Turnover in Online Leagues

William4192 · 05-24-2005, 12:07 PM

What is "normal" for turnover in online leagues? Do you see a lot of guys that join too many leagues and then drop the leagues where there team sucks (due to lack of planning) or where "real life" intervenes with their time?

I was thinking about this and it led me to wonder what is exactly normal for turnover per season.

Is one too much or the norm? Is three excessive? Or just about right?

jnshmoo · 05-24-2005, 12:13 PM

I would say that the quality of the league and it's members/commish play a major role in determining this. The better leagues tend to have a lower turnover rate.

Real life does intervene though, and no matter how interesting a league is, things are bound to happen that will cause attrition.

William4192 · 05-24-2005, 12:19 PM

I'm sort of looking for all leagues to put their two cents in how what their turnover rate per season is and maybe taking an average.

Hoeksam · 05-24-2005, 12:31 PM

I'm in the second season of running the WPL (http://fantasysports.chrisfurman.com/wpl) and we had a lot of people leave and/or be removed between years 1 and 2. We went from 14 GM's in year 1 (out of 20 teams), to 5 GM's in year 2 (out of 16 teams).

While that's a lot, I think in actuality, during our first year, we only had about 8 or so active GM's out of the 14 that initially signed up. Still, the loss of that many GM's, I believe, came as a result of a couple of things:

1.) The league premise (too "out there" of an idea... a futuristic league that "starts" in 2153)
2.) All fictional players (most people, I've gathered, play OOTP to use "real" MLB players.. so having a league completely full of fictional players makes it difficult for people to get into)
3.) Using OOTP5 (I'd assume a good 90% of OOTP owners are using OOTP6, so by using v5 -- even though I don't require the owner to use the game -- I've eliminated 90% of all potential GM's. I'm using OOTP5 because I am in another league that uses OOTP5 and didn't want to have to go out and purchase OOTP6, then, if I wanted people from the other league to join my league as well, have them go out and purcahse it as well...)

So between seasons, I sent out a mass e-mail to all of the people that initially signed up for the league, and proceeded onto the second season with those GM's that responded back saying they wanted the league to continue. We're always looking for more GM's, but we have fun with just the small group of us as well...

In the end, I think turnover is a result of a combination of a good league idea that a lot of people are interested in, a group of fairly dedicated GM's (they don't have to live and breath your league, but they have to at least want to participate) and a dedicated commish who keeps the league moving. If you have all three, you won't see much turnover at all.

I agree with jnshmoo, though... no matter how great a league you have, some people will always leave because real life will eventually catch up and call them back to reality. But if you have a solid core already, losing one or two people per season shouldn't be anything the league can't overcome.

tarmer · 05-24-2005, 12:33 PM

I have been running a Fantasy Soccer League very succesfully for about 7 seasons now, We play 1 game a week for like 20-22 weeks - It has been a great success compared to some of the other leagues I have been in, We have managed to retain 95% of the orig. owners. I thought I would give it a try in Baseball

The soccer league has gone thru several growth pains and rule mods, I commish with a fair BUT constant hand, BUT more importantly I have asked the other managers (who really make the league work anyways) to post ideas, thoughts, and wants. I also run any proposed changes for a majority vote. And we sim on a regular & consistant basis.

The quality and longevity will depend on the work put in by all. If it is not worked on and desired by all it will fail. As the commish of any league it is part of your "job" to keep an ear to the ground, watch and listen to what managers are saying in forums and such. Look at the activity of all managers and rather than "firing" see if you can help them out - Life happens and we may not loose interest just the time to participate, Maybe you can put a manager on Hiatus temporaraly till he can get back in.

Sorry.. Long winded.. But it is the managers that make up the league not the "commissioners, rule makers or presidents" you need to keep stimulating and listening to the guys who make your league work...

Yeldarb · 05-24-2005, 12:41 PM

All the leagues that I've been in, whether as a commish or just an owner, always seem to have a core group of guys who have been around for a long time, some from the inception of the league. That's usually about half the league. The other half mostly consists of owners who took over for shaky franchises and have since stuck around for quite awhile.

However, there are usually one or two teams that have a high turnover rate because these guys are either obnoxious/rude/complainers to the point where they get kicked out, guys who think it'd be fun to join a league and then don't participate or guys who are already members of 10 other leagues and they just don't have enough attention to go around. The bad thing is that the high turnover usually results in the team not being good which makes it harder to find an owner who'll stick with it.

There's also owners who will come in a make or take over a team good, but once the team starts to falter or someone else in their division gets strong, they just up and quit because they don't want to rebuild or just not be in a spot to contend.

Like mentioned in a previous post, real life always intervenes so that's always a factor regardless of how good or bad the owner is.

jnshmoo · 05-24-2005, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarmer

I have been running a Fantasy Soccer League very succesfully for about 7 seasons now

What the heck software do you use for that?

tarmer · 05-24-2005, 12:46 PM

Championship Manager..

jnshmoo · 05-24-2005, 12:53 PM

You've managed to keep a league running for that long with CM's awful implementation?

tarmer · 05-24-2005, 12:55 PM

Yup.. and it has been very succesful..As awful as it is, It is better than most of the others..

It is like an OOTP vs Pure Sim debate -

I have posted for openings in this Baseball league... Have had some takers.. Still alot of openings, It is apparent that simming Soccer is easier than Baseball.. Not as many leagues for soccer.... But I will run with what I get ...

http://all-time-baseball.com/geeklog...tml//index.php

05-24-2005, 12:07 PM	#1
William4192 All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 1,625	Turnover in Online Leagues What is "normal" for turnover in online leagues? Do you see a lot of guys that join too many leagues and then drop the leagues where there team sucks (due to lack of planning) or where "real life" intervenes with their time? I was thinking about this and it led me to wonder what is exactly normal for turnover per season. Is one too much or the norm? Is three excessive? Or just about right? __________________ What is this about Rhode Island? It is neither Road or Island. Come check out the PBA. http://www.pioneerbaseballassociation.com Or email at pbacommish@pioneerbaseballassociation.com

05-24-2005, 12:13 PM	#2
jnshmoo All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Not Here Posts: 1,226	I would say that the quality of the league and it's members/commish play a major role in determining this. The better leagues tend to have a lower turnover rate. Real life does intervene though, and no matter how interesting a league is, things are bound to happen that will cause attrition. __________________ Beer Snob and Baseball Sim Geek

05-24-2005, 12:19 PM	#3
William4192 All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 1,625	I'm sort of looking for all leagues to put their two cents in how what their turnover rate per season is and maybe taking an average. __________________ What is this about Rhode Island? It is neither Road or Island. Come check out the PBA. http://www.pioneerbaseballassociation.com Or email at pbacommish@pioneerbaseballassociation.com

05-24-2005, 12:31 PM	#4
Hoeksam Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Ravena, NY Posts: 160	I'm in the second season of running the WPL (http://fantasysports.chrisfurman.com/wpl) and we had a lot of people leave and/or be removed between years 1 and 2. We went from 14 GM's in year 1 (out of 20 teams), to 5 GM's in year 2 (out of 16 teams). While that's a lot, I think in actuality, during our first year, we only had about 8 or so active GM's out of the 14 that initially signed up. Still, the loss of that many GM's, I believe, came as a result of a couple of things: 1.) The league premise (too "out there" of an idea... a futuristic league that "starts" in 2153) 2.) All fictional players (most people, I've gathered, play OOTP to use "real" MLB players.. so having a league completely full of fictional players makes it difficult for people to get into) 3.) Using OOTP5 (I'd assume a good 90% of OOTP owners are using OOTP6, so by using v5 -- even though I don't require the owner to use the game -- I've eliminated 90% of all potential GM's. I'm using OOTP5 because I am in another league that uses OOTP5 and didn't want to have to go out and purchase OOTP6, then, if I wanted people from the other league to join my league as well, have them go out and purcahse it as well...) So between seasons, I sent out a mass e-mail to all of the people that initially signed up for the league, and proceeded onto the second season with those GM's that responded back saying they wanted the league to continue. We're always looking for more GM's, but we have fun with just the small group of us as well... In the end, I think turnover is a result of a combination of a good league idea that a lot of people are interested in, a group of fairly dedicated GM's (they don't have to live and breath your league, but they have to at least want to participate) and a dedicated commish who keeps the league moving. If you have all three, you won't see much turnover at all. I agree with jnshmoo, though... no matter how great a league you have, some people will always leave because real life will eventually catch up and call them back to reality. But if you have a solid core already, losing one or two people per season shouldn't be anything the league can't overcome. __________________ The tower of power, too sweet to be sour... Elite Baseball League - Milwaukee Brewers Right this way, everyone. Free puppies, ginger snaps, pocket PC's... Last edited by Hoeksam; 05-24-2005 at 12:35 PM.

05-24-2005, 12:33 PM	#5
tarmer All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2005 Location: Out in Leftfield Posts: 618	My 2 cents.. I have been running a Fantasy Soccer League very succesfully for about 7 seasons now, We play 1 game a week for like 20-22 weeks - It has been a great success compared to some of the other leagues I have been in, We have managed to retain 95% of the orig. owners. I thought I would give it a try in Baseball The soccer league has gone thru several growth pains and rule mods, I commish with a fair BUT constant hand, BUT more importantly I have asked the other managers (who really make the league work anyways) to post ideas, thoughts, and wants. I also run any proposed changes for a majority vote. And we sim on a regular & consistant basis. The quality and longevity will depend on the work put in by all. If it is not worked on and desired by all it will fail. As the commish of any league it is part of your "job" to keep an ear to the ground, watch and listen to what managers are saying in forums and such. Look at the activity of all managers and rather than "firing" see if you can help them out - Life happens and we may not loose interest just the time to participate, Maybe you can put a manager on Hiatus temporaraly till he can get back in. Sorry.. Long winded.. But it is the managers that make up the league not the "commissioners, rule makers or presidents" you need to keep stimulating and listening to the guys who make your league work...

05-24-2005, 12:41 PM	#6
Yeldarb Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 165	All the leagues that I've been in, whether as a commish or just an owner, always seem to have a core group of guys who have been around for a long time, some from the inception of the league. That's usually about half the league. The other half mostly consists of owners who took over for shaky franchises and have since stuck around for quite awhile. However, there are usually one or two teams that have a high turnover rate because these guys are either obnoxious/rude/complainers to the point where they get kicked out, guys who think it'd be fun to join a league and then don't participate or guys who are already members of 10 other leagues and they just don't have enough attention to go around. The bad thing is that the high turnover usually results in the team not being good which makes it harder to find an owner who'll stick with it. There's also owners who will come in a make or take over a team good, but once the team starts to falter or someone else in their division gets strong, they just up and quit because they don't want to rebuild or just not be in a spot to contend. Like mentioned in a previous post, real life always intervenes so that's always a factor regardless of how good or bad the owner is.

05-24-2005, 12:46 PM	#8
tarmer All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2005 Location: Out in Leftfield Posts: 618	Championship Manager..

05-24-2005, 12:53 PM	#9
jnshmoo All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Not Here Posts: 1,226	You've managed to keep a league running for that long with CM's awful implementation? __________________ Beer Snob and Baseball Sim Geek

05-24-2005, 12:55 PM	#10
tarmer All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2005 Location: Out in Leftfield Posts: 618	Yup.. and it has been very succesful..As awful as it is, It is better than most of the others.. It is like an OOTP vs Pure Sim debate - I have posted for openings in this Baseball league... Have had some takers.. Still alot of openings, It is apparent that simming Soccer is easier than Baseball.. Not as many leagues for soccer.... But I will run with what I get ... http://all-time-baseball.com/geeklog...tml//index.php Last edited by tarmer; 05-24-2005 at 01:02 PM.