This tradings seems a bit...excessive

mtw · 03-07-2002, 09:34 AM

This is going to be a long post, but necessary to explain my concern (you can skip ahead to July 30 & 31 for the meat of this):

Here are the trading deadline trades of my most recent simmed season:

Monday 7/29/2002 :
Minnesota: Free agent 1B Jonathan Edwards has been signed to a contract of
$364,800 per year, for 1 year.

Detroit: Put P Jamie Moyer on the trading block.
Trade between Boston and Detroit :
Detroit gets :
1B Tino Martinez
P Francis Vella
Boston gets :
C Benjamin Mandujano

Trade between Boston and New York (N) :
New York (N) gets :
P Matthew Petway
Boston gets :
1B Wayne Johnson

Trade between Milwaukee and Boston :
Boston gets :
3B Samuel Perez
Milwaukee gets :
C Benjamin Mandujano
P Albert Saavedra

Trade between Milwaukee and Boston :
Boston gets :
C Leon Silva
P Albert Saavedra
Milwaukee gets :
3B Victor Kreitzer

Trade between New York (A) and St. Louis :
St. Louis gets :
CF Joe Limon
New York (A) gets :
SS Frankie Pena

Trade between San Diego and New York (A) :
New York (A) gets :
CF George Naugle
San Diego gets :
SS Alex Ramirez

Trade between Milwaukee and Chicago (N) :
Chicago (N) gets :
C Benjamin Mandujano
Milwaukee gets :
2B Ray Durham
P Corey Kulas

Trade between Minnesota and St. Louis :
St. Louis gets :
1B Jamar Gula
Minnesota gets :
2B Leandro Santiago

Trade between St. Louis and New York (N) :
New York (N) gets :
P Sylvester Mendoza
P Alfredo Dorazio
St. Louis gets :
SS Alvin Manriquez

Trade between Chicago (N) and Minnesota :
Minnesota gets :
CF Preston Wilson
Chicago (N) gets :
2B Leandro Santiago

Trade between St. Louis and Chicago (N) :
Chicago (N) gets :
CF Mark Kotsay
P Larry Feldman
St. Louis gets :
2B Leandro Santiago

Trade between Seattle and Detroit :
Detroit gets :
SS Charlie Iraheta
Seattle gets :
1B Tino Martinez
P Jesse Labonte

Tuesday 7/30/2002 :
Trade between Detroit and Philadelphia :
Philadelphia gets :
CF Ken Griffey, Jr.
Detroit gets :
1B Carlos Delgado

Trade between Detroit and Philadelphia :
Philadelphia gets :
1B Carlos Delgado
Detroit gets :
CF Ken Griffey, Jr.
P William Castaneda

Trade between Detroit and Philadelphia :
Philadelphia gets :
CF Ken Griffey, Jr.
P Francis Vella
Detroit gets :
1B Carlos Delgado

Trade between St. Louis and Philadelphia :
Philadelphia gets :
1B Jamar Gula
St. Louis gets :
P Vincent Salguero
P Jesus Pascarella

Trade between Philadelphia and Detroit :
Detroit gets :
LF Ray Lankford
P Forrest Stout
Philadelphia gets :
1B Carlos Delgado

Trade between Detroit and Minnesota :
Minnesota gets :
1B Charles Licata
Detroit gets :
CF Larry Richardson

Trade between Texas and Philadelphia :
Philadelphia gets :
LF Ryan Klesko
Texas gets :
1B Carlos Delgado
P Oscar Hardy

Trade between Seattle and Detroit :
Detroit gets :
CF Diego Gomez
P Jesse Labonte
Seattle gets :
3B Gustavo Calabro

Wednesday 7/31/2002 :
Trade between Philadelphia and Minnesota :
Minnesota gets :
2B Vincent Morales
Philadelphia gets :
P Christopher Takacs
P Christian Molina

Trade between Detroit and Texas :
Texas gets :
LF Ray Lankford
P Forrest Stout
Detroit gets :
1B Carlos Delgado

Trade between Detroit and New York (N) :
New York (N) gets :
P Steven Ludwick
Detroit gets :
3B Felipe Cavazos

Trade between Texas and Detroit :
Detroit gets :
LF Ray Lankford
Texas gets :
1B Carlos Delgado

Trade between Detroit and Texas :
Texas gets :
LF Ray Lankford
Detroit gets :
1B Carlos Delgado

Trade between Texas and Detroit :
Detroit gets :
LF Ray Lankford
Texas gets :
1B Carlos Delgado

So if you've read this, you probably see my concern. If it wasn't so funny, I'd probably be more peeved than I am. At the deadline, Carlos Delgado got swapped 9 times, including three times on one day between the same 2 teams (for Ken Griffey, Jr.), and 4 times on the last day between the same two teams, with these teams swapping Ray Lankford for Delgado each time (and for good measure one time the day before, for a total of 5 Ray Lankford for Carlos Delgado trades in two days between the same two teams.)

Other interesting notes: besides the three Griffey for Delgado trades, Griffey seems to have lost value to BOTH teams after the initial trade, as a throw-in prospect was necessary to complete the last to Griffey-for-Delgado swaps (his hammy acted up on his way to Philly?).

It seems that the computer creates a "hole" on its team, and then fills the "hole" with the same thing it took away to create the hole in the first place (a similar player, if not the same one).

Besides the obvious concerns, another concern is that the trading frequency was set to Very Low and the league only has 16 teams. July 29th alone had more trades (12) than I would have liked to see for the entire season, much less the deadline.

On the bright side, I love the fact that the teams that are out of it will shop their players at the deadline, and the trades made (looking at team needs and player ratings) are generally sound. I also like the "three-team swap" of a player acquired being immediately dealt to another team (albeit usually to fill the hole created by the initial trade.)

I would like to see the number of trades drastically reduced, and of course not involve the same player beween two teams 4 or 5 times.

[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: mtw ]

Broth32 · 03-07-2002, 09:42 AM

mtw.. this is post-patch?

Steve Kuffrey · 03-07-2002, 10:14 AM

If there is too much trading for you then lower the trade frequency in the league setup, some folks like to see alot of player movement.

Maple Leafs · 03-07-2002, 10:20 AM

I've never seen anything this extreme, but I'm in 2009 now and I notice that several players have been traded several times in the same season (usually once in the off-season, and once at the deadline).

I've also had teams trade (or offer to trade) big-ticket free agents that they'd just signed.

It seems that an easy fix for this would be an FOF-style limitation where the CPU refuses to trade someone who was just acquired.

Dwolfson20 · 03-07-2002, 10:21 AM

[quote] If there is too much trading for you then lower the trade frequency in the league setup, some folks like to see alot of player movement. <hr></blockquote>

Actually, if you would read his entire posting, he stated that his trading frequency was set to Very Low.

Dokken · 03-07-2002, 10:45 AM

While I agree thats a little TOO much trading....I like to see the AI making moves. Would you rather it not move at all?

What I dont understand,and this has happened with OOTP3's pinch hitting AI,is that Markus says he has a patch that will fix it...and it never does.

Now I dont want to sound like Im jumping on Markus,God knows he is busy enough as it is,but I really dont like to be told somethings fixed when it is obviously NOT fixed. Same thing with the Pinch Hitting AI.

Oh well...Im through complaining....for now

mtw · 03-07-2002, 11:50 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Broth32:
mtw.. this is post-patch?<hr></blockquote>

Yup.

mtw · 03-07-2002, 11:56 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Dokken:
While I agree thats a little TOO much trading....I like to see the AI making moves. Would you rather it not move at all?
<hr></blockquote>

Hardly. I like to see player trades, but I don't want two or three trades per team during a season; I like a little stability with my league, and I lowered the trading frequency to Very Low to accomplish that. It didn't work in this instance, but maybe it will in future seasons.

In any event, there should never be occasion for a player to be traded back and forth bewteen the same two teams 4 times in one day and 5 times in two days.

troy · 03-07-2002, 11:56 AM

ive seen players traded on the same day to same teams.. but nothing to that extreme extent. My trades are set on Low and there are way too many trades as well. Id hate to see what Very High would do. Maybe its the OOTP2 bug all over again where the Very Quick Hook actually meant Very Slow... so if you set trading frequency to Very High there would be no trades? i havent tried it out.

mtw · 03-07-2002, 01:34 PM

I just simmed another three "test" seasons. After a couple of seasons with very few trades

the last season just had another flurry of same player for same player swaps between two teams. Ken Griffey, Jr. was traded for Jose Ortiz 14 times at the deadline. Also, Vlad Guerrero was traded by the Cubs and then traded back to the Cubs for a different player on the same day.

03-07-2002, 09:34 AM	#1
mtw All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 653	This tradings seems a bit...excessive This is going to be a long post, but necessary to explain my concern (you can skip ahead to July 30 & 31 for the meat of this): Here are the trading deadline trades of my most recent simmed season: Monday 7/29/2002 : Minnesota: Free agent 1B Jonathan Edwards has been signed to a contract of $364,800 per year, for 1 year. Detroit: Put P Jamie Moyer on the trading block. Trade between Boston and Detroit : Detroit gets : 1B Tino Martinez P Francis Vella Boston gets : C Benjamin Mandujano Trade between Boston and New York (N) : New York (N) gets : P Matthew Petway Boston gets : 1B Wayne Johnson Trade between Milwaukee and Boston : Boston gets : 3B Samuel Perez Milwaukee gets : C Benjamin Mandujano P Albert Saavedra Trade between Milwaukee and Boston : Boston gets : C Leon Silva P Albert Saavedra Milwaukee gets : 3B Victor Kreitzer Trade between New York (A) and St. Louis : St. Louis gets : CF Joe Limon New York (A) gets : SS Frankie Pena Trade between San Diego and New York (A) : New York (A) gets : CF George Naugle San Diego gets : SS Alex Ramirez Trade between Milwaukee and Chicago (N) : Chicago (N) gets : C Benjamin Mandujano Milwaukee gets : 2B Ray Durham P Corey Kulas Trade between Minnesota and St. Louis : St. Louis gets : 1B Jamar Gula Minnesota gets : 2B Leandro Santiago Trade between St. Louis and New York (N) : New York (N) gets : P Sylvester Mendoza P Alfredo Dorazio St. Louis gets : SS Alvin Manriquez Trade between Chicago (N) and Minnesota : Minnesota gets : CF Preston Wilson Chicago (N) gets : 2B Leandro Santiago Trade between St. Louis and Chicago (N) : Chicago (N) gets : CF Mark Kotsay P Larry Feldman St. Louis gets : 2B Leandro Santiago Trade between Seattle and Detroit : Detroit gets : SS Charlie Iraheta Seattle gets : 1B Tino Martinez P Jesse Labonte Tuesday 7/30/2002 : Trade between Detroit and Philadelphia : Philadelphia gets : CF Ken Griffey, Jr. Detroit gets : 1B Carlos Delgado Trade between Detroit and Philadelphia : Philadelphia gets : 1B Carlos Delgado Detroit gets : CF Ken Griffey, Jr. P William Castaneda Trade between Detroit and Philadelphia : Philadelphia gets : CF Ken Griffey, Jr. P Francis Vella Detroit gets : 1B Carlos Delgado Trade between St. Louis and Philadelphia : Philadelphia gets : 1B Jamar Gula St. Louis gets : P Vincent Salguero P Jesus Pascarella Trade between Philadelphia and Detroit : Detroit gets : LF Ray Lankford P Forrest Stout Philadelphia gets : 1B Carlos Delgado Trade between Detroit and Minnesota : Minnesota gets : 1B Charles Licata Detroit gets : CF Larry Richardson Trade between Texas and Philadelphia : Philadelphia gets : LF Ryan Klesko Texas gets : 1B Carlos Delgado P Oscar Hardy Trade between Seattle and Detroit : Detroit gets : CF Diego Gomez P Jesse Labonte Seattle gets : 3B Gustavo Calabro Wednesday 7/31/2002 : Trade between Philadelphia and Minnesota : Minnesota gets : 2B Vincent Morales Philadelphia gets : P Christopher Takacs P Christian Molina Trade between Detroit and Texas : Texas gets : LF Ray Lankford P Forrest Stout Detroit gets : 1B Carlos Delgado Trade between Detroit and New York (N) : New York (N) gets : P Steven Ludwick Detroit gets : 3B Felipe Cavazos Trade between Texas and Detroit : Detroit gets : LF Ray Lankford Texas gets : 1B Carlos Delgado Trade between Detroit and Texas : Texas gets : LF Ray Lankford Detroit gets : 1B Carlos Delgado Trade between Texas and Detroit : Detroit gets : LF Ray Lankford Texas gets : 1B Carlos Delgado So if you've read this, you probably see my concern. If it wasn't so funny, I'd probably be more peeved than I am. At the deadline, Carlos Delgado got swapped 9 times, including three times on one day between the same 2 teams (for Ken Griffey, Jr.), and 4 times on the last day between the same two teams, with these teams swapping Ray Lankford for Delgado each time (and for good measure one time the day before, for a total of 5 Ray Lankford for Carlos Delgado trades in two days between the same two teams.) Other interesting notes: besides the three Griffey for Delgado trades, Griffey seems to have lost value to BOTH teams after the initial trade, as a throw-in prospect was necessary to complete the last to Griffey-for-Delgado swaps (his hammy acted up on his way to Philly?). It seems that the computer creates a "hole" on its team, and then fills the "hole" with the same thing it took away to create the hole in the first place (a similar player, if not the same one). Besides the obvious concerns, another concern is that the trading frequency was set to Very Low and the league only has 16 teams. July 29th alone had more trades (12) than I would have liked to see for the entire season, much less the deadline. On the bright side, I love the fact that the teams that are out of it will shop their players at the deadline, and the trades made (looking at team needs and player ratings) are generally sound. I also like the "three-team swap" of a player acquired being immediately dealt to another team (albeit usually to fill the hole created by the initial trade.) I would like to see the number of trades drastically reduced, and of course not involve the same player beween two teams 4 or 5 times. [ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: mtw ]</p> __________________ Over-Zealous Apologist

03-07-2002, 10:14 AM	#3
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,023	If there is too much trading for you then lower the trade frequency in the league setup, some folks like to see alot of player movement. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

03-07-2002, 10:21 AM	#5
Dwolfson20 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Not St. Louis Posts: 2,872	[quote] If there is too much trading for you then lower the trade frequency in the league setup, some folks like to see alot of player movement. <hr></blockquote> Actually, if you would read his entire posting, he stated that his trading frequency was set to Very Low. __________________

03-07-2002, 11:50 AM	#7
mtw All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 653	[quote]Originally posted by Broth32: <strong>mtw.. this is post-patch?</strong><hr></blockquote> Yup. __________________ Over-Zealous Apologist

03-07-2002, 11:56 AM	#8
mtw All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 653	[quote]Originally posted by Dokken: <strong>While I agree thats a little TOO much trading....I like to see the AI making moves. Would you rather it not move at all? </strong><hr></blockquote> Hardly. I like to see player trades, but I don't want two or three trades per team during a season; I like a little stability with my league, and I lowered the trading frequency to Very Low to accomplish that. It didn't work in this instance, but maybe it will in future seasons. In any event, there should never be occasion for a player to be traded back and forth bewteen the same two teams 4 times in one day and 5 times in two days. __________________ Over-Zealous Apologist

03-07-2002, 09:42 AM	#2
Broth32 Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: C-Town Posts: 385	mtw.. this is post-patch?

03-07-2002, 10:20 AM	#4
Maple Leafs Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 234	I've never seen anything this extreme, but I'm in 2009 now and I notice that several players have been traded several times in the same season (usually once in the off-season, and once at the deadline). I've also had teams trade (or offer to trade) big-ticket free agents that they'd just signed. It seems that an easy fix for this would be an FOF-style limitation where the CPU refuses to trade someone who was just acquired.

03-07-2002, 10:45 AM	#6
Dokken Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 110	While I agree thats a little TOO much trading....I like to see the AI making moves. Would you rather it not move at all? What I dont understand,and this has happened with OOTP3's pinch hitting AI,is that Markus says he has a patch that will fix it...and it never does. Now I dont want to sound like Im jumping on Markus,God knows he is busy enough as it is,but I really dont like to be told somethings fixed when it is obviously NOT fixed. Same thing with the Pinch Hitting AI. Oh well...Im through complaining....for now

03-07-2002, 11:56 AM	#9
troy Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 22	ive seen players traded on the same day to same teams.. but nothing to that extreme extent. My trades are set on Low and there are way too many trades as well. Id hate to see what Very High would do. Maybe its the OOTP2 bug all over again where the Very Quick Hook actually meant Very Slow... so if you set trading frequency to Very High there would be no trades? i havent tried it out. __________________ CBL NH CDBL Florida GMC Beijing EBL Redsox

03-07-2002, 01:34 PM	#10
mtw All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 653	I just simmed another three "test" seasons. After a couple of seasons with very few trades the last season just had another flurry of same player for same player swaps between two teams. Ken Griffey, Jr. was traded for Jose Ortiz 14 times at the deadline. Also, Vlad Guerrero was traded by the Cubs and then traded back to the Cubs for a different player on the same day. __________________ Over-Zealous Apologist