Sign and Release Still Happening

Nukester · 10-20-2007, 03:44 PM

Does anyone have an idea why this might happen all of the time ? This is a historical league with the latest patch. I dont play fictional much, but I do have one long running fictional league going and I havent seen this happen in that league at all. Only historicals, and it doesnt matter what database Im using. It seems like there are usually alot of catchers that get released initially, then they go through this loop of being signed and released during the offseason, then once the season starts, teams will start signing every single player on the FA list, then drop them all the same day. This same group of players were signed and dropped by 3 different teams in the same day. Could it be there are too many catchers in the league initially ? Could it be a money issue where teams have alot of money to spend on FA when the league is first created ? Any other ideas on how to curb this ?

Nukester · 10-20-2007, 06:24 PM

This doesnt happen to anyone else ??? This one was with a more recent run through the league than the picture above. I edited the financials down for all teams before starting this one. Same thing happend. It happens EVERY time I start a historical league.

The Wolf · 10-20-2007, 07:45 PM

Never seen it. Sorry.

chambertrain · 10-20-2007, 11:44 PM

Maybe the patch doesn't work with saved games from previous patch versions. Did you start this league brand new with the new patch? Also post a picture of the patch version number when you first open ootp on the main screen please.

Nukester · 10-21-2007, 12:04 PM

I waited until the last patch to come out to recreate the league. It happened with every version of this years game (no patch, and all patches after that), and it doesnt matter what database I use. Because of that, Im guessing it is something in the way I set up the the league, since Im the only person that seems to have the problem (Ive seen one other person mention it in before), but honestly, the league is pretty standard fare, but I do change a couple of things, like turn scouts and coaches off, set the active roster size to 20, expanded rosters to 25, and no secondary rosters.

Elendil · 10-21-2007, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nukester

set the active roster size to 20, expanded rosters to 25, and no secondary rosters.

I'm guessing it has something to do with one of those settings, which are all pretty tight. You might want to try setting a secondary roster to something like 25.

Mike D · 10-21-2007, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elendil

I'm guessing it has something to do with one of those settings, which are all pretty tight. You might want to try setting a secondary roster to something like 25.

That would be my bet too.

We eliminated the problem during testing, so I would imagine that it might be those roster rules as to the reason it's happening.

endgame · 10-21-2007, 01:23 PM

The good news, if I can call it that, is that the player is at least not being signed and released back to the originating team time and again. This is an improvement. While he does make several trips between different team, it resounds of a setting issue as all of you have speculated, and each team is apparently making the same decision for the same reasons. It is also interesting to note that the player is that 'appealing' that multiple teams would attempt the roster add. The teams, in addition, must have identical immediate needs. In your first example, all the players were taken, not an individual selection.

On the other hand, working toward the ideal should certainly preclude this occurence at all, regardless of the roster settings. Roster management should be able to cope with a setting and deal with it in another fashion, i.e. know before signing that the transaction would result in release and omit the signing altogether. If the game creates a systemic issue that mandates roster size settings, within a reasonable range, it's the equivalent of house rules. IMHO, those should minimized -- ideally eliminated -- by improved logic, not by self-imposed compromises on the part of the game owner. Still, the performance has improved tremendously with each version.

Nukester · 10-23-2007, 09:35 AM

After starting about two dozen games and changing all kinds of settings, it seems that the problem is stemming from the change of roster size. If I set it to a roster size of 20 like I want to, all teams will release players to make the roster size, instead of demoting them down to the minors.

If I leave the roster size at 25, then only a few players get dropped. When importing 1903 from the Gambo Pure 1.75 database, and setting the roster size to 20, there are 29 players that get dropped (and it seems like the same 29 every time). Im going to just delete those 29 players from the FA list (although that kind of sucks because most of them are pretty young...around 26-27 years old, but almost all of them catchers) and see how it goes

Elendil · 10-23-2007, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nukester

After starting about two dozen games and changing all kinds of settings, it seems that the problem is stemming from the change of roster size. If I set it to a roster size of 20 like I want to, all teams will release players to make the roster size, instead of demoting them down to the minors.

If I leave the roster size at 25, then only a few players get dropped. When importing 1903 from the Gambo Pure 1.75 database, and setting the roster size to 20, there are 29 players that get dropped (and it seems like the same 29 every time). Im going to just delete those 29 players from the FA list (although that kind of sucks because most of them are pretty young...around 26-27 years old, but almost all of them catchers) and see how it goes

Another alternative is to edit their contracts and place them on minor league squads. The AI might just release them again, though. Do you have minor league roster limits?

Nukester · 10-23-2007, 10:00 AM

I have one AAA Minor League, of which most teams have about 3 or 4 players in to start. I have the roster limit set on it to 35 players. I would start with reserve rosters, but when adding a minor league after using reserve rosters, instead of the reserved players being added to the minor league, they get deleted

Elendil · 10-23-2007, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nukester

I have one AAA Minor League, of which most teams have about 3 or 4 players in to start. I have the roster limit set on it to 35 players. I would start with reserve rosters, but when adding a minor league after using reserve rosters, instead of the reserved players being added to the minor league, they get deleted

You might want to turn off the option that allows players to reject demotion for a few days, until things get settled. That would allow AI teams to demote players to their AAA affiliates (it seems there's plenty of room), rather than releasing them.

darkcloud4579 · 10-23-2007, 12:37 PM

Keeping the minor league will ease the problem. I had the same issue with my league where it would release draft picks when I got rid of the minor leagues, but I brought it back because it was a really wacky problem and since then, things have been fine. I keep the rosters in Triple-A or my minor league at 40 or more.

I'm thinking of adding another minor league for that same reason, but we'll see.

RonCo · 10-23-2007, 02:08 PM

The S&R problem was dramatically reduced in v2007, but can still happen. I think the working opinion on the cause is an interaction between small roster sizes and the fact that there currently no mnor league disabled lists. If true, I expect v9 (or whatever it's named) will resolve the issue for good. The best way I suggest to make it go away is to increase the size of your rosters a bit.

No Pepper · 10-23-2007, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nukester

I would start with reserve rosters, but when adding a minor league after using reserve rosters, instead of the reserved players being added to the minor league, they get deleted

That's somewhat alarming, thanks for the find. I hope these issues get resolved in the next version. I am trying to set up leagues with small rosters to reflect either early historical limits or small town ball and always have the issue of minors vs reserve rosters vs resorting to ultimate god commissioner to find what I want. I haven't seen the sign and release problem so much in fictionals but that's just going on a very selective memory.

Nukester · 10-27-2007, 07:09 PM

The way I got around this so far was to sim a couple of days, one at a time, and let the computer drop the guys it wanted to drop and sign the guys it wanted to sign. After 2 or 3 days the computer didnt sign anyone for a couple of days straight (like it was satisfied with what it had....for now), so I deleted all of the guys that were sitting as free agents (just waiting to be massed picked up and mass dropped by every team). It ended up being around 15-20 guys, almost all of them catchers with 3 and 1 ratings (on a 1-10 scale) all the way across the board. Since I play most of the first year or two with very low or no injuries, it wasnt really a big deal. Now I am through Spring Training, and everything seems cool so far. The main problem is that the CPU was just signing and dropping like players instead of throwing them in the minor league, or that there were so many catchers that were very similar, it didnt really know what to do

10-20-2007, 03:44 PM	#1
Nukester All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Newburgh, NY Posts: 1,923	Sign and Release Still Happening Does anyone have an idea why this might happen all of the time ? This is a historical league with the latest patch. I dont play fictional much, but I do have one long running fictional league going and I havent seen this happen in that league at all. Only historicals, and it doesnt matter what database Im using. It seems like there are usually alot of catchers that get released initially, then they go through this loop of being signed and released during the offseason, then once the season starts, teams will start signing every single player on the FA list, then drop them all the same day. This same group of players were signed and dropped by 3 different teams in the same day. Could it be there are too many catchers in the league initially ? Could it be a money issue where teams have alot of money to spend on FA when the league is first created ? Any other ideas on how to curb this ? Last edited by Nukester; 10-20-2007 at 03:50 PM.

10-20-2007, 06:24 PM	#2
Nukester All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Newburgh, NY Posts: 1,923	This doesnt happen to anyone else ??? This one was with a more recent run through the league than the picture above. I edited the financials down for all teams before starting this one. Same thing happend. It happens EVERY time I start a historical league. Last edited by Nukester; 10-20-2007 at 06:27 PM.

10-21-2007, 01:23 PM	#8
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 16,842	The good news, if I can call it that, is that the player is at least not being signed and released back to the originating team time and again. This is an improvement. While he does make several trips between different team, it resounds of a setting issue as all of you have speculated, and each team is apparently making the same decision for the same reasons. It is also interesting to note that the player is that 'appealing' that multiple teams would attempt the roster add. The teams, in addition, must have identical immediate needs. In your first example, all the players were taken, not an individual selection. On the other hand, working toward the ideal should certainly preclude this occurence at all, regardless of the roster settings. Roster management should be able to cope with a setting and deal with it in another fashion, i.e. know before signing that the transaction would result in release and omit the signing altogether. If the game creates a systemic issue that mandates roster size settings, within a reasonable range, it's the equivalent of house rules. IMHO, those should minimized -- ideally eliminated -- by improved logic, not by self-imposed compromises on the part of the game owner. Still, the performance has improved tremendously with each version. __________________ "Try again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett _____________________________________________ Last edited by endgame; 10-21-2007 at 01:25 PM.

10-23-2007, 10:00 AM	#11
Nukester All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Newburgh, NY Posts: 1,923	I have one AAA Minor League, of which most teams have about 3 or 4 players in to start. I have the roster limit set on it to 35 players. I would start with reserve rosters, but when adding a minor league after using reserve rosters, instead of the reserved players being added to the minor league, they get deleted Last edited by Nukester; 10-23-2007 at 10:02 AM.

10-23-2007, 12:37 PM	#13
darkcloud4579 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 8,709	Keeping the minor league will ease the problem. I had the same issue with my league where it would release draft picks when I got rid of the minor leagues, but I brought it back because it was a really wacky problem and since then, things have been fine. I keep the rosters in Triple-A or my minor league at 40 or more. I'm thinking of adding another minor league for that same reason, but we'll see. __________________ ------ My Mods OOTP Advanced Stats & DFS Suite Managerial Strategy Pack Competitive Balance Tax Calculator Major League Women's Baseball (OOTP24) quickstart Indian Premier League \| 300+ years of baseball quickstart \| Expatriate League quickstart \| Off-Field Injuries Update \| Women's Name File for OOTP \| ---- Dynasty classics: Centurion comes to OOTP5 \| DC Moneyball Dynasty (2004)

10-20-2007, 11:44 PM	#4
chambertrain Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Oswego, New York Posts: 316	Maybe the patch doesn't work with saved games from previous patch versions. Did you start this league brand new with the new patch? Also post a picture of the patch version number when you first open ootp on the main screen please.

10-21-2007, 12:04 PM	#5
Nukester All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Newburgh, NY Posts: 1,923	I waited until the last patch to come out to recreate the league. It happened with every version of this years game (no patch, and all patches after that), and it doesnt matter what database I use. Because of that, Im guessing it is something in the way I set up the the league, since Im the only person that seems to have the problem (Ive seen one other person mention it in before), but honestly, the league is pretty standard fare, but I do change a couple of things, like turn scouts and coaches off, set the active roster size to 20, expanded rosters to 25, and no secondary rosters.

10-23-2007, 09:35 AM	#9
Nukester All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Newburgh, NY Posts: 1,923	After starting about two dozen games and changing all kinds of settings, it seems that the problem is stemming from the change of roster size. If I set it to a roster size of 20 like I want to, all teams will release players to make the roster size, instead of demoting them down to the minors. If I leave the roster size at 25, then only a few players get dropped. When importing 1903 from the Gambo Pure 1.75 database, and setting the roster size to 20, there are 29 players that get dropped (and it seems like the same 29 every time). Im going to just delete those 29 players from the FA list (although that kind of sucks because most of them are pretty young...around 26-27 years old, but almost all of them catchers) and see how it goes

10-23-2007, 02:08 PM	#14
RonCo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 10,474	The S&R problem was dramatically reduced in v2007, but can still happen. I think the working opinion on the cause is an interaction between small roster sizes and the fact that there currently no mnor league disabled lists. If true, I expect v9 (or whatever it's named) will resolve the issue for good. The best way I suggest to make it go away is to increase the size of your rosters a bit.

10-27-2007, 07:09 PM	#16
Nukester All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Newburgh, NY Posts: 1,923	The way I got around this so far was to sim a couple of days, one at a time, and let the computer drop the guys it wanted to drop and sign the guys it wanted to sign. After 2 or 3 days the computer didnt sign anyone for a couple of days straight (like it was satisfied with what it had....for now), so I deleted all of the guys that were sitting as free agents (just waiting to be massed picked up and mass dropped by every team). It ended up being around 15-20 guys, almost all of them catchers with 3 and 1 ratings (on a 1-10 scale) all the way across the board. Since I play most of the first year or two with very low or no injuries, it wasnt really a big deal. Now I am through Spring Training, and everything seems cool so far. The main problem is that the CPU was just signing and dropping like players instead of throwing them in the minor league, or that there were so many catchers that were very similar, it didnt really know what to do Last edited by Nukester; 10-27-2007 at 07:12 PM.