More Important? Eye or Avoid Ks?

[ignats75]

I was trying to decide between two hitters. One has significantly better Eye, but doesn't avoid Ks and the other apparently has better bat control but is less selective at what pitches he swings at. Which do you think is better everything else being equal?

[CBeisbol]

Eye

I don't play PT, but in OOTP I don't find that Avoid K counts for anything (other than avoiding K's but I don't see that it creates for hits. Just turns batted ball outs into strike outs. I wouldn't mind if I were shown to be incorrect. And, totally possible that PT is different)

[chazzycat]

Avoid K does matter quite a bit in PT, particularly at the higher levels, but generally speaking eye is still more important.

[justpatrick]

Personally I put a greater value in avoid Ks than eye. I like guys with high contact and high avoid Ks, and unless the guy is a leadoff hitter Eye is not nearly as important.
For example, my shortstop on one of my silver league teams is George Wright. He´s got an amazing glove, his overall contact is only 71 but his avoid Ks is a whopping 102, and as an added bonus he is one of the oldest of the old timers, something I adore. Unfortunately his eye is a horrid 14, so I hit him second. Last year he hit .311/.330/.403 with a WAR of 6.8.

There are way too many guys in this game who are useless regardless of their other ratings simply because they can´t put their bat on the ball, especially live cards.

[Syd Thrift]

Avoid Ks is already baked into the Contact rating so if a guy has decent enough Contact, Eye by a mile.

[Jeff1787]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Avoid Ks is already baked into the Contact rating so if a guy has decent enough Contact, Eye by a mile.

I'm not doubting you, but if this is true, then what would be the purpose of Avoid K's rating?

[chazzycat]

It is true. The contact rating is actually an amalgamation of 3 different ratings - Avoid K, BABIP, and power. The BABIP rating is behind the hood, but you can deduce it from eyeballing the avoid K and power ratings.

[daves]

Eye seems very misleading. It’s like a fear rating or pitch around. High eye factor- Ruth, Bonds and Trout. Low eye rating- Ichiro, Gwynn, Carew. Hmmm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jeff1787]

Originally Posted by chazzycat

It is true. The contact rating is actually an amalgamation of 3 different ratings - Avoid K, BABIP, and power. The BABIP rating is behind the hood, but you can deduce it from eyeballing the avoid K and power ratings.

You lost me there!!! Please explain in more simple terms..

[chazzycat]

Originally Posted by Jeff1787

You lost me there!!! Please explain in more simple terms..

Basically there are 3 ratings included within "contact":

1) BABIP. this is hidden to the user and would affect a player's BABIP (batting average on balls in play)
2) Avoid K. this is shown to the user and affects how often a player strikes out
3) Power. This is shown to the user and affects home runs but ALSO is a component to the contact rating, though smaller than the other two.

So if you see a player with a big CONTACT rating, but their avoid K and power are both low, you can reasonably infer they have a high BABIP rating.

[chazzycat]

Originally Posted by daves

Eye seems very misleading. It’s like a fear rating or pitch around. High eye factor- Ruth, Bonds and Trout. Low eye rating- Ichiro, Gwynn, Carew. Hmmm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's very straightforward, EYE = walks.

[Coriolanus]

Eye is walks, but it is also refusing to swing at junk.


It's not a meta people explore much, but it's possible to wear out a team's bullpen with enough ultra-high Eye guys. This occurs even when they do not get walks and imo is perhaps one of the counters to the "low stuff/high mov&con"-meta.


As such Eye probably is best considered (like the rock/paper/scissors) in the context of your other team players.


If you have a lot of low Eye guys, maybe you go that way to even things out so you aren't as susceptible to junk throwers with good control, which the game seems to kinda favor.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by chazzycat

Basically there are 3 ratings included within "contact":

1) BABIP. this is hidden to the user and would affect a player's BABIP (batting average on balls in play)
2) Avoid K. this is shown to the user and affects how often a player strikes out
3) Power. This is shown to the user and affects home runs but ALSO is a component to the contact rating, though smaller than the other two.

So if you see a player with a big CONTACT rating, but their avoid K and power are both low, you can reasonably infer they have a high BABIP rating.

Yeah, I think I could go so far as to say that Power's influence on Contact is literally just "this guy will hit 30 homeruns per year, so that's 30 more hits per year, so that bumps his batting average up by X points". Contact is meant to mean batting average and it's a pretty decent score for that for modern day play.

[Spieler]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Yeah, I think I could go so far as to say that Power's influence on Contact is literally just "this guy will hit 30 homeruns per year, so that's 30 more hits per year, so that bumps his batting average up by X points". Contact is meant to mean batting average and it's a pretty decent score for that for modern day play.

Technically, it is 30 less balls in play. But automatic hits which affect average and thus Contact.

[daves]

Originally Posted by chazzycat

It's very straightforward, EYE = walks.

Yes. Walk or pitch around Bonds, Ruth or Trout to face a lessor batter. If you fall behind 2-0 to these guys, don't give them something they can hit. But I am more willing to pitch to Ichiro since he won't take me out of the park as easily.

I think great Contact hitters don't have a great eye rating because pitchers don't fear them as much. But Mr. Ruth can take his base, I'm not pitching to him.

[chazzycat]

Yeah of course, that is part of how baseball works. I'm just saying with regards to the game engine, it's pretty cut & dry.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by daves

I think great Contact hitters don't have a great eye rating because pitchers don't fear them as much. But Mr. Ruth can take his base, I'm not pitching to him.

This is fantasizing

Eye is a representation of the number of walks a player takes. That's it.

[Syd Thrift]

There are also power hitters out there who swing at anything and don’t draw a lot of walks. Vlad Guerrero and Cory Snyder come to mind. On the flip side, Ted Williams was actually criticized for taking too many walks; sportswriters (who I’m convinced we’re all as hot takey as Skip Bayless back then) said he should be driving in runners himself, not saving them for the next guy.

Anyway, yeah, Eye = walks. As noted, you can also make teams go deep into their bullpens with a team of high Eye players because they’ll take more pitches and extend innings more often than guys with low Eye ratings.

[DonMattingly]

Originally Posted by daves

Yes. Walk or pitch around Bonds, Ruth or Trout to face a lessor batter. If you fall behind 2-0 to these guys, don't give them something they can hit. But I am more willing to pitch to Ichiro since he won't take me out of the park as easily.

I think great Contact hitters don't have a great eye rating because pitchers don't fear them as much. But Mr. Ruth can take his base, I'm not pitching to him.

Someone like Wade Boggs though should have a really high Eye rating and he always seems to get shorted in OOTP.

[Drivehud.com]

Originally Posted by chazzycat

Avoid K does matter quite a bit in PT, particularly at the higher levels, but generally speaking eye is still more important.

Avoid K's is more important as you move up,for sure. At lower levels, it's great when defenses aren't as good because you'll put more batted balls into play. At higher levels it seems to matter even more when you're facing 100 pedro's and hubbel's every game.

Also avoid K's creates less variance for hitters from what I can gather thus far.

It's fascinating that the dev team doesn't have complete explanations (minimal in the manual) for a lot of these things, and everyone in here just kind of guesses. I get a kick out of that as someone who owns a software company myself. Especially considering the amount of money some people are spending on this game.