Credit for a 3 Inning Save

J P Falcon · 03-03-2002, 05:50 PM

I tried searching for this but in vain, but just a note that 3 inning save opportunites are not be credited to the reliever...The game has been great and is reaching the summit of the best in text based sims...there is a European Football feel in managing of the game that I really enjoy and, as an example, it was uncanny to receive and email from Dunston (Giants) and Van Der Gouw (Man U.) that they were retiring at the end of their current seasons...great job!

JML · 05-05-2002, 07:17 PM

I just ran into this as well:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 R H E
Chicago 0 1 6 0 4 0 0 0 0 11 15 1
St. Louis 1 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 1 5 12 3

PITCHING:

Chicago IP H R ER BB K PI PS ERA RECORD
V. Harville W 6 8 4 4 4 4 98 56 4.64 4-4
R. Farner 3 4 1 1 0 1 37 25 8.31

St. Louis IP H R ER BB K PI PS ERA RECORD
W. Gerson L 4 9 7 4 1 3 83 44 3.32 10-6
M. Eggen 2 4 4 3 2 0 33 18 3.35
J. Stephenson 2 2 0 0 0 2 28 16 2.82
S. Dahlke 1 0 0 0 0 1 11 7 4.03

---Farner was not given a save here.

Peter · 05-06-2002, 01:54 AM

I just finished a game where the reliever came in and pitched 3 innings, with an 11-2 lead, and he got the save. I guess it works sometimes, my reliever, Colome, pitched three perfect innings.

fasteddie_21 · 05-06-2002, 02:11 AM

My question then is this: What are the parameters of a save in the game? Anyone?

Scott Vibert · 05-06-2002, 05:06 AM

I believe the game is not awarding the three inning save if the pitcher gives up a run.

The official rules leave it up to the official scorer to determine if the guy finishing the 3 inning save has "pitched effectively" and apparently according to the OOTP4 official scorer allowing a run in 3 innings is not effective.

Hope this helps.

TPort · 05-06-2002, 06:55 AM

I've had no problem with this and haven't run across the first post situation.

JML · 05-06-2002, 07:34 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ScottVib:
I believe the game is not awarding the three inning save if the pitcher gives up a run.

The official rules leave it up to the official scorer to determine if the guy finishing the 3 inning save has "pitched effectively" and apparently according to the OOTP4 official scorer allowing a run in 3 innings is not effective.

Hope this helps.<hr /></blockquote>I always thought MLB rules say if you finish a game with 3 IP you get a save, despite how many runs you allow (as long as your team wins)

Scott Vibert · 05-06-2002, 07:41 AM

Excerpted from MLB Rule 10.20

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
(c) He pitches effectively for at least three innings.
<hr /></blockquote>The word "effectively" technically places it in the hands of the official scorer, while most official scorers would award the save for one run allowed over 3 innings, apparently the OOTP scorer isn't impressed by such a performance.

Technically not a bug... but certainly not realistic... The Scoring of saves is on the list of issues for Markus's next patch.

CDL Commish · 05-06-2002, 02:02 PM

I believe for a pitcher to qualify for a save, the tying run would have to be in the number 3 hole behind the current batter. So for example, if a team is up by 5 runs and there is a pitching change with 2 men on, then upon completing the game the pitcher would be given the save. I'm not sure but I know it's something like this.

Scott Vibert · 05-06-2002, 02:22 PM

That's not correct...

Here is the rest of MLB Save rule:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
SAVES FOR RELIEF PITCHERS
10.20
Credit a pitcher with a save when he meets all three of the following conditions: (1) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his club; and (2) He is not the winning pitcher; and (3) He qualifies under one of the following conditions: (a) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning; or (b) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat, or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batsmen he faces); or (c) He pitches effectively for at least three innings. No more than one save may be credited in each game.

<hr /></blockquote>In other words with a 5-run lead the bases must be loaded for a batter to be eligible for a save.

Three ways to be eligible.

Pitch at least one complete inning (start to finish) with a 3 run lead.</li>
Come into the game with the tying run, on base, at bat, or on deck.</li>
Pitch effectively for at least 3 innings.
</li>

[ 05-06-2002, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: ScottVib ]

CDL Commish · 05-06-2002, 02:35 PM

Well, I was close! Thanks for the info ScottVib

HolyCow98 · 05-06-2002, 05:32 PM

It's along the same line of when a starting pitcher doesn't pitch atleast 5 innings. The scorer than determines who gets credited for a win. Or atleast that was how I understood the rule.

Scott Vibert · 05-07-2002, 04:04 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by HolyCow98:
It's along the same line of when a starting pitcher doesn't pitch atleast 5 innings. The scorer than determines who gets credited for a win. Or atleast that was how I understood the rule.<hr /></blockquote>That is correct... although in a 4 1/2 or 5 inning rain shortened game the starter only has to go 4 innings to get the win.

Otherwise a starter going less than 5 innings is ineligible for the win (even if he was the best pitcher).

[ 05-07-2002, 09:04 AM: Message edited by: ScottVib ]

KWizard · 05-10-2002, 04:25 PM

Just cause a guy pitches 3 scoreless innings doesn't necessarily mean he pitched "effectively"
Heck, he could get all 9 outs on pickoffs, caught stealings, batting out of order, or runners passing teammates on the basepath. Which brings up the question, what happens if you get the 9 outs without throwing a pitch? Can you pitch "effectively" without actually throwing a pitch?

KWizard · 05-10-2002, 06:05 PM

Nowhere in the rulebook does it say 3 consecutive innings. Just says he has to finish game and pitch 3 innings. So can you pitch effectively and get 3 outs in the 6th, play 1st base during inning 7, and finish off the last 6 batters and get a save?

03-03-2002, 05:50 PM	#1
J P Falcon Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NJ Posts: 406	Credit for a 3 Inning Save I tried searching for this but in vain, but just a note that 3 inning save opportunites are not be credited to the reliever...The game has been great and is reaching the summit of the best in text based sims...there is a European Football feel in managing of the game that I really enjoy and, as an example, it was uncanny to receive and email from Dunston (Giants) and Van Der Gouw (Man U.) that they were retiring at the end of their current seasons...great job!

05-06-2002, 02:11 AM	#4
fasteddie_21 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: May 2002 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 220	My question then is this: What are the parameters of a save in the game? Anyone? __________________ "That wasn't crying, Felix. That was a warning!"

05-06-2002, 07:34 AM	#7
JML Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The act or process of locating. Posts: 2,154	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ScottVib: <strong>I believe the game is not awarding the three inning save if the pitcher gives up a run. The official rules leave it up to the official scorer to determine if the guy finishing the 3 inning save has "pitched effectively" and apparently according to the OOTP4 official scorer allowing a run in 3 innings is not effective. Hope this helps.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I always thought MLB rules say if you finish a game with 3 IP you get a save, despite how many runs you allow (as long as your team wins)

05-06-2002, 07:41 AM	#8
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,210	Excerpted from MLB Rule 10.20 </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> (c) He pitches effectively for at least three innings. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The word "effectively" technically places it in the hands of the official scorer, while most official scorers would award the save for one run allowed over 3 innings, apparently the OOTP scorer isn't impressed by such a performance. Technically not a bug... but certainly not realistic... The Scoring of saves is on the list of issues for Markus's next patch.

05-06-2002, 02:02 PM	#9
CDL Commish Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eau Claire, WI Posts: 140	I believe for a pitcher to qualify for a save, the tying run would have to be in the number 3 hole behind the current batter. So for example, if a team is up by 5 runs and there is a pitching change with 2 men on, then upon completing the game the pitcher would be given the save. I'm not sure but I know it's something like this. __________________ Matt Skutley CDL Commish \| Brewers GM TBA!!!!!!\| Braves GM

05-05-2002, 07:17 PM	#2
JML Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The act or process of locating. Posts: 2,154	I just ran into this as well: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 R H E Chicago 0 1 6 0 4 0 0 0 0 11 15 1 St. Louis 1 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 1 5 12 3 PITCHING: Chicago IP H R ER BB K PI PS ERA RECORD V. Harville W 6 8 4 4 4 4 98 56 4.64 4-4 R. Farner 3 4 1 1 0 1 37 25 8.31 St. Louis IP H R ER BB K PI PS ERA RECORD W. Gerson L 4 9 7 4 1 3 83 44 3.32 10-6 M. Eggen 2 4 4 3 2 0 33 18 3.35 J. Stephenson 2 2 0 0 0 2 28 16 2.82 S. Dahlke 1 0 0 0 0 1 11 7 4.03 ---Farner was not given a save here.

05-06-2002, 01:54 AM	#3
Peter Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bradenton Posts: 182	I just finished a game where the reliever came in and pitched 3 innings, with an 11-2 lead, and he got the save. I guess it works sometimes, my reliever, Colome, pitched three perfect innings.

05-06-2002, 05:06 AM	#5
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,210	I believe the game is not awarding the three inning save if the pitcher gives up a run. The official rules leave it up to the official scorer to determine if the guy finishing the 3 inning save has "pitched effectively" and apparently according to the OOTP4 official scorer allowing a run in 3 innings is not effective. Hope this helps.

05-06-2002, 06:55 AM	#6
TPort Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 109	I've had no problem with this and haven't run across the first post situation.

05-06-2002, 02:22 PM	#10
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,210	That's not correct... Here is the rest of MLB Save rule: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> SAVES FOR RELIEF PITCHERS 10.20 Credit a pitcher with a save when he meets all three of the following conditions: (1) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his club; and (2) He is not the winning pitcher; and (3) He qualifies under one of the following conditions: (a) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning; or (b) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat, or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batsmen he faces); or (c) He pitches effectively for at least three innings. No more than one save may be credited in each game. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In other words with a 5-run lead the bases must be loaded for a batter to be eligible for a save. Three ways to be eligible. </font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Pitch at least one complete inning (start to finish) with a 3 run lead.</font></li> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Come into the game with the tying run, on base, at bat, or on deck.</font></li> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Pitch effectively for at least 3 innings. </font></li> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> <small>[ 05-06-2002, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: ScottVib ]</small>

05-06-2002, 02:35 PM	#11
CDL Commish Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eau Claire, WI Posts: 140	Well, I was close! Thanks for the info ScottVib __________________ Matt Skutley CDL Commish \| Brewers GM TBA!!!!!!\| Braves GM

05-06-2002, 05:32 PM	#12
HolyCow98 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Douglasville, GA Posts: 2,735	It's along the same line of when a starting pitcher doesn't pitch atleast 5 innings. The scorer than determines who gets credited for a win. Or atleast that was how I understood the rule. __________________ NPBL Enjoying its 60th season Georgia GM

05-07-2002, 04:04 AM	#13
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,210	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by HolyCow98: <strong>It's along the same line of when a starting pitcher doesn't pitch atleast 5 innings. The scorer than determines who gets credited for a win. Or atleast that was how I understood the rule.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is correct... although in a 4 1/2 or 5 inning rain shortened game the starter only has to go 4 innings to get the win. Otherwise a starter going less than 5 innings is ineligible for the win (even if he was the best pitcher). <small>[ 05-07-2002, 09:04 AM: Message edited by: ScottVib ]</small>

05-10-2002, 04:25 PM	#14
KWizard Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 30	Just cause a guy pitches 3 scoreless innings doesn't necessarily mean he pitched "effectively" Heck, he could get all 9 outs on pickoffs, caught stealings, batting out of order, or runners passing teammates on the basepath. Which brings up the question, what happens if you get the 9 outs without throwing a pitch? Can you pitch "effectively" without actually throwing a pitch? __________________ NGBL - Milwaukee Brewers FAST - Chicago Cubs CCIBL - San Francisco Giants http://www.ccibl.com/ NSBL - Pittsburgh Pirates http://nsbl.ootp-leagues.com/

05-10-2002, 06:05 PM	#15
KWizard Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 30	Nowhere in the rulebook does it say 3 consecutive innings. Just says he has to finish game and pitch 3 innings. So can you pitch effectively and get 3 outs in the 6th, play 1st base during inning 7, and finish off the last 6 batters and get a save? __________________ NGBL - Milwaukee Brewers FAST - Chicago Cubs CCIBL - San Francisco Giants http://www.ccibl.com/ NSBL - Pittsburgh Pirates http://nsbl.ootp-leagues.com/