Jamal Lewis: Pretty ****ing Bad - Page 2

Jason Moyer · 12-07-2005, 06:57 PM

Quote:

2000 - 1364 yds, 6 TD, 4.4 avg
2001 - N/A
2002 - 1327 yds, 6 TD, 4.3 avg
2003 - 2066 yds, 14 TD, 5.3 avg
2004 - 1006 yds, 7 TD, 4.3 avg
2005 - 638 yds, 2 TD, 3.1 avg

2000 - 7th Rushing DPAR
2002 - 21st
2003 - 6th
2004 - 17th

And his DVOA is a lot lower than that. The only reason he looked good in 2003 was because he carried the ball a million times - he was 21st in DVOA. I'd post his receiving DPAR/DVOA but they're both fairly close to nothing.

abailey3313 · 12-07-2005, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

Brian Westbrook could fumble 20 times a year while rushing for 750 yards and I'd still take him over 3/4 of the backs in the league.

Jamal Lewis is garbage.

JDOldSchool · 12-07-2005, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

Brian Westbrook could fumble 20 times a year while rushing for 750 yards and I'd still take him over 3/4 of the backs in the league.

As what? A wide receiver? He wasn't in the Top 10 for running backs in rushing+receiving yardage last year. He's a great athlete and a solid player, but he's not an elite back.

abailey3313 · 12-07-2005, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

2000 - 7th Rushing DPAR
2002 - 21st
2003 - 6th
2004 - 17th

And his DVOA is a lot lower than that. The only reason he looked good in 2003 was because he carried the ball a million times - he was 21st in DVOA. I'd post his receiving DPAR/DVOA but they're both fairly close to nothing.

*yawn*

Luis_Rivera · 12-07-2005, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

Whenever I see someone saying a running back sucks because of his total rushing yards, it makes me think of people who argue about baseball players and just quote RBI.

I think a better parallel to that is talking about TD's... the most overrated statistic when applied to an individual player.

Quote:

Jamal Lewis is having a bad year, but he was certainly a premier player other seasons.

For two years he was top 10... I see you also like FO's metrics. I'd avoid using it here, though... at least convert it to normalspeak because it's too far from mainstream to garner reactions different than the one above. It takes a little more work, but I understand what goes into them enough to do it.

Jonzard · 12-07-2005, 08:09 PM

http://www.sportsgoons.com/volume3/V...amal_Lewis.htm
Old but still relevant

Dagrims · 12-07-2005, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

I think a better parallel to that is talking about TD's... the most overrated statistic when applied to an individual player.

The issue here, though, is that TDs and total rushing yards are the only statistics applicable to this thread since Bailey has him in a fantasy league. He could care less about DPAR or DVOA since you don't get points for doing well in those statistics. For fantasy league purposes, Lewis is pretty ****ing bad.

abailey3313 · 12-07-2005, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagrims

The issue here, though, is that TDs and total rushing yards are the only statistics applicable to this thread since Bailey has him in a fantasy league. He could care less about DPAR or DVOA since you don't get points for doing well in those statistics. For fantasy league purposes, Lewis is pretty ****ing bad.

Exactly.

Thought, like I said, having him sabotage my fantasy season just pushed me over the edge. I've never liked the guy simply because of having to deal with homer fans who pegged him as the best in the game.

Luis_Rivera · 12-07-2005, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagrims

The issue here, though, is that TDs and total rushing yards are the only statistics applicable to this thread since Bailey has him in a fantasy league. He could care less about DPAR or DVOA since you don't get points for doing well in those statistics. For fantasy league purposes, Lewis is pretty ****ing bad.

Oh I knew his point, and I wasn't about to get involved with the actual central discussion. Rather, I was just commenting on JM's post

But in fairness to JM... AB expanded the conversation beyond discussing Lewis for just fantasy purposes when he talked about the Ravens fans praising him.

Urth · 12-08-2005, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonzard

http://www.sportsgoons.com/volume3/V...amal_Lewis.htm
Old but still relevant

Quote:

Kyle Boller’s career ended earlier this season when X-Rays revealed a broken psyche, ruptured expectations, and a the inability to read defenses after a week one loss to the Colts.

abailey3313 · 12-08-2005, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

Oh I knew his point, and I wasn't about to get involved with the actual central discussion. Rather, I was just commenting on JM's post

But in fairness to JM... AB expanded the conversation beyond discussing Lewis for just fantasy purposes when he talked about the Ravens fans praising him.

Yeah, I was trying to make sure that this development of hatred has evolved. I was never actually intending this to be a fantasy football conversation, actually. It just so happens I had made a post on my league's site about Jamal, so yeah, it was fantasy related.

But generally I think Jamal is overrated as a running back (at least in this area -- not sure about nationally).

Luis_Rivera · 12-08-2005, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abailey3313

But generally I think Jamal is overrated as a running back (at least in this area -- not sure about nationally).

FWIW, I agree with you... I think the stats, advanced and standard do back up your claim (not that he sucks, but that he's overrated). He's been about average for a starter other than a couple years.

However, he's been looked upon as one of the top backs in the league by the general populace.

Sublimity · 12-08-2005, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis_Rivera

FWIW, I agree with you... I think the stats, advanced and standard do back up your claim (not that he sucks, but that he's overrated). He's been about average for a starter other than a couple years.

However, he's been looked upon as one of the top backs in the league by the general populace.

This is what I would also say. Good thing they got rid of that Priest Holmes bum. But I suppose that's a separate discussion.

eriqjaffe · 12-08-2005, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abailey3313

(By the way... if they moved from Cleveland, they aren't an expansion team, right? Ravens fans insist they were an expansion team, but I don't remember any expansion. I remember them being stolen from Cleveland just like the Colts were stolen from Baltimore. Hypocritical Ravens fans.)

Technically, the Ravens are considered an expansion franchise. When the Browns moved to Baltimore, part of the agreement that the NFL reached with the city of Cleveland would be that the Ravens would be considered a "new" franchise, while the "future" Cleveland Browns would inherit the history of the original franchise. It's as if the Browns simply didn't play for a number of years. Check out the Records areas of the Browns & Ravens sites to see for yourself.

From a Baltimore Sun article that I googled:

Quote:

the deal calls for Cleveland to drop its lawsuit against the Browns, a case that was scheduled for trial Monday. The city sought to force the Browns to play the final three seasons of their lease at Cleveland Stadium.

Instead, Cleveland will build a 72,000-seat stadium at the site of the current facility. The city estimates this will cost between $220 million and $230 million, and will be paid for by league financing and a $175 million package of tax increases and borrowing already approved by Cleveland.

Cleveland also agreed not to lure a team itself, leaving its football destiny in the NFL's hands.

In return, the city will get to keep the Browns' name, colors and records for use by another team that the league promises to bring to the city, through expansion or relocation, by 1999.

abailey3313 · 12-08-2005, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eriqjaffe

Technically, the Ravens are considered an expansion franchise. When the Browns moved to Baltimore, part of the agreement that the NFL reached with the city of Cleveland would be that the Ravens would be considered a "new" franchise, while the "future" Cleveland Browns would inherit the history of the original franchise. It's as if the Browns simply didn't play for a number of years. Check out the Records areas of the Browns & Ravens sites to see for yourself.

Yeah, I knew there was a weird circumstance for it, I just couldn't remember what it was. I've always had a cold heart for the Ravens, so I just never bothered looking it up.

Sublimity · 12-08-2005, 11:21 AM

Oh yeah, I had forgotten all about that. Can you imagine someone looking back at the record books in like 100 years? "Odd, Cleveland traded all of their players to Baltimore, who hadn't existed until then, except as a different franchise, but got nothing in return, then didn't play at all for a while."

The Funk · 12-09-2005, 03:40 AM

How's he rated on Madden? That will usually tell you how a player's perceived.

abailey3313 · 12-09-2005, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Funk

How's he rated on Madden? That will usually tell you how a player's perceived.

I don't know what his actual rating. I do know that I now do the same thing with him that I did with Ricky Williams last year: before doing anything, go to edit rosters and make him a zero in everything. Save and play.

BrewedCrew · 12-09-2005, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Funk

How's he rated on Madden? That will usually tell you how a player's perceived.

I believe he is rated a 94 which makes it so he is only behind LT, Alexander, Curtis Martin, and Holmes

The Funk · 12-09-2005, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrewedCrew

I believe he is rated a 94 which makes it so he is only behind LT, Alexander, Curtis Martin, and Holmes

Alstott syndrome then.

12-07-2005, 08:09 PM	#26
Jonzard Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,647	http://www.sportsgoons.com/volume3/V...amal_Lewis.htm Old but still relevant __________________ For a scientist must indeed be freely imaginative and yet skeptical, creative and yet a critic. There is a sense in which he must be free, but another in which his thought must be very precisely regimented; there is poetry in science, but also a lot of bookkeeping. — Sir Peter B. Medawar FTB

12-08-2005, 11:21 AM	#36
Sublimity Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: This thread. Posts: 3,199	Oh yeah, I had forgotten all about that. Can you imagine someone looking back at the record books in like 100 years? "Odd, Cleveland traded all of their players to Baltimore, who hadn't existed until then, except as a different franchise, but got nothing in return, then didn't play at all for a while." __________________ mrs ria: I hereby dub Sublimity the Glorious Upholder of the 5B3. Current leading vote-getter in the Worst Poster in OT History poll.

12-09-2005, 03:40 AM	#37
The Funk All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Watford Posts: 903	How's he rated on Madden? That will usually tell you how a player's perceived.