|
||||
|
|
OOTP 25 - General Discussions Everything about the brand new 25th Anniversary Edition of Out of the Park Baseball - officially licensed by MLB, the MLBPA, KBO and the Baseball Hall of Fame. |
![]() |
|
Thread Tools |
![]() |
#221 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In A Van Down By The River
Posts: 2,578
Infractions: 0/1 (1)
|
Quote:
Was recal done every year or was the lock league settings option selected? Not sure the point of telling us the displayed ratings and not the real ones. 80/80 is only a cosmetic number. In one league that could be a 500 rating, in another 250. As for the number of 80 overall, that means very little. You want more then don't have overall ratings for all players. Scouting values also do not reflect WAR in any form. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#222 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,704
|
Also need to turn relative ratings off if you don't want the distribution to seem the same
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#223 | |
Minors (Double A)
Join Date: Mar 2024
Posts: 122
|
Quote:
This is a new standard game at completion. The default. I made no attempt to do anything but play the base game. 80 means nothing - I agree. With 100% scouting on it is just a crude rank/sorting of the players in the sim’s eyes. Earlier we were showing what round those level players came from in the draft. I just kept showing the distribution of how the engine sorts the players. I only have one editor number in this post - what a 95 fastball was in 2100. I intentionally included that. If you would like to compare it to earlier in the game, I believe Hunter Greene has a 95 fastball (with a much higher editor value). Make your own judgements. I did note that there is a large jump at the beginning of the game in k/9 rate during the first generation that goes away as the sim progresses. Again, form your own judgement. I don’t think I said scouting values correlate to WAR. In this entire thread. I don’t think I’ve said it in this post either. Last edited by FantasyDrafter; 04-09-2024 at 12:12 PM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#224 |
Minors (Double A)
Join Date: Mar 2024
Posts: 122
|
There is no question that advanced users can manipulate the engine to get the outcomes they desire. On default I personally thought the distribution was good, just perhaps had fallen off at the last check in 2100 (which is further than most will ever go).
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#225 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In A Van Down By The River
Posts: 2,578
Infractions: 0/1 (1)
|
Quote:
My understanding was the main complaint was players weren't developing and years down the road you were left with subpar talent. This was then confused with how ratings were calculated and how they are trying to be more realistic so ratings aren't as inflated, or at least don't appear as inflated. Underlying ratings would still be true as before. My confusion stems from how everyone uses the 80 scale as absolute ratings to make arguments about things being broken when it's a cosmetic rating at best and proves nothing if there if more or less of a player at that rating. I'm just trying to understand what the real issues are as I have a league that heavy dependent on the development engine so I want to make sure before I import it over that this is a real issue and not just issues with ratings not being as inflated as before so therefore everyone must suck |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#226 | |
Minors (Double A)
Join Date: Mar 2024
Posts: 122
|
Quote:
If you wait until 2040, players are toned down to a level they will generally stay at and because development is so exactly programmed (in my experience) to primarily occur between 20-23/24 you should have a very nice pipeline running. You may find an example in your sim of what I would characterize as a great player (based on in game performance) who does not fit this criteria, but typically development is nothing until 19/20, then in MLB at 22 in the AIs evaluation. Last edited by FantasyDrafter; 04-09-2024 at 01:00 PM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#227 |
Minors (Double A)
Join Date: Mar 2024
Posts: 122
|
Also, my point was almost no records were broken. Strikeouts by batters go crazy and K/9 is really inflated through the 2030s, but otherwise everything fits in very well with MLB history. I would assume most would like that, maybe I’m wrong.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#228 |
Minors (Rookie Ball)
Join Date: Mar 2024
Posts: 49
|
what happens if you crank up new generated incoming players and then severely lower development speed?
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#229 | |
Minors (Double A)
Join Date: Mar 2024
Posts: 122
|
Quote:
It’s been very quiet since the last patch (and it’s been a while) so I’m expecting something relatively soon. At that point I’ll see what I might want to do to play this years version of the game. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#230 |
Minors (Double A)
Join Date: Mar 2024
Posts: 122
|
One other thing from a development/minors progression standpoint:
If you didn’t notice or I didn’t emphasize enough, the AI acts like AA does not exist with its players that it considers ready for MLB at 22/23yo. It is consistently the same pattern - rookie ball for 3-4 years, then A/A+ for 1 year, partial year AAA then in MLB, pitchers start in the pen. I would never do this intuitively and it creates a logjam at the rookie levels. This is probably why the AI is cutting so many young players who are showing up on the Rule 5 drafts at 17-19yo (different thread). AA in the current game is where you stick 45 or lower rated career minor leaguers in the AIs opinion. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#231 | |
All Star Reserve
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 569
Infractions: 0/1 (1)
|
Quote:
Now, it could still be the case that ratings are distributed so as to approximate standard deviation values in not the absolute scale but rather the league-relative scale. I havenÂ’t used my v25 yet, but experience with at least how the player editor operates in previous versions I would need to see this proven to be true before accepting it as such. The conversion from the absolute scale to the relative (again, at least so far as was expressed within the editor) was always (except for perhaps far outlier ratings) a uniform simple mechanical process: 1) Relative scale 2x granularity of absolute scale 2) Relative “average” (however defined) is 50 on relative scale 3) The original absolute 50 is still the point at where a scale shift of equal magnitude occurs on the relative scale for attributes where applicable.*** ***This means that to assess the difference between two ratings for one of these attributes you need to know where the ABSOLUTE 50 is located on the RELATIVE scale. Depending on the league average, two given ratings in one of these attributes on one league’s relative scale can (in the editor, at least) indicate a performance gap up to twice as large as would the same two relative ratings in another league. Really, it is time that OOTP incorporated an option some format of displaying the scout attributes grades as baseball statistics. Put basically, using the editor function (probably the league-relative one) on scouted ratings instead and displaying the translated statistics (perhaps splits, etc., as well) in front-facing UI screens and pop-ups. The tea-leaves reading to try to divine just what your scout is saying is not representative of how any competent organization (baseball or otherwise) communicates internally. Last edited by jcard; 04-09-2024 at 05:56 PM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#232 |
Minors (Triple A)
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 203
|
I'm noticing the same things as FantasyDrafter with regards to prospect development. In my sim to 2124, here are careers of the top 20 generated batters in career WAR:
1. Mike Jarrow - High school infielder drafted 1-3 who played 2B for most of his career with some SS and 1B. 19yo season at rookie ball, 20yo season at A/A+, 21yo season at AAA (57 games) and MLB (79 games). 2. Stephon Jowers - High school infielder drafted 1-2 who played SS before moving to 2B/3B. 19yo season at rookie ball, 20yo season at A/A+, 21yo season at A+ (92 games), and MLB (49 games) with one AA game sprinkled in. 3. Ramiro Mayen - IAFA corner outfielder who signed for 5.7 million. 18yo season at rookie ball, 19yo season at R/A, 20yo season at R/A (with more time spent in rookie ball than his 19yo season), 21yo season at A/A+, 22yo season at AAA (11 games) and MLB (62 games). 4. Mike Cutlip - High school infielder drafted at 1-3 who played 3B before moving to 1B later in his career. 19yo season at rookie ball, 20yo season at rookie ball, 21yo season at rookie ball, 22yo season at A, 23yo season at AAA (97 games) and MLB (45 games). 5. Juan Ontiveros - IAFA infielder signed for 5.7 million who played mostly 2B in the majors. 19yo season at rookie ball, 20yo season at A/A+, 21yo season at AAA, 22yo season at AAA (16 games) and MLB (126 games). 6. Jorge Hueso - IAFA 1B signed for 5.23 million. 18yo season at rookie ball, 19yo season at rookie ball, 20yo season at A, 21yo season at A+ (95 games) AAA (36 games), 22yo season in MLB. 7. Myeong-Wan Kim - IFA 2B who entered the league at 23 and never spent time in the minors. 8. Bob Bruss - HS catcher drafted at 1-5. 19yo season in rookie ball, 20yo season in rookie ball, 21yo season at R/A, 22yo season at A+, 23yo season in MLB. 9. Joel Clark - HS infielder drafted at 1-14 who played mostly 3B in the MLB. 19yo season at rookie ball, 20yo season at rookie ball, 21yo season at rookie ball, 22yo season at A, 23yo season at A+ (115 games), and AAA (53 games), 24yo season in MLB. 10. Juan Irizarry - HS infielder drafted 1-29 who played mostly SS in the MLB. 18yo season at rookie ball, 19yo season at R/A+, 20yo season at R/A, 21yo season at A/A+/AA (only 5 games at AA), 23yo season at AAA (63 games) and MLB (88 games). 11. Chris Henderson - HS infielder drafted 1-18 who played mostly 2B in the MLB. 19yo season at rookie ball, 20yo season at R/A, 21yo season at R/A/A+/AA (only 2 games at AA), 22yo season in MLB. 12. Zach Dominici - HS infielder drafted 1-5 who played mostly SS in the MLB. 18yo season at rookie ball, 19yo season at R/A, 20yo season at R/A+, 21yo season at A/MLB (only 5 games in MLB), 22yo season at AAA (116 games) and MLB (30 games). 13. Frank Orejel - IAFA infielder who signed for 5.7 million and played 3B/SS in the MLB. 18yo season at rookie ball, 19yo season at rookie ball, 20yo season at A/A+, 21yo season at A+ (92 games), AAA (20 games), and MLB (17 games). 22yo season in MLB. 14. Kaleb Freshour - HS infielder drafted 1-5 who played mostly 2B in the MLB. 18yo season at rookie ball, 19yo season at rookie ball, 20yo season at R/A, 21yo season at A+/AAA (30 games in AAA). 22yo season at AAA (9 games) and MLB (76 games). 15. Juan Contreras - IAFA scouting discovery CF. 17yo season in rookie ball, 18yo season at R/A+, 19yo season at R/A+, 20yo season at rookie ball, 21yo season at A/AAA (only 4 games at AAA), 22yo season at AAA (3 games), and MLB (112 games). 16. Alfredo Ramirez - IAFA infielder signed for 5.7 million who played mostly 2B in the MLB. 16yo season at rookie ball, 17yo season at rookie ball, 18yo season at rookie ball, 19yo season at rookie ball, 20yo season at A, 21yo season at A+ (59 games) and AAA (50 games). 22yo season at AAA (60 games) and MLB (92 games). 17. David Lara - IAFA corner outfielder signed for 5.28 million. 18yo season at rookie ball, 19yo season at rookie ball, 20yo season at rookie ball, 21yo season at R/A+, 22yo season at A/AAA/MLB (33 games at AAA, 13 games in MLB), 23yo season at A+/AAA/MLB (41 games at AAA, 40 games in MLB). 18. Steve Morris - College center fielder drafted 1-8. 21yo season at R/A, 22yo season at R/A/A+/AAA (1 game at AAA). 23yo season in MLB. 19. Alfredo De Los Santos - IAFA infielder signed for 5.7 million who played 2B before moving to 1B later in his career. 17yo season at rookie ball, 18yo season at rookie ball, 19yo season at rookie ball, 20yo season at R/A/A+, 21yo season at A+/AAA (33 games at AAA), 22yo season at AAA (2 games) and MLB (126 games). 20. Nate Winters - College infielder drafted 1-1 who played SS in the MLB. 22yo season at A, 23yo season at AAA (35 games) and MLB (73 games). There are almost no AA games played by these 20 players, and in general the progression is 2-3 years in rookie ball, a year at A/A+, followed by a brief stint in AAA before breaking into the MLB. Last edited by greenOak; 04-10-2024 at 05:43 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#233 |
Minors (Triple A)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 277
|
There are almost no AA games played by these 20 players, and in general the progression is 2-3 years in rookie ball, a year at A/A+, followed by a brief stint in AAA before breaking into the MLB.[/QUOTE]
Not one player that wasn't a 1st rounder or big INT FA signing, either. That doesn't mirror real life at all. Top 20 players IRL in WAR from 2019-2024: 1. Mookie Betts: 5th round 2. Aaron Judge: 1st round 3. Freddie Freeman: 2nd round 4. Juan Soto: signed for $1.5m 5. Trea Turner: 1st round 6. Jose Ramirez: signed for 50k 7. Francisco Lindor: 1st round 8. Marcus Semien: 6th round 9. Ronald Acuna Jr.: signed for 100k 10. Xander Bogaerts: signed for 410k 11. Mike Trout: 1st round 12. Alex Bregman: 1st round 13. Jose Altuve: signed for 15k 14. JT Realmuto: 3rd round 15. Nolan Arenado: 2nd round 16. Corey Seager: 1st round 17. Manny Machado: 1st round 18. Paul Goldschmidt: 8th round 19. Rafael Devers: signed for 1.5m 20. Matt Olson: 1st round |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#235 | |
All Star Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,338
|
Quote:
__________________
Check out my Graphic Mods! Full MLB/MiLB Uniform Project (2021+) Thread | Dropbox MLB Ballpark Ads My uniform templates! |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#236 |
Minors (Double A)
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 157
|
TCR will give you draft/growth variation? The developmental settings don't seem to do a thing this year. Regardless, this all worked last year, I assume they have the inside track in fixing it. Maybe it's related to the doubling up of attributes.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#237 | |
Major Leagues
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Caracas
Posts: 308
|
Quote:
In the same way it also happens that players evaluated 70/80 initially do not even pass A+ and end up being 20/20 players. It also happens that established players can have a bump in their career (IRL Justin Turner for example) where the best part of his career has been after the age of 34, and as I mentioned before the opposite happens more often players with 7.0 WAR in one year, the following year they decline so much that they are impossible to keep on the roster for 2 more years. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#238 | |
Major Leagues
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Caracas
Posts: 308
|
Quote:
in summary a high TCR makes players and their ratings more unpredictable (I use TCR at 125) but reading this post in full, I think there are people who don't like that the ratings vary so much. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#239 | ||
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 10,553
|
Quote:
If you bump up TCR you'll get more variance, which is the point of TCR, and I like that that applies both to prospects and to vets (where it's completely possible for a guy to get a TCR or even an age related malus when they're like 32 and then get a separate TCR bump at 33 - this isn't common but when you see a guy go from a .260/30/90 to .200/10/60 and then back to what looks like .270/15/70, that can be what happened (or of course the guy just got HR lucky in year one and hit unluck in year two but, speaking of things that a lot of people don't want to admit...). Also too if you want fewer busts, increase development speed / change the beginning of a player's prime years from 26 to something like 23 or 24. You'll then have too many quality players in the league and you'll be pushing vets out unless you mess with the other settings (personally I have development up to about 1.25 and aging down to around 0.8 but that's more because I don't like the way the game handles aging so much, and also I've found with a TCR set to 150 you still get a good amount of players just turning to crap all of the sudden). There's a thing in here that I think Lukas has talked about where it's going to be really hard to make a development/aging system that works for 2024 but then also works for the 90s and early 2000s, when various older players might have been taking performance enhancing drugs to keep them around longer, or for that matter the 1930s, when there wasn't even a draft and players rarely if ever signed and played for a major league team directly out of college, having to rise through either a huge minor league system (Dodgers, Yankees, Cardinals) or prove themselves in one of a hundred different independent teams and leagues. The game tries to handle 2024. If you remember 45 year olds playing and you want more of that, dial aging down. It's your game.
__________________
Quote:
|
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#240 | |
Major Leagues
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Caracas
Posts: 308
|
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
Bookmarks |
|
|