When using 'bunt for hit'...

pjygabon · 03-20-2002, 03:59 AM

If there are runners on base and I succeed to advance them with 'bunt for hit', I think I should get a SH(Sac Hit) rather than AB...

Maybe I don't know the rules exactly...

Giants44 · 03-20-2002, 04:03 AM

I haven’t really noticed one way or another in the game.

But in “real life” a bunt that advances a runner will always be scored a sacrifice, since the official scorer does not determine the intentions of the batter, simply the execution.

Steve Kuffrey · 03-20-2002, 04:03 AM

No, although to a point this is a judgement call by the "official scorer". It should not be a sac in those cases.

Delgadodawg · 03-20-2002, 04:24 AM

It would definetly be scored a SAC IRL.

Khaos · 03-20-2002, 04:48 AM

It should be a SAC. I can't understand how a scorer would distinguish he was trying not to sac but get on base unless 1B was open? The game should score it as a SAC when a man on first reaches second and as an AB when there is no man on first. It does not do this currently.

Redleg · 03-20-2002, 04:52 AM

OOTP1 is exactly right. The following is a verbatim excerpt from the official baseball rules, section 10.09:

(d) Do not score a sacrifice bunt when, in the judgment of the scorer, the batter is bunting primarily for a base hit and not for the purpose of advancing a runner or runners. Charge the batter with a time at bat. NOTE: In applying the above rule, always give the batter the benefit of the doubt.

Scott Vibert · 03-20-2002, 04:53 AM

Yes in real life it would be (mistakenly) scored a SAC because the scorer wouldn't know the batter was trying to get a hit.

But since this isn't real life the scorer does know for sure the batter was trying to get a hit so the batter isn't awarded the sacrifice.

In this case (and this is one of the few) a computer game official scorer will actually do a better job than a human official scorer.

Steve Kuffrey · 03-20-2002, 04:55 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Redleg:
<strong>OOTP1 is exactly right. The following is a verbatim excerpt from the official baseball rules, section 10.09:

(d) Do not score a sacrifice bunt when, in the judgment of the scorer, the batter is bunting primarily for a base hit and not for the purpose of advancing a runner or runners. Charge the batter with a time at bat. NOTE: In applying the above rule, always give the batter the benefit of the doubt.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I have not had time to look it up but thought that from the MANY games I'd watched and listened to that this is indeed the case. Thanks for the research.

Yossarian · 03-20-2002, 07:25 AM

[quote]Originally posted by ScottVib:
<strong>Yes in real life it would be (mistakenly) scored a SAC because the scorer wouldn't know the batter was trying to get a hit.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It's not that hard to tell. In a pure sac situation the batter will square fairly early. Drag bunt/bunt for hit the batter waits till the last second and bunts while leaning towards first, to get out of the box faster.

Kohlman · 03-20-2002, 09:37 AM

I believe this topic came up because in my experiences with the game, using the bunt for a hit choice has been much more successful than just the bunt choice.

When I say successful I mean in just moving the runner over to 2nd, not necessarily getting a bunt single. It seems when I am trying to sacrifice with the pitcher using the bunt choice, the attempts are always fouled off. My "sacrifice" usually works when I use bunt for a hit.

bigphesta · 03-20-2002, 05:00 PM

According to my old highschool baseball coach, You NEVER bunt for the out, you ALWAYS try to get on. Have you EVER seen a batter just stand there? They are ALWAYS trying to get on. If the runner doesn't go, but the player bunts, then that's when the rule for "trying to get a hit" occurs. If the runner advances, it's usually ruled a SH.

03-20-2002, 03:59 AM	#1
pjygabon Bat Boy Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4	When using 'bunt for hit'... If there are runners on base and I succeed to advance them with 'bunt for hit', I think I should get a SH(Sac Hit) rather than AB... Maybe I don't know the rules exactly...

03-20-2002, 04:03 AM	#2
Giants44 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 2,408	I haven’t really noticed one way or another in the game. But in “real life” a bunt that advances a runner will always be scored a sacrifice, since the official scorer does not determine the intentions of the batter, simply the execution. __________________ "In a text sim - Immersion is everything" -Me "Judge a man not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character" -Martin Luther King "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." -Einstein "The man who views the world at 50 the same as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life." -Muhammad Ali "Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything." -Toby Harrah

03-20-2002, 04:03 AM	#3
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,023	No, although to a point this is a judgement call by the "official scorer". It should not be a sac in those cases. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

03-20-2002, 04:48 AM	#5
Khaos Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Canfield, OH Posts: 473	It should be a SAC. I can't understand how a scorer would distinguish he was trying not to sac but get on base unless 1B was open? The game should score it as a SAC when a man on first reaches second and as an AB when there is no man on first. It does not do this currently. __________________ squish

03-20-2002, 04:55 AM	#8
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,023	[quote]Originally posted by Redleg: <strong>OOTP1 is exactly right. The following is a verbatim excerpt from the official baseball rules, section 10.09: (d) Do not score a sacrifice bunt when, in the judgment of the scorer, the batter is bunting primarily for a base hit and not for the purpose of advancing a runner or runners. Charge the batter with a time at bat. NOTE: In applying the above rule, always give the batter the benefit of the doubt.</strong><hr></blockquote> I have not had time to look it up but thought that from the MANY games I'd watched and listened to that this is indeed the case. Thanks for the research. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

03-20-2002, 04:24 AM	#4
Delgadodawg All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Vancouver Posts: 800	It would definetly be scored a SAC IRL.

03-20-2002, 04:52 AM	#6
Redleg Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 48	OOTP1 is exactly right. The following is a verbatim excerpt from the official baseball rules, section 10.09: (d) Do not score a sacrifice bunt when, in the judgment of the scorer, the batter is bunting primarily for a base hit and not for the purpose of advancing a runner or runners. Charge the batter with a time at bat. NOTE: In applying the above rule, always give the batter the benefit of the doubt.

03-20-2002, 04:53 AM	#7
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,202	Yes in real life it would be (mistakenly) scored a SAC because the scorer wouldn't know the batter was trying to get a hit. But since this isn't real life the scorer does know for sure the batter was trying to get a hit so the batter isn't awarded the sacrifice. In this case (and this is one of the few) a computer game official scorer will actually do a better job than a human official scorer.

03-20-2002, 07:25 AM	#9
Yossarian Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Redondo Beach, CA Posts: 87	[quote]Originally posted by ScottVib: <strong>Yes in real life it would be (mistakenly) scored a SAC because the scorer wouldn't know the batter was trying to get a hit.</strong><hr></blockquote> It's not that hard to tell. In a pure sac situation the batter will square fairly early. Drag bunt/bunt for hit the batter waits till the last second and bunts while leaning towards first, to get out of the box faster.

03-20-2002, 09:37 AM	#10
Kohlman Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Commerce,MI. Posts: 20	I believe this topic came up because in my experiences with the game, using the bunt for a hit choice has been much more successful than just the bunt choice. When I say successful I mean in just moving the runner over to 2nd, not necessarily getting a bunt single. It seems when I am trying to sacrifice with the pitcher using the bunt choice, the attempts are always fouled off. My "sacrifice" usually works when I use bunt for a hit.

03-20-2002, 05:00 PM	#11
bigphesta Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Des Moines, Iowa Posts: 1,366	According to my old highschool baseball coach, You NEVER bunt for the out, you ALWAYS try to get on. Have you EVER seen a batter just stand there? They are ALWAYS trying to get on. If the runner doesn't go, but the player bunts, then that's when the rule for "trying to get a hit" occurs. If the runner advances, it's usually ruled a SH.