trading in ootp?

mbertolli · 03-02-2005, 02:58 PM

Im new to this game so forgive me if its been asked b4...

Im about half way through the first season with the Toronto Blue Jays(last place) and Ive decided to try and unload some of my many useless players.

So I offered Adrian Burnside (28yrs, 2*,2-7 at AAA, 4.56ERA) to Boston(1st place). To make the deal work they offer up a list of possible players includeing David Ortiz(29yrs, 4.5*, 281 ab, 13HR, 45rbi). This trade seems a little crazy for boston to make as it stands. I then however go through their roster and add to the trade their 2 top prospects as well & they still agree to make the deal! Whats up with that?

Im not sure if I should actully make this deal as it is so obviously unrealistic....

Any ideas? is this a glitch?

Mike.

LoDo · 03-02-2005, 03:07 PM

Sometimes the trade AI acts pretty quirky.

I personally tend to use my better judgement when it comes to trades like that. I shoot for realism so I try not to make any trades that are just too ridiculous.

Steve Kuffrey · 03-02-2005, 03:10 PM

In the league setup there are some adjustable areas in regards to trades, adjust some of those if you aren't pleased with the current trading. Bottom line, join an online league for a more challenging trading experience or check out some real life trades for some amusement. Try searching for trades or trading on the boards if you have some time on your hands.

There ISN'T a perfect game AI trade engine.

jbmagic · 03-02-2005, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Kuffrey

There ISN'T a perfect game AI trade engine.

i think Total pro Basketball 2005 comes very very close. its has a solid AI trade engine

Steve Kuffrey · 03-02-2005, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbmagic

i think Total pro Basketball 2005 comes very very close. its has a solid AI trade engine

Could be, BUT I doubt that you won't find someone who has issue with it or that can find a loophole.

curtlee · 03-02-2005, 03:19 PM

I have noticed that anytime you offer a lower level player to an American League team they offer their DH which some are 4 gold stars and above.

mbertolli · 03-02-2005, 03:26 PM

I agree there is usually a way round the AI in all sims, however this just seems SO crazy that its kind of ruining the whole experiance.

Mike.

Gil Thorp · 03-02-2005, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbmagic

i think Total pro Basketball 2005 comes very very close. its has a solid AI trade engine

It seems pretty good but it's really hard to tell-it's difficult to even offer a trade that doesn't violate the cap rules. And you might remember a thread on the Grey Dog forums where a poster made a multiplayer trade with the principals being Paul Pierce for Dirk Nowitzki. Not very realistic when IRL the Mavs wouldn't even consider Nowitzki in a package for Shaq.

mrbill · 03-02-2005, 03:54 PM

Yeah but a lot of that attachment is sentimental I'd assume, on paper there's not that much difference between Pierce and Nowitzki. Certainly nothing like the giant, unforgivable gap in talent that the original trade in this thread proposes.

jbmagic · 03-02-2005, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gil Thorp

It seems pretty good but it's really hard to tell-it's difficult to even offer a trade that doesn't violate the cap rules. And you might remember a thread on the Grey Dog forums where a poster made a multiplayer trade with the principals being Paul Pierce for Dirk Nowitzki. Not very realistic when IRL the Mavs wouldn't even consider Nowitzki in a package for Shaq.

true, but you got to remember , game dont look at names just rating...

and it depends how Irishhand rated the players on his real nba roster he made.

i find it so far, it hard to rip the AI on trades in total pro basketball 2005.

hopefully ootp 7 can be good too with the new engine.

Gil Thorp · 03-02-2005, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbill

Certainly nothing like the giant, unforgivable gap in talent that the original trade in this thread

Yep. The AI in OOTP can definitely be ripped off if you try.

Ol'Drippy · 03-02-2005, 04:28 PM

Like Steve said, nothing is perfect. If you're worried about it, my advice would be to throw the trading difficulty on very hard and keep a few ground rules, but you may have a more strict interpretation of what's realistic than I do. Just play with the settings and see if you can find something that works.

And there are always horrible trades IRL too. Sometimes I'll take a deal like that and just assume the GM is batsh*t insane, or that Ortiz was kneeing teamates in the nuts for fun and had to go.

Cooker · 03-02-2005, 04:34 PM

The great thing about OOTP is the ability to customize.

Set trading to "very hard." Every time you want to trade a veteran for prospects, first change the game's setting to "favor prospects." Similarly, every time you want to trade prospects for veterans, change the game's setting to "favor veterans." Make yourself work harder to put deals together.

The trade AI isn't perfect, but with a few simple house rules (and common sense) you can avoid making the experience unpleasant.

Hopefully version 7 will improve the trade AI even more.

james17 · 03-02-2005, 05:41 PM

I'm in my first season and have found the trading A/I to be pretty realistic and I only have the difficulty set to Normal. I'd suggest setting the A/I to at that or higher.

As has been said here, trading A/I in a game is never perfect but I think OOTP does a good job compared to other games I've played in the past (e.g., High Heat).

PSUColonel · 03-02-2005, 08:35 PM

The problem is not with the "lists" of players the AI presents that it will give or take in a trade...the problem is when you dive into a teams roster and start throwing more players into the deal. The Ai is unable to see it's being ripped off. TPB and FOF both have great trade engines. The problem is trading is a big part of baseball, and this really needs to be addressed. You can build a winner every year with the trade AI the way it is. The one thing I don't want to hear is:"exercise self control..if you know it's a rip don't do it. IMO this is nothing more than an excuse for fan boys to keep having a reason to play this game in solo mode. Why the hell can't Markus fix the AI issues in his game that really ruin the solo experience? He never has. From stupid trades, to dumb free agent signings , to signing and releasing players-or putting them on the Waiver wire.

dougaiton · 03-02-2005, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

IMO this is nothing more than an excuse for fan boys to keep having a reason to play this game in solo mode. Why the hell can't Markus fix the AI issues in his game that really ruin the solo experience? He never has. From stupid trades, to dumb free agent signings , to signing and releasing players-or putting them on the Waiver wire.

No, it isn't fanboyism. I've been as critical of this game as anyone, but the AI works as it works. It can't be fixed, because it isn't doing anything wrong, per se.

It just calculates value in a certain way, and that leads to it acting weirdly. For example, team X sign Eric Young for 750k, 1 year in FA. Eric Young's contact slips by a point or two before the start of the season. Suddenly, Young isn't worth 750k anymore. Or a player in AAA gets a wee boost, and is more valuable than Young, even -750k. The AI makes the mathematical decision, that based on value or changes in value, that Eric Young should be cut. The fact that he has just been signed shouldn't come into it - if the Red Sox cut Petagine before the start of the season, is Theo guilty of terrible AI, or taking a chance on a FA that didn't pick up.

Every player has some value, and as value fluctuates slightly from team to team, it stands to reason that in a big league, you can trade any player for a slight upgrade. If you can do that, then any player x can be traded for any player y just by stringing it out long enough.

This isn't apologising for the AI, it's explaining it. Sure, it isn't perfect, but it certainly doesn't ruin the game as a solo experience, unless you are unable to resist the temptation to maximise the AI's flaws. The AI, as it stands, is liable to make odd moves because of the way it values production. That can be annoying, but it isn't fixable until 7.

The only thing we should be pissed off about is that the game still doesn't have any concept of 'contenders' or 'non-contenders', when this would have been a piece of cake. Teams could just have individual 'favour vets' or 'favour prospects' sliders. That is fixable.

Malleus Dei · 03-03-2005, 09:45 AM

My thoughts on this are pretty much the same as Doug's.

If we get configurable GM's for each team in OOTP7 - which we should - the GM's could be set for trade characteristics as well as player preference (e.g., the Oakland GM is very hard to trade with and prefers high OBP players and low salaries, the New York GM is easy to trade with and prefers high SLG players and doesn't mind high salaries, etc.)

03-02-2005, 02:58 PM	#1
mbertolli Bat Boy Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6	trading in ootp? Im new to this game so forgive me if its been asked b4... Im about half way through the first season with the Toronto Blue Jays(last place) and Ive decided to try and unload some of my many useless players. So I offered Adrian Burnside (28yrs, 2,2-7 at AAA, 4.56ERA) to Boston(1st place). To make the deal work they offer up a list of possible players includeing David Ortiz(29yrs, 4.5, 281 ab, 13HR, 45rbi). This trade seems a little crazy for boston to make as it stands. I then however go through their roster and add to the trade their 2 top prospects as well & they still agree to make the deal! Whats up with that? Im not sure if I should actully make this deal as it is so obviously unrealistic.... Any ideas? is this a glitch? Mike.

03-02-2005, 03:10 PM	#3
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,035	In the league setup there are some adjustable areas in regards to trades, adjust some of those if you aren't pleased with the current trading. Bottom line, join an online league for a more challenging trading experience or check out some real life trades for some amusement. Try searching for trades or trading on the boards if you have some time on your hands. There ISN'T a perfect game AI trade engine. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

03-02-2005, 03:19 PM	#6
curtlee Bat Boy Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: North Carolina Posts: 2	trades problems I have noticed that anytime you offer a lower level player to an American League team they offer their DH which some are 4 gold stars and above. __________________ http://www.curtman.com

03-02-2005, 03:54 PM	#9
mrbill All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: LA, CA Posts: 982	Yeah but a lot of that attachment is sentimental I'd assume, on paper there's not that much difference between Pierce and Nowitzki. Certainly nothing like the giant, unforgivable gap in talent that the original trade in this thread proposes. __________________ UBL - Best Online League Evar! - Los Angeles Dodgers: 25 seasons, 13 NL West titles, 4 WC, 8 NL Titles, 5-time Champs LBB v5 league (retired) - Detroit Tigers/Commish: 19 seasons, 18 straight AL Central titles, 2006, 2008, 2014, 2015 Champs! NGBL v6 league (dead) - Texas Rangers: 10 seasons, 4 AL South titles, 2 Wild Cards, one WS app

03-02-2005, 04:28 PM	#12
Ol'Drippy Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 190	Like Steve said, nothing is perfect. If you're worried about it, my advice would be to throw the trading difficulty on very hard and keep a few ground rules, but you may have a more strict interpretation of what's realistic than I do. Just play with the settings and see if you can find something that works. And there are always horrible trades IRL too. Sometimes I'll take a deal like that and just assume the GM is batsh*t insane, or that Ortiz was kneeing teamates in the nuts for fun and had to go. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Ben Franklin

03-02-2005, 03:07 PM	#2
LoDo Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 68	Sometimes the trade AI acts pretty quirky. I personally tend to use my better judgement when it comes to trades like that. I shoot for realism so I try not to make any trades that are just too ridiculous.

03-02-2005, 03:26 PM	#7
mbertolli Bat Boy Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6	I agree there is usually a way round the AI in all sims, however this just seems SO crazy that its kind of ruining the whole experiance. Mike.

03-02-2005, 04:34 PM	#13
Cooker All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 592	The great thing about OOTP is the ability to customize. Set trading to "very hard." Every time you want to trade a veteran for prospects, first change the game's setting to "favor prospects." Similarly, every time you want to trade prospects for veterans, change the game's setting to "favor veterans." Make yourself work harder to put deals together. The trade AI isn't perfect, but with a few simple house rules (and common sense) you can avoid making the experience unpleasant. Hopefully version 7 will improve the trade AI even more.

03-02-2005, 05:41 PM	#14
james17 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,305	I'm in my first season and have found the trading A/I to be pretty realistic and I only have the difficulty set to Normal. I'd suggest setting the A/I to at that or higher. As has been said here, trading A/I in a game is never perfect but I think OOTP does a good job compared to other games I've played in the past (e.g., High Heat).

03-02-2005, 08:35 PM	#15
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,136	The problem is not with the "lists" of players the AI presents that it will give or take in a trade...the problem is when you dive into a teams roster and start throwing more players into the deal. The Ai is unable to see it's being ripped off. TPB and FOF both have great trade engines. The problem is trading is a big part of baseball, and this really needs to be addressed. You can build a winner every year with the trade AI the way it is. The one thing I don't want to hear is:"exercise self control..if you know it's a rip don't do it. IMO this is nothing more than an excuse for fan boys to keep having a reason to play this game in solo mode. Why the hell can't Markus fix the AI issues in his game that really ruin the solo experience? He never has. From stupid trades, to dumb free agent signings , to signing and releasing players-or putting them on the Waiver wire.