More Mets talk - Page 3

Skipaway · 01-11-2005, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

^^^

Gets it.

Like I said earlier. This is the Mets we are talking about. High hopes at seasons begining descend into talk of rebuilding around June 1st.

Continuing building maybe, rebuilding is impossible. The team got tons of money to spend, with lots of huge contracts already tied in long term. It makes absolutely no sense to rebuild.

Melo · 01-12-2005, 10:58 AM

LOL, Slackker. And, FWIW, I was pissed when the Mets let Olerud sign with Seattle. For a little more money, they could have kept him.

My gut tells me that what's going to happen is this: Floyd for Sosa: supposedly this could be a package deal with Farnsworth in it and the teams are just discussing how much cash the Cubs will turn over. Then I think the Mets will sign Travis Lee.

Olerud has shown that he has something left in the tank and his professional attitude can only help stabiliza what could be clubhouse of characters.

Joshv02 · 01-12-2005, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melo

Then I think the Mets will sign Travis Lee.

Maybe Omar will keep on the roll and trade Petit for Kevin Millar?

kingcharlesxii · 01-12-2005, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by potatoman

C Estrada < Piazza
Smoltz < Pedro (Both injury risk anyway)
Ramirez < Zambrano

Disagree with these three.

Piazza hit .266 with an .806 OPS. Estrada hit .314 with an .828 OPS and played great defense.

With Smoltz vs Pedro, it's tough to say. At this point I'd take Smoltz over Pedro but I think they'd warrant an = at worst if we assume Pedro takes to the NL.

Ramirez had a 2.39 ERA before he was injured and was the best starter on the Braves. Zambrano was nowhere near as good.

Melo · 01-12-2005, 02:56 PM

I don't know why people are so set on Smoltz being a sure thing. How close will he be to the starter he was before the switch? He's going to be 38 in May and he's spent the last 4 years as a closer. How much do the Braves think they will get out of him? And just how many years has Smoltz had that were better than a year that Pedro has had? Smoltz is no given.

kingcharlesxii · 01-12-2005, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melo

I don't know why people are so set on Smoltz being a sure thing. How close will he be to the starter he was before the switch? He's going to be 38 in May and he's spent the last 4 years as a closer. How much do the Braves think they will get out of him? And just how many years has Smoltz had that were better than a year that Pedro has had? Smoltz is no given.

He's 38, sure, but he also hasn't had the wear and tear of being a starting pitcher the last few year. I'm not expecting Smoltz to win the Cy Young or be as dominant as he was in '96 but I am expecting 15 wins and a 3-3.5 ERA. Maybe I'm just pessimistic about Martinez but I don't see him putting up great numbers this year. I very well could be wrong, it's too early in the year to tell. Everything I've read about Pedro's shoulder would scare the hell out of me if I was a Mets fan.

Melo · 01-12-2005, 03:29 PM

Pedro had an MRI, his shoulder is fine. I'm sure there is some wear and tear but not like the "90% torn labrum" that Gammons first reported then backed away from.

I don't know what can be expected from Smoltz. How many pitchers have made that kind of switch at 38?

I'd be more inclined to say Pedro = Hudson and Smoltz = Glavine. Heck, you couls say the entire starting staffs are a wash.

ChuckB · 01-12-2005, 04:03 PM

The Mets accomplished what they wanted to accomplish: they created a "buzz" around the team; they brought the fans back from oblivion with a glimmer of hope (the prospect that they might have trumped the Yankees, which really isn't true); the positioned themselves in a less-than-dominant NL East to at least contend.

I'm a Mets fan that believed that the Mets had to spend whatever they needed to spend to get Beltran. They did. They outbid themselves a few times. And whether he hits .280 with 30 homeruns and 100 RBI, or hits .265 with 25/95 but steals 30 bases and fields his position, he was what they needed. Once the players hit the field, you can forget all about their price tags.

As for the Smoltz-Martinez debate, Martinez will probably have as good a season as Smoltz, but he's much younger and the Mets didn't build the team to win this season only. Unless you really believe that throwing 100 pitches every fifth night is more wear-and-tear than throwing 20 pitches a night, four nights out of five, Smoltz is still 38, and, unless he turns into Randy Johnson overnight, Martinez should prove more effective over the life of their respective contracts than Smoltz. That said, the bottom line is that the Braves pitching staff will always trump the Mets' staff, no matter who they put on the field. For some reason, that team pumps out starters like the Broncos pump out running backs.

Estrada had a better season than Piazza, but can we let him do it for more than one year before we inaugurate him as the next great catcher? The guy hit .214 in September and had 9 homeruns last season. Nine! If Piazza starts off poorly, then you can say his career in Flushing is over. Until then, I'd take him over Estrada any day of the week.

The team to watch out for in the NL East is the Marlins. Let's not forget about them.

I'd like to see if David Wright continues to improve. His sophomore season is going to be very telling...can he handle a slump? He had 14 homeruns last season in 263 at-bats, but struck out 40 times and walked 14. That's about right for a slugging third baseman.

I'd like to see Olerud in there too, if only for his defense. Consider that they have a young infield, and Olerud is one of the best in the business with the glove. Willie Randolph telling us all that Delgado is underrated with his glove isn't really an epiphany...if he expects the Mets to make a run at the guy, he'll tell us anything, and say anything if he thinks it'll get Delgado into his lineup. That way, if the Mets fail, it'll be because the big stars didn't perform, not because Willie is a rookie manager.

potatoman · 01-12-2005, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingcharlesxii

Disagree with these three.

Piazza hit .266 with an .806 OPS. Estrada hit .314 with an .828 OPS and played great defense.

With Smoltz vs Pedro, it's tough to say. At this point I'd take Smoltz over Pedro but I think they'd warrant an = at worst if we assume Pedro takes to the NL.

Ramirez had a 2.39 ERA before he was injured and was the best starter on the Braves. Zambrano was nowhere near as good.

Sorry, I really didn't follow Ramirez but I think at best they are a wash. I agree with Chuck, I don't think you can count on Smoltz to be the pitcher he used to be or the pitcher he was closing. He was still putting in a lot of innings and the wear and tear on his old arm is still a lot.

I'd still take Piazza over Estrada.

darthpb · 01-13-2005, 11:59 PM

I see most of you people are not in NY; I am. Queens, in fact. Less than 10 minutes to Shea and I have to tell you, I am beginning to get VERY excited here...finally. I think they should have signed Leiter but I'll move on. they are also not done yet. Give me Delgado; are you kiddin' me. get a little help in the pen and we win the division. What was up with the Stanton for Heredia deal though? That, I don't get.

Slackker · 01-14-2005, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darthpb

I see most of you people are not in NY; I am. Queens, in fact. Less than 10 minutes to Shea and I have to tell you, I am beginning to get VERY excited here...finally. I think they should have signed Leiter but I'll move on. they are also not done yet. Give me Delgado; are you kiddin' me. get a little help in the pen and we win the division. What was up with the Stanton for Heredia deal though? That, I don't get.

What I don't get is the first part of your post =) You live in NY, and thus you're a bigger fan than all of us who just claim to be Mets fans because we're.. bandwagon-- no wait, the Mets suck lately.. that doesn't work. Hmm. =) Really though.. Melo and I aren't too far away over here in CT.

Not arguing, just curious!

Melo · 01-14-2005, 08:51 AM

I think the issue with Leiter was pretty simple. Omar didn't want Al stepping on his head constantly while he told the Wilpon's how the club should be run.

darthpb, what do the people of Queens think about a new stadium next to Shea? I still hold out hope that the Jets & Mets will get together and do a project together.

ctorg · 01-14-2005, 08:56 AM

Well I grew up in Brooklyn and spent a couple of years living in Astoria (Queens). I spent my entire life living on some part of Long Island or other until I moved to Providence in late 2001.

ChuckB · 01-14-2005, 09:05 AM

As a matter of fact, I grew up on Long Island, have lived in NY my entire life, and have been a Mets fan since before I was born in September of 1969. But I agree...I dont think locale has much of a difference in this: if you're a Mets fan, you're a Mets fan.

potatoman · 01-14-2005, 06:42 PM

I heard Magglio is looking for a 1 year 8 million dollar deal to be able to prove himself injury free and that the Mets are one of his options. A team with Piazza, Wright, Delgado, Magglio, Beltran, Reyes, Matsui...I'd take that as my fantasy team any day...

darthpb · 01-14-2005, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slackker

What I don't get is the first part of your post =) You live in NY, and thus you're a bigger fan than all of us who just claim to be Mets fans because we're.. bandwagon-- no wait, the Mets suck lately.. that doesn't work. Hmm. =) Really though.. Melo and I aren't too far away over here in CT.

Not arguing, just curious!

Sorry if you misunderstood. Where exactly did I imply that? Merely stating the fact that I live here and I am excited about this team again. just giving a little bit of the local buzz; that's all.

01-14-2005, 08:56 AM	#53
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	Well I grew up in Brooklyn and spent a couple of years living in Astoria (Queens). I spent my entire life living on some part of Long Island or other until I moved to Providence in late 2001. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

01-14-2005, 06:42 PM	#55
potatoman Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,410 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	I heard Magglio is looking for a 1 year 8 million dollar deal to be able to prove himself injury free and that the Mets are one of his options. A team with Piazza, Wright, Delgado, Magglio, Beltran, Reyes, Matsui...I'd take that as my fantasy team any day... __________________ GFBL - Storm - 5 seasons - 500 - 310 New Jersey Nighthawks (1227-717) Last 5 seasons 2011: 118-44 2012: 100-62 2013: 111-51 2014: 106-56 2015: 108-54 OTBA Champions: 2008, 2010,2011

01-12-2005, 10:58 AM	#42
Melo All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Where the baned reside Posts: 1,428	LOL, Slackker. And, FWIW, I was pissed when the Mets let Olerud sign with Seattle. For a little more money, they could have kept him. My gut tells me that what's going to happen is this: Floyd for Sosa: supposedly this could be a package deal with Farnsworth in it and the teams are just discussing how much cash the Cubs will turn over. Then I think the Mets will sign Travis Lee. Olerud has shown that he has something left in the tank and his professional attitude can only help stabiliza what could be clubhouse of characters.

01-12-2005, 02:56 PM	#45
Melo All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Where the baned reside Posts: 1,428	I don't know why people are so set on Smoltz being a sure thing. How close will he be to the starter he was before the switch? He's going to be 38 in May and he's spent the last 4 years as a closer. How much do the Braves think they will get out of him? And just how many years has Smoltz had that were better than a year that Pedro has had? Smoltz is no given.

01-12-2005, 03:29 PM	#47
Melo All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Where the baned reside Posts: 1,428	Pedro had an MRI, his shoulder is fine. I'm sure there is some wear and tear but not like the "90% torn labrum" that Gammons first reported then backed away from. I don't know what can be expected from Smoltz. How many pitchers have made that kind of switch at 38? I'd be more inclined to say Pedro = Hudson and Smoltz = Glavine. Heck, you couls say the entire starting staffs are a wash.

01-12-2005, 04:03 PM	#48
ChuckB Minors (Single A) Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 67	The Mets accomplished what they wanted to accomplish: they created a "buzz" around the team; they brought the fans back from oblivion with a glimmer of hope (the prospect that they might have trumped the Yankees, which really isn't true); the positioned themselves in a less-than-dominant NL East to at least contend. I'm a Mets fan that believed that the Mets had to spend whatever they needed to spend to get Beltran. They did. They outbid themselves a few times. And whether he hits .280 with 30 homeruns and 100 RBI, or hits .265 with 25/95 but steals 30 bases and fields his position, he was what they needed. Once the players hit the field, you can forget all about their price tags. As for the Smoltz-Martinez debate, Martinez will probably have as good a season as Smoltz, but he's much younger and the Mets didn't build the team to win this season only. Unless you really believe that throwing 100 pitches every fifth night is more wear-and-tear than throwing 20 pitches a night, four nights out of five, Smoltz is still 38, and, unless he turns into Randy Johnson overnight, Martinez should prove more effective over the life of their respective contracts than Smoltz. That said, the bottom line is that the Braves pitching staff will always trump the Mets' staff, no matter who they put on the field. For some reason, that team pumps out starters like the Broncos pump out running backs. Estrada had a better season than Piazza, but can we let him do it for more than one year before we inaugurate him as the next great catcher? The guy hit .214 in September and had 9 homeruns last season. Nine! If Piazza starts off poorly, then you can say his career in Flushing is over. Until then, I'd take him over Estrada any day of the week. The team to watch out for in the NL East is the Marlins. Let's not forget about them. I'd like to see if David Wright continues to improve. His sophomore season is going to be very telling...can he handle a slump? He had 14 homeruns last season in 263 at-bats, but struck out 40 times and walked 14. That's about right for a slugging third baseman. I'd like to see Olerud in there too, if only for his defense. Consider that they have a young infield, and Olerud is one of the best in the business with the glove. Willie Randolph telling us all that Delgado is underrated with his glove isn't really an epiphany...if he expects the Mets to make a run at the guy, he'll tell us anything, and say anything if he thinks it'll get Delgado into his lineup. That way, if the Mets fail, it'll be because the big stars didn't perform, not because Willie is a rookie manager.

01-13-2005, 11:59 PM	#50
darthpb All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Queens, NY a mile from Shea Posts: 690	I see most of you people are not in NY; I am. Queens, in fact. Less than 10 minutes to Shea and I have to tell you, I am beginning to get VERY excited here...finally. I think they should have signed Leiter but I'll move on. they are also not done yet. Give me Delgado; are you kiddin' me. get a little help in the pen and we win the division. What was up with the Stanton for Heredia deal though? That, I don't get.

01-14-2005, 08:51 AM	#52
Melo All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Where the baned reside Posts: 1,428	I think the issue with Leiter was pretty simple. Omar didn't want Al stepping on his head constantly while he told the Wilpon's how the club should be run. darthpb, what do the people of Queens think about a new stadium next to Shea? I still hold out hope that the Jets & Mets will get together and do a project together.

01-14-2005, 09:05 AM	#54
ChuckB Minors (Single A) Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 67	As a matter of fact, I grew up on Long Island, have lived in NY my entire life, and have been a Mets fan since before I was born in September of 1969. But I agree...I dont think locale has much of a difference in this: if you're a Mets fan, you're a Mets fan.