their game performance in college, it doesn't replace it.

[Dwolfson20]

Well, you could look at his grades in high school and college, and his scores on other tests, and you could ask people who know him. I'm not saying you shouldn't give him this test, but you shouldn't not draft him because of it. There's lots of other reasons I wouldn't draft Vince Young, none of them having to do with this particular test.

[Skipaway]

This kind of test is just used to signal red flags. If it was a 6, I am sure a lot of teams should seriously consider giving up Vince Young. If it's a 16, then probably nothing to worry about.

Just like 40 time. If it's way slower than expected, I am sure that'd be an important signal. If it's within a reasonable range, then of course real on the field performence would be more important.

[QuestGAV]

Yeah, it's critical values that you're looking for. If a 6 translates to an IQ of 60, that would place him below Forrest Gump in terms of intelligence. While it's a heartwarming movie, I don't want my Super Bowl hopes resting on Forrest's real life equivalent reading and breaking down a Bill Belichick defense.

[IatricSB]

Originally Posted by Dwolfson20

Well, you could look at his grades in high school and college, and his scores on other tests, and you could ask people who know him. I'm not saying you shouldn't give him this test, but you shouldn't not draft him because of it. There's lots of other reasons I wouldn't draft Vince Young, none of them having to do with this particular test.

The grades some of those guys get aren't worth the paper they're printed on (or is it disc their stored on).

[sebastian0622]

Originally Posted by IatricSB

The grades some of those guys get aren't worth the paper they're printed on (or is it disc their stored on).

Yeah, almost all blue chippers get 3.8+ GPAs. Funny how that works, especially considering how many of them then go on to record a sub-20 ACT.

[Sublimity]

Originally Posted by QuestGAV

Yeah, it's critical values that you're looking for. If a 6 translates to an IQ of 60, that would place him below Forrest Gump in terms of intelligence. While it's a heartwarming movie, I don't want my Super Bowl hopes resting on Forrest's real life equivalent reading and breaking down a Bill Belichick defense.

But he could run all good!