Historical Simulations

jm47048 · 01-06-2005, 01:26 PM

I had this idea not long ago to simulate the entire 100 years or so of World Series era baseball. I wanted to see if the record books would be similar to real life. I came across a problem however. It did not seem like the game created the new teams that were added during the expansion era of baseball and only uploaded rookies of the teams from the original 1903 league. Also the team names did not change as well, i.e. New York Highlanders to New York Yankees at the appropriate year. Am I doing something wrong? Has anyone else done this and do you have any suggestions?

Skywalker76 · 01-06-2005, 03:22 PM

You have to do those "changes" manualy with the editor. So you have to create those expansion teams and you have to change the team names. Especially creating expansion teams is a lot of work, which is the reason I haven't done this "recreation" of MLB history.

Vezna31 · 01-06-2005, 03:30 PM

I am doing a historical replay starting in 1901. I am currently in 1924. One of the things I have noticed is the lack of 30-game winners. Also, many pitchers who had long careers and many wins wound up as relievers in the game i.e. Christy Mathewson. Most batting records are close. Cobb holds the average at .417 and Ruth hit 64 HR's in 1923. A guy hit 72 doubles one year and another hit 30 triples. Cobb stole 114 bases one season. Nap Lajoie won 8 MVP awards or something like that. I didn't change any team names and I haven't decided yet what to do about expansion. I know if I assign players to original teams, the players whose team doesn't exist because of expansion will be free agents. I may make it a draft when I get to that point, which is still a ways off. I'm pretty involved to where I adjust league totals for HRs and batting average. At some point, I plan to take over the worst team and turn on the financials to see what I can do. Also, there are no rookies in 1918 (I guess due to the war), so the game created a set of computer generated players.

jm47048 · 01-06-2005, 03:53 PM

I didn't know that there were no rookies in the 1918 season but that makes sense. I got as far as 1921 and then decided to look at the records and realized that things were not what I had hoped for. Maybe with the new OOTP7 this all might be possible with little tweaking. I was hoping the game would have been smart to see that I am in x year and so these are my teams, and these are my players, and this is my era. You know what I mean? Perhaps the dev guys hadn't thought of doing a whole historical sim. It may not have been designed that way.

The game is great, and those first few seasons were pretty accurate, and all but one WS champion was correct to real life in my sim. (1904 there was no WS but the season played through) and the 1908 season, it was the pirates, not the cubs who made it all the way for some reason. Don't know why. But aside from that, the results are pretty historical.

Vezna31 · 01-06-2005, 04:00 PM

In my sim, Boston released Babe Ruth in 1914 and he was picked up by the Tigers. The Tigers won 3 straight championships and from 1918 through 1923, every series has been Tigers-Cubs. The Cubbies won 5 in a row. The Tigers won the last matchup though. It's pretty interesting to watch the pennant races every year, although there really hasn't been any in the last few years. The Tigers and Cubs have been so far ahead of everyone.

jm47048 · 01-06-2005, 04:03 PM

That will change when you leave the dead ball era and move to the golden age ear or whatever it is called. The ball becomes more liveler and pitching is less importnat, just like in real baseball. Pitching is important of course, but you know what I mean.

bulldog55 · 01-06-2005, 04:07 PM

I've taken my own route to historical recreation. Expansion is difficult so I didn't tackle it until just this past season, having run the league for over two years realtime. In 1953 I merged the Majors with the PCL, creating every major PCL player thanks to some stat printouts from DMB. I finally wanted to expand so I got friends to play the roles of other GM's in setting lists and drafting. It worked very well. Impartial expansion is next to impossible without help.

Vezna31 · 01-06-2005, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jm47048

That will change when you leave the dead ball era and move to the golden age ear or whatever it is called. The ball becomes more liveler and pitching is less importnat, just like in real baseball. Pitching is important of course, but you know what I mean.

The ball became livelier in 1921 when Ruth hit 59. It will get really interesting because Gehrig just entered the game in 1924 and Jimmie Foxx comes in '25.

jm47048 · 01-06-2005, 04:13 PM

Right, so you see that with teams who had great players come up over the years, the division races will spread back out again.

And that expansion thing seems difficult. Can I make that a feature request for OOTP7 to do historical expansion on the fly? Marcus? What do you think?

RJolley · 01-06-2005, 06:23 PM

I didn't think expansion was hard to do when following the howto in the FAQ section of the site. I started a league in 1901 and ran it until 20011. I gathered sime Negro League player stats and added them into Ankit's db, so it's kind of a "What if some of the NL stars had played in the MLB" league. If you want to see the Catobase from the league, check the link at the bottom.

If I decide to run another one, I think I'll let players draft to their original team instead of a fantasy draft. May make some other Lahman changes as well.

84Hammy · 01-06-2005, 08:19 PM

After starting probably 50 leagues in OOTP5, I vowed with OOTP6 I wouldn't fall into the same routine. And so far I haven't. I have started and simmed one league only, recreating MLB using fictional players. I started at 1900 and it is now 1970. I simmed the first 20 years, then took over the worst team, and played until I won the series--usually 3-7 years. Then I would simmed 5 more years, take over the worst team again, (pretty standard practise I think) and so on until 1961 and expansion. I monitored that year closely doing a mock expansion draft by allowing only the two expansion teams to participate in free agency for the first 15 days. It went well, so in 1962, I repeated the process, except this time I took over Houston, and have been playing them with the goal of not just winning the series, but also creating hall of famers with at least a couple of the players. It has been fun. But really, who is Teddy Corr? What difference does it make that every season I try to find a better rightfielder and every season he ends up my everyday rightfielder, and now, seven years later he has 1200 hits and is only 27.
Anywho, this thread has got my urges running again, so last night I started another league. A historical league using real players and starting in 1901. Yeah, I know not very original, but this time I am committed, I promise. So I set the league up, fixed up the engine numbers, and simmed the first year.
I guess my question is, are there any bits of advice I need, like, if I change the names of the teams to reflect history will it screw up the database when I import rookies? I am going to have teams draft the rookies, just for funsies, so the real players will be there, but Babe might never have been a Red Sox. I think it will be fun to compare the statistical results with my fictional league. Any advice would be helpful.

jm47048 · 01-06-2005, 08:34 PM

That's kinda what I wanted to do. I mean, who knows if Ruth would ever even go to the Yankees. I am afraid I have no advice for you. I love my fictional league. Its great. But I really like recreating stats. That is why I play Replay Baseball and APBA Baseball often with my nephews and with friends. I am also joining a Replay Fictional league but it uses real players.

You folks should check that out. Its a great past time. You can do a game in 10-25 minutes, 30 if you've never played before.

84Hammy · 01-06-2005, 08:42 PM

Just simmed 1902 and have a few more specific questions: As time goes on, will the players automatically adjust when they are imported, such as pitcher stuff rating and defensive ratings? And there seems like an awful lot of triples, leader had 40 I think...

RJolley · 01-06-2005, 09:39 PM

I believe that as long as the abreviations match, the players will be on their correct team. I'm not 100% sure though, as all of my historical leagues have been draft leagues where the players go into the pool and are drafted. That is the way I'm going to run my next OOTP league, whenever I make the time.

Once players are imported, they are at the whim of the OOTP development and aging routines. They may develop, they may not...who knows?

Vezna31 · 01-06-2005, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 84Hammy

Just simmed 1902 and have a few more specific questions: As time goes on, will the players automatically adjust when they are imported, such as pitcher stuff rating and defensive ratings? And there seems like an awful lot of triples, leader had 40 I think...

Are you adjusting league totals? You will get skewed stats if you don't. I adjust them every year and if they are off too much, I restore to my previous year back up and do the year over again. I've done 23 years so far and my highest triples was 30.

Tiger Fan · 01-07-2005, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jm47048

I had this idea not long ago to simulate the entire 100 years or so of World Series era baseball. I wanted to see if the record books would be similar to real life. I came across a problem however. It did not seem like the game created the new teams that were added during the expansion era of baseball and only uploaded rookies of the teams from the original 1903 league. Also the team names did not change as well, i.e. New York Highlanders to New York Yankees at the appropriate year. Am I doing something wrong? Has anyone else done this and do you have any suggestions?

This thread might be of help for historical simming.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ad.php?t=62428

Jonzard · 01-07-2005, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skywalker76

You have to do those "changes" manualy with the editor. So you have to create those expansion teams and you have to change the team names. Especially creating expansion teams is a lot of work, which is the reason I haven't done this "recreation" of MLB history.

Someone needs to do a comprehensive rundown of all the expansion teams, name changes, and relocations since 1900. Somewhere that would be easy to read and apply to historical sims.

randomlefty10 · 01-07-2005, 03:01 AM

There is such a rundown. I don't have the link, but many people in the OOTP Dynasty forum do.

Qrusher14242 · 01-07-2005, 03:05 AM

BruceM created a Chronology of Franchise Moves, Expansion, etc. The website it was on is offline, but i have it in pdf files at http://qrusher142.freeserverhost.com/bbchrono.htm

Just right clock on the link us 'Save Link As'

woodyjay · 01-07-2005, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qrusher14242

BruceM created a Chronology of Franchise Moves, Expansion, etc. The website it was on is offline, but i have it in pdf files at http://qrusher142.freeserverhost.com/bbchrono.htm

Just right clock on the link us 'Save Link As'

It doesnt work

01-06-2005, 01:26 PM	#1
jm47048 All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,247	Historical Simulations I had this idea not long ago to simulate the entire 100 years or so of World Series era baseball. I wanted to see if the record books would be similar to real life. I came across a problem however. It did not seem like the game created the new teams that were added during the expansion era of baseball and only uploaded rookies of the teams from the original 1903 league. Also the team names did not change as well, i.e. New York Highlanders to New York Yankees at the appropriate year. Am I doing something wrong? Has anyone else done this and do you have any suggestions?

01-06-2005, 03:30 PM	#3
Vezna31 All Star Starter Join Date: May 2004 Location: Wherever My VPN says Posts: 1,990	I am doing a historical replay starting in 1901. I am currently in 1924. One of the things I have noticed is the lack of 30-game winners. Also, many pitchers who had long careers and many wins wound up as relievers in the game i.e. Christy Mathewson. Most batting records are close. Cobb holds the average at .417 and Ruth hit 64 HR's in 1923. A guy hit 72 doubles one year and another hit 30 triples. Cobb stole 114 bases one season. Nap Lajoie won 8 MVP awards or something like that. I didn't change any team names and I haven't decided yet what to do about expansion. I know if I assign players to original teams, the players whose team doesn't exist because of expansion will be free agents. I may make it a draft when I get to that point, which is still a ways off. I'm pretty involved to where I adjust league totals for HRs and batting average. At some point, I plan to take over the worst team and turn on the financials to see what I can do. Also, there are no rookies in 1918 (I guess due to the war), so the game created a set of computer generated players. Last edited by Vezna31; 01-06-2005 at 03:32 PM.

01-06-2005, 04:07 PM	#7
bulldog55 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: California's Canada Warnings: 17 Posts: 2,482	I've taken my own route to historical recreation. Expansion is difficult so I didn't tackle it until just this past season, having run the league for over two years realtime. In 1953 I merged the Majors with the PCL, creating every major PCL player thanks to some stat printouts from DMB. I finally wanted to expand so I got friends to play the roles of other GM's in setting lists and drafting. It worked very well. Impartial expansion is next to impossible without help. __________________ Commissioner, Trans-Continental Base Ball Association Owner/GM, Los Angeles Electrics (TCBA), Beaverton Rangers (OTBL), Portland Mavericks (Union League), and Los Angeles Superbas (Century League) Being smart, don't always make you popular.

01-06-2005, 03:22 PM	#2
Skywalker76 All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Miami Posts: 833	You have to do those "changes" manualy with the editor. So you have to create those expansion teams and you have to change the team names. Especially creating expansion teams is a lot of work, which is the reason I haven't done this "recreation" of MLB history.

01-06-2005, 03:53 PM	#4
jm47048 All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,247	I didn't know that there were no rookies in the 1918 season but that makes sense. I got as far as 1921 and then decided to look at the records and realized that things were not what I had hoped for. Maybe with the new OOTP7 this all might be possible with little tweaking. I was hoping the game would have been smart to see that I am in x year and so these are my teams, and these are my players, and this is my era. You know what I mean? Perhaps the dev guys hadn't thought of doing a whole historical sim. It may not have been designed that way. The game is great, and those first few seasons were pretty accurate, and all but one WS champion was correct to real life in my sim. (1904 there was no WS but the season played through) and the 1908 season, it was the pirates, not the cubs who made it all the way for some reason. Don't know why. But aside from that, the results are pretty historical.

01-06-2005, 04:00 PM	#5
Vezna31 All Star Starter Join Date: May 2004 Location: Wherever My VPN says Posts: 1,990	In my sim, Boston released Babe Ruth in 1914 and he was picked up by the Tigers. The Tigers won 3 straight championships and from 1918 through 1923, every series has been Tigers-Cubs. The Cubbies won 5 in a row. The Tigers won the last matchup though. It's pretty interesting to watch the pennant races every year, although there really hasn't been any in the last few years. The Tigers and Cubs have been so far ahead of everyone.

01-06-2005, 04:03 PM	#6
jm47048 All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,247	That will change when you leave the dead ball era and move to the golden age ear or whatever it is called. The ball becomes more liveler and pitching is less importnat, just like in real baseball. Pitching is important of course, but you know what I mean.

01-06-2005, 04:13 PM	#9
jm47048 All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,247	Right, so you see that with teams who had great players come up over the years, the division races will spread back out again. And that expansion thing seems difficult. Can I make that a feature request for OOTP7 to do historical expansion on the fly? Marcus? What do you think?

01-06-2005, 06:23 PM	#10
RJolley Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 334	I didn't think expansion was hard to do when following the howto in the FAQ section of the site. I started a league in 1901 and ran it until 20011. I gathered sime Negro League player stats and added them into Ankit's db, so it's kind of a "What if some of the NL stars had played in the MLB" league. If you want to see the Catobase from the league, check the link at the bottom. If I decide to run another one, I think I'll let players draft to their original team instead of a fantasy draft. May make some other Lahman changes as well.

01-06-2005, 08:19 PM	#11
84Hammy All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Stinky Windsor Posts: 919	After starting probably 50 leagues in OOTP5, I vowed with OOTP6 I wouldn't fall into the same routine. And so far I haven't. I have started and simmed one league only, recreating MLB using fictional players. I started at 1900 and it is now 1970. I simmed the first 20 years, then took over the worst team, and played until I won the series--usually 3-7 years. Then I would simmed 5 more years, take over the worst team again, (pretty standard practise I think) and so on until 1961 and expansion. I monitored that year closely doing a mock expansion draft by allowing only the two expansion teams to participate in free agency for the first 15 days. It went well, so in 1962, I repeated the process, except this time I took over Houston, and have been playing them with the goal of not just winning the series, but also creating hall of famers with at least a couple of the players. It has been fun. But really, who is Teddy Corr? What difference does it make that every season I try to find a better rightfielder and every season he ends up my everyday rightfielder, and now, seven years later he has 1200 hits and is only 27. Anywho, this thread has got my urges running again, so last night I started another league. A historical league using real players and starting in 1901. Yeah, I know not very original, but this time I am committed, I promise. So I set the league up, fixed up the engine numbers, and simmed the first year. I guess my question is, are there any bits of advice I need, like, if I change the names of the teams to reflect history will it screw up the database when I import rookies? I am going to have teams draft the rookies, just for funsies, so the real players will be there, but Babe might never have been a Red Sox. I think it will be fun to compare the statistical results with my fictional league. Any advice would be helpful.

01-06-2005, 08:34 PM	#12
jm47048 All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,247	That's kinda what I wanted to do. I mean, who knows if Ruth would ever even go to the Yankees. I am afraid I have no advice for you. I love my fictional league. Its great. But I really like recreating stats. That is why I play Replay Baseball and APBA Baseball often with my nephews and with friends. I am also joining a Replay Fictional league but it uses real players. You folks should check that out. Its a great past time. You can do a game in 10-25 minutes, 30 if you've never played before.

01-06-2005, 08:42 PM	#13
84Hammy All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Stinky Windsor Posts: 919	Just simmed 1902 and have a few more specific questions: As time goes on, will the players automatically adjust when they are imported, such as pitcher stuff rating and defensive ratings? And there seems like an awful lot of triples, leader had 40 I think...

01-06-2005, 09:39 PM	#14
RJolley Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 334	I believe that as long as the abreviations match, the players will be on their correct team. I'm not 100% sure though, as all of my historical leagues have been draft leagues where the players go into the pool and are drafted. That is the way I'm going to run my next OOTP league, whenever I make the time. Once players are imported, they are at the whim of the OOTP development and aging routines. They may develop, they may not...who knows?

01-07-2005, 03:01 AM	#18
randomlefty10 All Star Starter Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 1,438	There is such a rundown. I don't have the link, but many people in the OOTP Dynasty forum do.

01-07-2005, 03:05 AM	#19
Qrusher14242 All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: CA Posts: 1,253	BruceM created a Chronology of Franchise Moves, Expansion, etc. The website it was on is offline, but i have it in pdf files at http://qrusher142.freeserverhost.com/bbchrono.htm Just right clock on the link us 'Save Link As'