Pitcher Trades Patch

British Baseballer · 03-14-2005, 02:28 PM

I have been told there is a patch to fix the pitcher trade bug but cant find a link can anybody help?

Mike Donlin · 03-14-2005, 02:29 PM

There's a pitcher trade bug?

British Baseballer · 03-14-2005, 02:40 PM

So I have been told, it fixes the bug when you trade a reliever and change the status to starter for a moment, so that they become more valuable when added to a trade.

I would have thought i would have heard of this before now so may be bs.

Kaline · 03-14-2005, 02:53 PM

I dont know....why need a patch...just dont do it....

Cardinal Rule · 03-14-2005, 03:19 PM

If I understand correctly, the trade AI *might* be able to be exploited by changing a pitcher to SP and then trying to trade him. But while it may be something that could be tweaked, I personally would not call it a bug. The player evaluation settings can be modified giving you a better or worse chance for trading for a veteran and/or prospect, but you *might* be able to exploit the AI by changing those settings mid-stream. For that matter, you can edit the player ratings, or his contract, or any number of things to exploit the AI. When you get right down to it, while there may be room to improve the trade AI, I would consider this an enhancement rather than a bug fix, and would keep in mind that AI can be programmed to a certain extent but there's almost always going to be a way to exploit it and at that point it is the responsibility of the gamer to do what they feel is right and makes the game enjoyable.

Many find that if the solo play begins to lose the challenge they join an online league where they don't have the concern of whether the AI can be exploited, but whether a fellow human can be exploited.

British Baseballer · 03-14-2005, 03:32 PM

I wonder if/how this will be fixed in the new version? I suppose just not doing it is the easiest bug fix going!

SandMan · 03-14-2005, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by British Baseballer

I wonder if/how this will be fixed in the new version? I suppose just not doing it is the easiest bug fix going!

There really is no fix for this. The game allows you to use the player in either role, so the only fix would be to have pitchers be a starter or reliever with no way of converting. It is just the responsibility of those making the trade against the AI to not change the roles, and for the human owner to evaluate the pitcher more when accepting the trade.

I have picked up a lot of serviceable starters that were converted to relievers by the AI (with endurance ratings of 4 or 5/out of 5). I changed the role back to starter for my teams and had good luck. I don't consider this a cheat since the players were starters for year, changed to relievers late in their careers. I just moved them back to their original roles because of the endurance ratings....

What the game needs to do is to give players different ratings for each role. So if you bump up the reliever to a starter he will be a crappy starter.....too many starters with only two pitches in the game and in real life these guys would only be relievers.....

Cooker · 03-15-2005, 10:51 AM

In real life many young pitchers (who started in the minors) begin their major league careers in the bullpen, usually in long relief, and then eventually switch to starting roles when they mature and prove themselves. Similarly, many older veteran pitchers (i.e., former starters) live out of the bullpen in the twilight of their careers.

Then there are pitchers like Terry Mullholland, guys who switch back and forth from starting to relief depending on their team and its current needs.

For these reasons I think OOTP is realistic not to lock pitchers into one role or another, but to leave it fluid.

In 2004, for example, the Indians started out Jason Davis in the rotation. He went to Buffalo and pitched in relief. The scuttlebutt this year is that Davis will start in the rotation and then move to the bullpen for the big club once C.C. Sabathia is healthy. They're even considering trying him out as a closer this spring. Very fluid.

So I have no problem with either the AI or a human manager changing pitchers' roles in OOTP. It mirrors real life for all but the most established hurlers.

ChuckB · 03-18-2005, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SandMan

There really is no fix for this. The game allows you to use the player in either role, so the only fix would be to have pitchers be a starter or reliever with no way of converting. It is just the responsibility of those making the trade against the AI to not change the roles, and for the human owner to evaluate the pitcher more when accepting the trade.

Not true. The obvious fix would be for the AI to not just look at the pitcher's stated role, but to view the pitcher's role based on his games started. A true reliever will have few, if any, games started. That way, people can't take a reliever and make him a starter just for the purpose of making the trade, just to fool the AI, because the AI won't just be looking at the stated role, but the stats behind it (which is really what you'd realistically like the AI to do anyway...because it's what a human GM would do).

True, if you're serious about playing the game, then just don't do it. But still...these kinds of things just give you less confidence in the AI as a whole, because they're so easily resolved.

Crapshoot · 03-18-2005, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckB

Not true. The obvious fix would be for the AI to not just look at the pitcher's stated role, but to view the pitcher's role based on his games started. A true reliever will have few, if any, games started. That way, people can't take a reliever and make him a starter just for the purpose of making the trade, just to fool the AI, because the AI won't just be looking at the stated role, but the stats behind it (which is really what you'd realistically like the AI to do anyway...because it's what a human GM would do).

True, if you're serious about playing the game, then just don't do it. But still...these kinds of things just give you less confidence in the AI as a whole, because they're so easily resolved.

Or alternatively, look at the pitcher purely by duration. It is true that some pitchers can be 2 star SP's and 2 star RP's - but many a 1 star SP is a 3 star RP. I accept the logic that a pure duration based thing might not work - but perhaps some combination of duration and number of pitches ? a 2 pitch guy is more likely to be a reliever, even if his duration is great - a 4 pitch guy who can start is likely to be retained in that role.

mrbill · 03-18-2005, 04:21 PM

Aren't pitches just eye candy (except for Knuckleball)?

elextrano8 · 03-21-2005, 03:32 PM

I've seen this in my own experiments, but it mostly seems to matter in the case of prospects. For example, sometimes a 5-star relief prospect will remain at five stars when his role is changed to starter, despite the pitchers duration. And the AI will trade you alot more for a starter. Doesn't seem to be an issue, though; as has been stated previously, you just have to not do that and there's no problem

Comedian2004 · 03-21-2005, 05:24 PM

I change people's roles all the time, and I notice that when you have a starter with 4 stars, he will become a more star person if you change him to RP. And the reverse when changed from RP to SP. I never had a problem with this logic.

But I did wonder why you can do this, while you can also do it in spring training. If you do it in spring training, does their endurance increase or do they do a better job after changing roles, that is my question.

And if you change their role to closer, do they grow a fu manchu mustache?

03-14-2005, 02:28 PM	#1
British Baseballer Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: London, England Posts: 77	Pitcher Trades Patch I have been told there is a patch to fix the pitcher trade bug but cant find a link can anybody help? __________________ I have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me. Winston Churchill

03-14-2005, 02:40 PM	#3
British Baseballer Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: London, England Posts: 77	So I have been told, it fixes the bug when you trade a reliever and change the status to starter for a moment, so that they become more valuable when added to a trade. I would have thought i would have heard of this before now so may be bs. __________________ I have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me. Winston Churchill

03-14-2005, 03:19 PM	#5
Cardinal Rule All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Omaha Posts: 1,199	If I understand correctly, the trade AI might be able to be exploited by changing a pitcher to SP and then trying to trade him. But while it may be something that could be tweaked, I personally would not call it a bug. The player evaluation settings can be modified giving you a better or worse chance for trading for a veteran and/or prospect, but you might be able to exploit the AI by changing those settings mid-stream. For that matter, you can edit the player ratings, or his contract, or any number of things to exploit the AI. When you get right down to it, while there may be room to improve the trade AI, I would consider this an enhancement rather than a bug fix, and would keep in mind that AI can be programmed to a certain extent but there's almost always going to be a way to exploit it and at that point it is the responsibility of the gamer to do what they feel is right and makes the game enjoyable. Many find that if the solo play begins to lose the challenge they join an online league where they don't have the concern of whether the AI can be exploited, but whether a fellow human can be exploited. __________________ "Go Crazy Folks!" Jack Buck

03-14-2005, 03:32 PM	#6
British Baseballer Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: London, England Posts: 77	I wonder if/how this will be fixed in the new version? I suppose just not doing it is the easiest bug fix going! __________________ I have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me. Winston Churchill

03-18-2005, 04:21 PM	#11
mrbill All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: LA, CA Posts: 982	Aren't pitches just eye candy (except for Knuckleball)? __________________ UBL - Best Online League Evar! - Los Angeles Dodgers: 25 seasons, 13 NL West titles, 4 WC, 8 NL Titles, 5-time Champs LBB v5 league (retired) - Detroit Tigers/Commish: 19 seasons, 18 straight AL Central titles, 2006, 2008, 2014, 2015 Champs! NGBL v6 league (dead) - Texas Rangers: 10 seasons, 4 AL South titles, 2 Wild Cards, one WS app

03-14-2005, 02:29 PM	#2
Mike Donlin All Star Reserve Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Life, friends, is boring. Posts: 840	There's a pitcher trade bug?

03-14-2005, 02:53 PM	#4
Kaline Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 321	I dont know....why need a patch...just dont do it....

03-15-2005, 10:51 AM	#8
Cooker All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 592	In real life many young pitchers (who started in the minors) begin their major league careers in the bullpen, usually in long relief, and then eventually switch to starting roles when they mature and prove themselves. Similarly, many older veteran pitchers (i.e., former starters) live out of the bullpen in the twilight of their careers. Then there are pitchers like Terry Mullholland, guys who switch back and forth from starting to relief depending on their team and its current needs. For these reasons I think OOTP is realistic not to lock pitchers into one role or another, but to leave it fluid. In 2004, for example, the Indians started out Jason Davis in the rotation. He went to Buffalo and pitched in relief. The scuttlebutt this year is that Davis will start in the rotation and then move to the bullpen for the big club once C.C. Sabathia is healthy. They're even considering trying him out as a closer this spring. Very fluid. So I have no problem with either the AI or a human manager changing pitchers' roles in OOTP. It mirrors real life for all but the most established hurlers.

03-21-2005, 03:32 PM	#12
elextrano8 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fairfax, VA, USA Posts: 49	I've seen this in my own experiments, but it mostly seems to matter in the case of prospects. For example, sometimes a 5-star relief prospect will remain at five stars when his role is changed to starter, despite the pitchers duration. And the AI will trade you alot more for a starter. Doesn't seem to be an issue, though; as has been stated previously, you just have to not do that and there's no problem __________________ Current: BAGL Baltimore Orioles - 2031 & 2032 Champions Prior/Defunct: TWIB Baltimore Orioles 1x World Series Champion SSWB Baltimore Orioles 4x World Series Champions vMLB 2.0 Baltimore Orioles 1x World Series Champion HPBL Baltimore Orioles 2x World Series Champions

03-21-2005, 05:24 PM	#13
Comedian2004 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: In a house in Saint Cloud, Florida. Posts: 7,085	I change people's roles all the time, and I notice that when you have a starter with 4 stars, he will become a more star person if you change him to RP. And the reverse when changed from RP to SP. I never had a problem with this logic. But I did wonder why you can do this, while you can also do it in spring training. If you do it in spring training, does their endurance increase or do they do a better job after changing roles, that is my question. And if you change their role to closer, do they grow a fu manchu mustache? __________________ Like BLUES? Visit www.smokestacklightnin.com, you will LOVE it! New show every Monday!! New Blues HOF![/COLOR][/FONT]