Weight? Height? Reach?

kenyan_cheena · 10-16-2004, 08:31 PM

I've noticed that the game doesn't give any details of a fighters height, weight or reach. Are these factors accounted for in some other way? I was thinking that with the career stages, especially for Heavyweights, their weight would increase as they get further into their career. Any thoughts on this?

Odrog · 10-16-2004, 10:05 PM

Just guesses: I find it hard to believe that the TB team would ignor such a basic part of the sport as reach advantages. Probably it's a small part of what makes up Control Factor. Guys with more reach might have an easier time controlling the match, by keeping the other guy out of punching range. As for height and weight, it's important to note that the ratings (as I understand them) are based on performance rather than raw physical attributes. There were probably a couple fighters around who could bench more than George Foreman in his prime, but NOBODY could knock you on your a@@ with one punch like him, hence his superhuman Hitting Power. So height and weight probably aren't considered except as they affect in-ring performance (ring movement, Hitting Power, Endurance etc.) This, along with umpty-million hours of research and coding, is what makes the simulator so realistic.

As always, there's an outstanding chance I could be absolutely wrong about all of this.

For What it's Worth
The Fat Man

PS: Yo Andreas, how bout a "Tale of the Tape" for TBII? Even if it's purely cosmetic, just adds to the "fight night" ambience.

erickdamac · 10-17-2004, 07:02 PM

This is a must, and it must be addressed in tcb II or roleplaying I cant see myself buying another version of there game without the height reach and weight, It would be nice to see a person weight in and see there weight beause it could effect stamina and everything.

Austin · 10-17-2004, 07:17 PM

When discussing reach it must be measured in the correct way. HBO's method of measuring from armpit to hand makes no sense. The width of the back is a factor as you jab sideways, not square to your opponent. The most realistic measurement should be from knuckle of one hand to the knucle of the other hand. This factors in the width of the back. It's important to remember that reach is a disadvantage on the inside, as the shorter reach is more effective.

Austin

Mudster · 10-17-2004, 08:07 PM

A "Tale of the Tape" would be very cool and an excellent cosmetic addition to the game (may be more appropriate for the role play version), but to try to measure this in to how it affects the fights is asking a little too much. This is why there are weight divisions and when a smaller weight class fights a larger one, you see the difference. The same goes with the stage of a fighters career...when a fighter is put into a later stage, you see the difference in his numbers. This could be seen as "age conditioning" if you so desire. But once again, having a Tale of the Tape for even just fight cards would be a really neat addition.

meade95 · 10-17-2004, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erickdamac

This is a must, and it must be addressed in tcb II or roleplaying I cant see myself buying another version of there game without the height reach and weight, It would be nice to see a person weight in and see there weight beause it could effect stamina and everything.

Height and reach are all addressed (indirectly) with regard to CF and punches landed, counter punches -
<P>
CF obviously being the bigger factor -
<P>
However, I agree that perhaps they should input a few more varibles such as how a figther fights Vs a taller opponent or a short opponent - Or if a fighter doesn't fight as well Vs a left-hander, etc -

wildhawke11 · 10-17-2004, 08:26 PM

There so many things that can give another fighter the advantage during a fight. The problem is how much do you try to put in that would work and interact with each other to give a good result and work together. Its better to have 10 that work and do interact well together to give a realistic simulation then 15 that don't.

I have played many football games in the past where a team has ratings in say 10 areas but in truth it looks good on paper but only 6 have any real bearing on the result.

Cap · 10-17-2004, 11:41 PM

A Tale of the Tape page would be cool, but who is going to input all the necessary data? Some of the numbers are just not available for every fighter.

Cap

P.S. I prefer the old reach measurement across the back.

erickdamac · 10-18-2004, 02:48 AM

Height and reach is huge simple it makes fighters like Lennox lewis standout because without a HEight reach advantage, he would be ****, I think this must be addressed in some way shape or form.

Arm pit to fist is the correct way to do it, because when you throw a jab you dont turn your back to your opponet must jabs are straight to the face, not of hte back.

meade95 · 10-18-2004, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erickdamac

Height and reach is huge simple it makes fighters like Lennox lewis standout because without a HEight reach advantage, he would be ****, I think this must be addressed in some way shape or form.

Arm pit to fist is the correct way to do it, because when you throw a jab you dont turn your back to your opponet must jabs are straight to the face, not of hte back.

Erickdamac - The idea of HEIGHT and REACH is included within the game - That is where CF comes in (big time). - That is exactly what CF is there for - to indirectly focus on what causes a fighter to control a fight - Be it Vs a boxer or a slugger -
<P>
Lennox CF of a 10 or 11 (depending on what you believe) is in large part due to his size and reach -

erickdamac · 10-19-2004, 06:04 PM

Blah

Mudster · 10-19-2004, 10:50 PM

eric...ideally, it would be nice to be able to factor in every detail into a fighter, but asking to have how every fighter does against a larger or smaller fighter compared to them being a larger or smaller fighter is pretty close to impossible. There are a few fighters that could be named in this equation, but, realistically, no one will go through every fighters career to see how they did in certain size matchups. Here's an example....Gerry Cooney did great against three small sized heavys and bad against three larger. Now, did he do good or bad because of his opponents talent or lack there of, or did his opponents do good or bad because of his large size? Now we would have to study those opponents on how they did against larger opponents and blah, blah, blah......There are just too many variables when trying to judge fighters on how they do against certain size opponents and we should just be satisfied in knowing that Gerry Cooney will beat the hell out of 1 and 2 rated fighters while turning into the Great White Chump against greater opponents as he did in real life.

erickdamac · 10-20-2004, 11:25 PM

Sorry for my last post, I was really rushing I might have done better not to write the damn thing lol.

Again im not saying have every fighter rating checked to a certain number to see how they perform against a tall fighter or a small fighter, What I am saying if You have a guy who is is rated a 7 and is 6'4 and a MW with a great jab and cf is like a 10 vs sluggers, and then you have a fighter who is 5'8 who is a Mw who is a 8 or 9 vs a boxer but his power is a 11 and he has alot of other good tools but he gives up the Height/Reach to the 6'4, The 6'4 boxer can box every round controlling with his great jab and make the fight more real and interesting because in boxing, styles makes fights, And one of the most important things to determine a person style is his Height/reach, this is somethign that must be addressed by The roleplay version since that looks to be out in late next year.

dlirag · 10-21-2004, 10:14 PM

If the 6'4" guy has good cornermen and likes to box from outside, I think you'd be right.

10-16-2004, 08:31 PM	#1
kenyan_cheena Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia Posts: 9,037	Weight? Height? Reach? I've noticed that the game doesn't give any details of a fighters height, weight or reach. Are these factors accounted for in some other way? I was thinking that with the career stages, especially for Heavyweights, their weight would increase as they get further into their career. Any thoughts on this?

10-17-2004, 11:41 PM	#8
Cap Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Large Province in God's Country Posts: 7,969	A Tale of the Tape page would be cool, but who is going to input all the necessary data? Some of the numbers are just not available for every fighter. Cap P.S. I prefer the old reach measurement across the back. __________________ "...There were Giants in Those Days.." Last edited by Cap; 10-18-2004 at 10:46 PM.

10-19-2004, 06:04 PM	#11
erickdamac All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,592	Blah Last edited by erickdamac; 10-20-2004 at 11:26 PM.

10-16-2004, 10:05 PM	#2
Odrog Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 20	Just guesses: I find it hard to believe that the TB team would ignor such a basic part of the sport as reach advantages. Probably it's a small part of what makes up Control Factor. Guys with more reach might have an easier time controlling the match, by keeping the other guy out of punching range. As for height and weight, it's important to note that the ratings (as I understand them) are based on performance rather than raw physical attributes. There were probably a couple fighters around who could bench more than George Foreman in his prime, but NOBODY could knock you on your a@@ with one punch like him, hence his superhuman Hitting Power. So height and weight probably aren't considered except as they affect in-ring performance (ring movement, Hitting Power, Endurance etc.) This, along with umpty-million hours of research and coding, is what makes the simulator so realistic. As always, there's an outstanding chance I could be absolutely wrong about all of this. For What it's Worth The Fat Man PS: Yo Andreas, how bout a "Tale of the Tape" for TBII? Even if it's purely cosmetic, just adds to the "fight night" ambience.

10-17-2004, 07:02 PM	#3
erickdamac All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,592	This is a must, and it must be addressed in tcb II or roleplaying I cant see myself buying another version of there game without the height reach and weight, It would be nice to see a person weight in and see there weight beause it could effect stamina and everything.

10-17-2004, 07:17 PM	#4
Austin Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 269	When discussing reach it must be measured in the correct way. HBO's method of measuring from armpit to hand makes no sense. The width of the back is a factor as you jab sideways, not square to your opponent. The most realistic measurement should be from knuckle of one hand to the knucle of the other hand. This factors in the width of the back. It's important to remember that reach is a disadvantage on the inside, as the shorter reach is more effective. Austin

10-17-2004, 08:07 PM	#5
Mudster Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 315	A "Tale of the Tape" would be very cool and an excellent cosmetic addition to the game (may be more appropriate for the role play version), but to try to measure this in to how it affects the fights is asking a little too much. This is why there are weight divisions and when a smaller weight class fights a larger one, you see the difference. The same goes with the stage of a fighters career...when a fighter is put into a later stage, you see the difference in his numbers. This could be seen as "age conditioning" if you so desire. But once again, having a Tale of the Tape for even just fight cards would be a really neat addition.

10-17-2004, 08:26 PM	#7
wildhawke11 All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: united kingdom Posts: 1,952	There so many things that can give another fighter the advantage during a fight. The problem is how much do you try to put in that would work and interact with each other to give a good result and work together. Its better to have 10 that work and do interact well together to give a realistic simulation then 15 that don't. I have played many football games in the past where a team has ratings in say 10 areas but in truth it looks good on paper but only 6 have any real bearing on the result.

10-18-2004, 02:48 AM	#9
erickdamac All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,592	Height and reach is huge simple it makes fighters like Lennox lewis standout because without a HEight reach advantage, he would be ****, I think this must be addressed in some way shape or form. Arm pit to fist is the correct way to do it, because when you throw a jab you dont turn your back to your opponet must jabs are straight to the face, not of hte back.

10-19-2004, 10:50 PM	#12
Mudster Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 315	eric...ideally, it would be nice to be able to factor in every detail into a fighter, but asking to have how every fighter does against a larger or smaller fighter compared to them being a larger or smaller fighter is pretty close to impossible. There are a few fighters that could be named in this equation, but, realistically, no one will go through every fighters career to see how they did in certain size matchups. Here's an example....Gerry Cooney did great against three small sized heavys and bad against three larger. Now, did he do good or bad because of his opponents talent or lack there of, or did his opponents do good or bad because of his large size? Now we would have to study those opponents on how they did against larger opponents and blah, blah, blah......There are just too many variables when trying to judge fighters on how they do against certain size opponents and we should just be satisfied in knowing that Gerry Cooney will beat the hell out of 1 and 2 rated fighters while turning into the Great White Chump against greater opponents as he did in real life.

10-20-2004, 11:25 PM	#13
erickdamac All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,592	Sorry for my last post, I was really rushing I might have done better not to write the damn thing lol. Again im not saying have every fighter rating checked to a certain number to see how they perform against a tall fighter or a small fighter, What I am saying if You have a guy who is is rated a 7 and is 6'4 and a MW with a great jab and cf is like a 10 vs sluggers, and then you have a fighter who is 5'8 who is a Mw who is a 8 or 9 vs a boxer but his power is a 11 and he has alot of other good tools but he gives up the Height/Reach to the 6'4, The 6'4 boxer can box every round controlling with his great jab and make the fight more real and interesting because in boxing, styles makes fights, And one of the most important things to determine a person style is his Height/reach, this is somethign that must be addressed by The roleplay version since that looks to be out in late next year.

10-21-2004, 10:14 PM	#14
dlirag Bat Boy Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 13	If the 6'4" guy has good cornermen and likes to box from outside, I think you'd be right.