Scott Boras and MRs in OOTP 6

mrbill · 02-07-2005, 01:17 AM

I figure its been brought up, but I've finally gone through an arbitration period in an online leauge, and the arbitration awards to MRs are outrageous.

I have two above average rating MRs, who had 2.5 ERAs last season, and they were awarded 4+ million. My 19-8 3.05, all 93+ rating 25 year old SP only got 4.7 million, and a 32 year old, 60s-70s rated, 2.4 ERA MR got 4.3 million.

Between two MRs, they jumped from just over $3 mil combined in OOTP 5 awards last year, to over $8 million, throwing my delicately balanced team finances into disarray.

I guess I have no hope of seeing it fixed soon, but I just thought I'd get it out there as a beta tester of OOTP 6.

Ktulu · 02-07-2005, 03:07 PM

You should learn what arbitration is. A player enterring his first year of arbitration will get less than a player in his 3rd year. The players you are comparing are not comparables.

mrbill · 02-07-2005, 03:11 PM

No, but I can compare my Ace SP to a MR who had a year better than his ratings would suggest, and considering they got only 400K different, that shows something is wrong to me.

By getting over 4 million in arbitration, that probably puts his true worth at what, 7-8 million?

The real issue is that a good MR season can be just as much luck as talent, since there are so few innings pitched, but the "stars" rating doesn't factor that, or the fact that the guy is just an MR.

I know what arbitration is, and the fact that this MR got more than some very good starters and position players in the league, many in their 2nd or 3rd year of arbitration, is fairly unacceptable.

mrbill · 02-07-2005, 03:19 PM

The ratings on this MR in question are 62/58/65 (that's 3.5 stars without stats involved in this league), easily the 3rd and maybe 4th best in my pen. He had a 1.24 WHIP in 44 IP, average but solid, but managed 6 unearned runs out of his 17 allowed and so his ERA was 2.23 this last year instead of 3.5 or 4 like he deserved.

This exceptional luck in fairly few innings got him a $3.4 million raise?

I like the game, I just get frusterated with things that used to work and now don't (in this case, its star ratings based on stats that now over-influence arbitration awards for MR).

I'm not looking for an answer, I'm fairly sure there isn't one thats logical, I'm just reporting it to be looked at for the next update.

Ktulu · 02-07-2005, 03:21 PM

A player in his first year of arbitration will NOT get anything near what his true free agent value would be. He won't get that amount until his 3rd year, which is why your MRs are getting 4 million dollars(which is perfectly reasonable) and your 25 year old SP only got 4.7m.

There is nothing wrong with relievers being awarded 4 million dollar contracts and there is nothing wrong with a 25 year old starting pitcher getting 4.7 even if he is one of the better pitchers in the league.

BTW, what are your player evaluation settings?

mrbill · 02-07-2005, 03:24 PM

This is hard to believe, that he gets such a raise just for being in his 3rd year of arbitration. Middle relievers in OOTP don't make more than $4 million very often, and they better be really good to get that much. This guy is far from that good, and I think the arbiters would be able to distinguish luck from talent.

The evaluation is defaults, whatever they are, the league settings are locked so I can't verify for sure.

mrbill · 02-07-2005, 03:26 PM

This coupled with the fact that other players of mine are getting consistent awards even in their 3rd year of arbitration, my Ace SP has gotten 4.7 every year, as well as my 1B who has received 5 on the dot every year (this being his 3rd as well), and my CF who gets 4.2 in his 2nd and 3rd year.

I don't buy the reasoning. I think it holds true in real life and it probably should work that way, but I haven't seen it in any other case but MRs, so I don't think its meant to be that way.

Ktulu · 02-07-2005, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Middle relievers in OOTP don't make more than $4 million very often, and they better be really good to get that much.

I'm not so sure of that. We're in free agency in the WHBL and there are a bunch of relievers who are asking for more than 8million.

mrbill · 02-07-2005, 03:35 PM

I think its safe to say that's new to OOTP 6 in this system as well. I'm not sure when it started happening, but OOTP 5 relievers were much more modest about their position and salary demands. Hence the title "Scott Boras and MRs in OOTP 6".

In real life, closers may garner that high of a salary (8 million), but then only the biggest names. Even very good middle relievers, Tom Gordon for example, don't make more than 4 million.

Browse through inflated MLB salary numbers, and even on the Yankees only one MR cracks 4 million, Steve Karsay.

Jayzone · 02-08-2005, 02:04 AM

I just wanted to say that if OOTP only award FA contracts according to actual production (VORP, RAR, or run prevention scaled with run importance, etc.), then relief pitchers (except closers) will probably not be rewarded with some 8 mil contracts. (Same principle applies to the asking price from FAs)

Well, I can only hope...

02-07-2005, 01:17 AM	#1
mrbill All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: LA, CA Posts: 982	Scott Boras and MRs in OOTP 6 I figure its been brought up, but I've finally gone through an arbitration period in an online leauge, and the arbitration awards to MRs are outrageous. I have two above average rating MRs, who had 2.5 ERAs last season, and they were awarded 4+ million. My 19-8 3.05, all 93+ rating 25 year old SP only got 4.7 million, and a 32 year old, 60s-70s rated, 2.4 ERA MR got 4.3 million. Between two MRs, they jumped from just over $3 mil combined in OOTP 5 awards last year, to over $8 million, throwing my delicately balanced team finances into disarray. I guess I have no hope of seeing it fixed soon, but I just thought I'd get it out there as a beta tester of OOTP 6.

02-07-2005, 03:07 PM	#2
Ktulu Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: BC Posts: 4,507	You should learn what arbitration is. A player enterring his first year of arbitration will get less than a player in his 3rd year. The players you are comparing are not comparables. __________________ "The ice is getting even more thinner, my friend!"

02-07-2005, 03:19 PM	#4
mrbill All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: LA, CA Posts: 982	The ratings on this MR in question are 62/58/65 (that's 3.5 stars without stats involved in this league), easily the 3rd and maybe 4th best in my pen. He had a 1.24 WHIP in 44 IP, average but solid, but managed 6 unearned runs out of his 17 allowed and so his ERA was 2.23 this last year instead of 3.5 or 4 like he deserved. This exceptional luck in fairly few innings got him a $3.4 million raise? I like the game, I just get frusterated with things that used to work and now don't (in this case, its star ratings based on stats that now over-influence arbitration awards for MR). I'm not looking for an answer, I'm fairly sure there isn't one thats logical, I'm just reporting it to be looked at for the next update. Last edited by mrbill; 02-07-2005 at 03:22 PM.

02-07-2005, 03:21 PM	#5
Ktulu Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: BC Posts: 4,507	A player in his first year of arbitration will NOT get anything near what his true free agent value would be. He won't get that amount until his 3rd year, which is why your MRs are getting 4 million dollars(which is perfectly reasonable) and your 25 year old SP only got 4.7m. There is nothing wrong with relievers being awarded 4 million dollar contracts and there is nothing wrong with a 25 year old starting pitcher getting 4.7 even if he is one of the better pitchers in the league. BTW, what are your player evaluation settings? __________________ "The ice is getting even more thinner, my friend!"

02-07-2005, 03:35 PM	#9
mrbill All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: LA, CA Posts: 982	I think its safe to say that's new to OOTP 6 in this system as well. I'm not sure when it started happening, but OOTP 5 relievers were much more modest about their position and salary demands. Hence the title "Scott Boras and MRs in OOTP 6". In real life, closers may garner that high of a salary (8 million), but then only the biggest names. Even very good middle relievers, Tom Gordon for example, don't make more than 4 million. Browse through inflated MLB salary numbers, and even on the Yankees only one MR cracks 4 million, Steve Karsay. Last edited by mrbill; 02-07-2005 at 03:37 PM.

02-07-2005, 03:11 PM	#3
mrbill All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: LA, CA Posts: 982	No, but I can compare my Ace SP to a MR who had a year better than his ratings would suggest, and considering they got only 400K different, that shows something is wrong to me. By getting over 4 million in arbitration, that probably puts his true worth at what, 7-8 million? The real issue is that a good MR season can be just as much luck as talent, since there are so few innings pitched, but the "stars" rating doesn't factor that, or the fact that the guy is just an MR. I know what arbitration is, and the fact that this MR got more than some very good starters and position players in the league, many in their 2nd or 3rd year of arbitration, is fairly unacceptable.

02-07-2005, 03:24 PM	#6
mrbill All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: LA, CA Posts: 982	This is hard to believe, that he gets such a raise just for being in his 3rd year of arbitration. Middle relievers in OOTP don't make more than $4 million very often, and they better be really good to get that much. This guy is far from that good, and I think the arbiters would be able to distinguish luck from talent. The evaluation is defaults, whatever they are, the league settings are locked so I can't verify for sure.

02-07-2005, 03:26 PM	#7
mrbill All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: LA, CA Posts: 982	This coupled with the fact that other players of mine are getting consistent awards even in their 3rd year of arbitration, my Ace SP has gotten 4.7 every year, as well as my 1B who has received 5 on the dot every year (this being his 3rd as well), and my CF who gets 4.2 in his 2nd and 3rd year. I don't buy the reasoning. I think it holds true in real life and it probably should work that way, but I haven't seen it in any other case but MRs, so I don't think its meant to be that way.

02-08-2005, 02:04 AM	#10
Jayzone All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 706	I just wanted to say that if OOTP only award FA contracts according to actual production (VORP, RAR, or run prevention scaled with run importance, etc.), then relief pitchers (except closers) will probably not be rewarded with some 8 mil contracts. (Same principle applies to the asking price from FAs) Well, I can only hope...