Really Not Fun

JeffWard · 09-22-2004, 09:11 PM

I finished my first season playing every game with this year's Cubs going 111-59. The hitting was way behind reality, but with the team ERA at 3.33 it made up for it.

I barely squeak by the Dodgers in the best of 5 and come up against the Braves in the League Championship series. Then bizarre events started occuring. Mark Prior walks 5 men in a row. Kerry Wood was 26-4 in the season and his ERA goes to 18.00! The infield makes 3 errors in a row when they had not even made 2 in a row during the regular season. Kyle Farnsworth's ERA goes from 2.76 in the regular season to 21.00!

Playing against pitchers with ERAs in the 4 and 5 areas I get 2 hits per game. With the power in the current Cubs lineup there are no homeruns and I lose the series 4-1.

Being a baseball fan since 1964 I do understand that anything can happen in a series. It would be frustrating, but realistic if the series came down to a seventh game and some strange things happened, but this one was so statistically off it has really taken the enjoyment out of the game.

Its a lot of work to play every game in a season and then have the engine go nuts in the playoffs is disturbing. Has anyone else had this experience?

Jeff

Steve Kuffrey · 09-22-2004, 09:17 PM

MANY times IRL "the best team" doesn't win. Here's one of many threads on the subject: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ad.php?t=68752

Here's one a bit older but better http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ad.php?t=45413

I did a search for "playoff series" and found many on topic.

Fibonacci · 09-22-2004, 09:18 PM

That is really wierd, and could never happen in real life.

You say the Cubs actually won the pennant?

JeffWard · 09-22-2004, 09:22 PM

Steve,

I thought I made the point that anything can happen in a 7 game series.

The problem is that what occurred was about 4 standard deviations from what happened in the regular season. It was as if those stats did not matter. I don't mind losing, but it has to make sense.

Jeff

statfreak · 09-22-2004, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffWard

Steve,

I thought I made the point that anything can happen in a 7 game series.

The problem is that what occurred was about 4 standard deviations from what happened in the regular season. It was as if those stats did not matter. I don't mind losing, but it has to make sense.

Jeff

it was what 5 games?!? If your players all went cold at the same time and/or the opposing team caught fire, it's not the far out of the realm of probability... now, if you see the same results 3 or 4 years in a row, then something is definitely wrong...

Fibonacci · 09-22-2004, 09:28 PM

My mistake, they were only playnig in the championship series. I guess the curse follows them even in OOTP.

JeffWard · 09-22-2004, 09:36 PM

I would be willing to bet that Mark Prior has never walked 5 men in a row including during his high school career. Having watched almost every Cubs game for years, I have never seen the infield make three errors in a row.

When Kerry Wood pitched agains the Braves in the first round of the Playoffs with a bad arm (only throwing fastballs) his ERA was not 18.00.

My issue is not a team catching fire or collapsing, but having events that have never ever occurred in real life dominating a series.

Again, losing (and winning) has to make sense.

Jeff

rem · 09-22-2004, 09:42 PM

So in otherwords your pissed off because you lost and therefore the game most be broken?

Dan Theman · 09-22-2004, 09:42 PM

Regardless of whatever happens in any set of games, if you find the regular season stats and game outcomes to be acceptable then you really can't effectively argue against the same game engine when you lose

That said, if I played out every single game, got my team in position to win, and then got rocked in the playoffs then I'd a little bittersweet about it, too.

PS - maybe Mark Prior never did that, but a cluster of bytes with a reference name using the characters 'M' 'a' 'r' 'k' '/' 'P' 'r' 'i' 'o' 'r' sure did.

phenom · 09-22-2004, 09:47 PM

man, I know what you mean.

I play NBA Live, and I took the Lakers all the way to the Finals. I had all these great players, and there was no way I'd lose. Then the Pistons came and Kobe stopped making shots, and Gary Payton disappeared, and Karl Malone was useless, and even though Shaq dominated with the ball, they never got it inside to him. I lost to the Pistons 4 games to 1, getting lucky in the one win with a lucky shot to go to OT. Stupid game, I was all over EA about that. That NEVER happens! "If it's in the game" my eye.

Stephen19 · 09-22-2004, 09:48 PM

I don't see what's so shocking. As for the high ERA's, it's the playoffs, an 18.00 ERA is 2 runs in 1 inning. Not exactly a big deal.
Anyone can have a bad game or two. I don't assume he pitched many more if you only played 10 games.
It doesn't take much in a short series for ERA's to skyrocket.
As we all know, the computer doesn't know it's Mark Prior and even if the law of probabilities is low to walk 5 in a row, it probably has happened, maybe not in the playoffs because if a guy walked 3 in a row and then another, he might just taken out, even if it was Prior.
While I can understand your frustration, I don't see this as some amazing surprise in the least. It's the playoffs. Like the best team doesn't lose to the 4th best team many times.
Look at the Braves, best team in regular season since forever, and they've done nothing in playoffs. Losing when they had no business losing. Good players hitting horribly, good pitchers pitching horribly, check out a couple of Maddux's playoffs when he was in his prime. Not logical, but that's the beauty of it.
Luckily baseball is not played on paper or based on stats alone.
Anything can and will happen. Even the unthinkable.

eswan9 · 09-22-2004, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phenom

man, I know what you mean.

I play NBA Live, and I took the Lakers all the way to the Finals. I had all these great players, and there was no way I'd lose. Then the Pistons came and Kobe stopped making shots, and Gary Payton disappeared, and Karl Malone was useless, and even though Shaq dominated with the ball, they never got it inside to him. I lost to the Pistons 4 games to 1, getting lucky in the one win with a lucky shot to go to OT. Stupid game, I was all over EA about that. That NEVER happens! "If it's in the game" my eye.

Phenom,

Let me guess, you decided to hang on to both Shaq and Kobe because those are two guys you can build a franchise around

phenom · 09-22-2004, 10:00 PM

no, I stopped playing that stupid game.

It's UNREALISTIC!!!

eswan9 · 09-22-2004, 10:09 PM

Yes I agree that NBA Live is not like real life BB at all. Give me my OOTP6 anytime!

phenom · 09-22-2004, 10:10 PM

*disclaimer

<--- Pistons fan thru and thru

kingcharlesxii · 09-22-2004, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffWard

I would be willing to bet that Mark Prior has never walked 5 men in a row including during his high school career. Having watched almost every Cubs game for years, I have never seen the infield make three errors in a row.

A young pitcher who had a fantastic year would never suddenly lose his control in the playoffs after all.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/player...e?statsId=6320

JDOldSchool · 09-22-2004, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffWard

I would be willing to bet that Mark Prior has never walked 5 men in a row including during his high school career. Having watched almost every Cubs game for years, I have never seen the infield make three errors in a row.

When Kerry Wood pitched agains the Braves in the first round of the Playoffs with a bad arm (only throwing fastballs) his ERA was not 18.00.

My issue is not a team catching fire or collapsing, but having events that have never ever occurred in real life dominating a series.

Again, losing (and winning) has to make sense.

Jeff

The game has no idea who Mark Prior or Kerry Wood are. If the names were "Jack Jones" and "Steve Johnson" and the same thing happened I don't think you would complain. It sounds like you have expectations based on what these guys do in real life.

Heck, it looks to me like they performed way over real life expectations. Wood nearly doubled his real life career high in wins. Maybe the engine is broken because of that...

Boy I wish I knew how to use those eye-rolling smilies.

Cowboys3356 · 09-22-2004, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffWard

Steve,

I thought I made the point that anything can happen in a 7 game series.

The problem is that what occurred was about 4 standard deviations from what happened in the regular season. It was as if those stats did not matter. I don't mind losing, but it has to make sense.

Jeff

The Cubs haven't won the World Series since 1908, how is that for some "standard deviation" for you?

And besides as a Cubs fan would you really be happy if your team actually did win? I always thought that half the fun of being a Cub or Red Sox fan was losing all the time and then blaming the curse or some other madness!

Rizon · 09-23-2004, 12:02 AM

That's the Seattle Mariners bug. Please download the MarlinsPatch20.03.

holyroller · 09-23-2004, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nestajones

congratulations, this is the ignorant post of the day.

idiot.

No, that one is.

09-22-2004, 09:11 PM	#1
JeffWard Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 107	Really Not Fun I finished my first season playing every game with this year's Cubs going 111-59. The hitting was way behind reality, but with the team ERA at 3.33 it made up for it. I barely squeak by the Dodgers in the best of 5 and come up against the Braves in the League Championship series. Then bizarre events started occuring. Mark Prior walks 5 men in a row. Kerry Wood was 26-4 in the season and his ERA goes to 18.00! The infield makes 3 errors in a row when they had not even made 2 in a row during the regular season. Kyle Farnsworth's ERA goes from 2.76 in the regular season to 21.00! Playing against pitchers with ERAs in the 4 and 5 areas I get 2 hits per game. With the power in the current Cubs lineup there are no homeruns and I lose the series 4-1. Being a baseball fan since 1964 I do understand that anything can happen in a series. It would be frustrating, but realistic if the series came down to a seventh game and some strange things happened, but this one was so statistically off it has really taken the enjoyment out of the game. Its a lot of work to play every game in a season and then have the engine go nuts in the playoffs is disturbing. Has anyone else had this experience? Jeff

09-22-2004, 09:17 PM	#2
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,036	MANY times IRL "the best team" doesn't win. Here's one of many threads on the subject: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ad.php?t=68752 Here's one a bit older but better http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ad.php?t=45413 I did a search for "playoff series" and found many on topic. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

09-22-2004, 09:18 PM	#3
Fibonacci Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 283	That is really wierd, and could never happen in real life. You say the Cubs actually won the pennant? __________________ It is not certain that everything is uncertain. - Blaise Pascal

09-22-2004, 09:28 PM	#6
Fibonacci Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 283	My mistake, they were only playnig in the championship series. I guess the curse follows them even in OOTP. __________________ It is not certain that everything is uncertain. - Blaise Pascal

09-22-2004, 09:42 PM	#8
rem Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: College Park, Md. Posts: 5,024	So in otherwords your pissed off because you lost and therefore the game most be broken? __________________ OTBA: Washington Filibusters CLBR: Minnesota Twins 2005 Winner of LL's Pick the Loser Contest! - 15-0

09-22-2004, 09:22 PM	#4
JeffWard Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 107	Steve, I thought I made the point that anything can happen in a 7 game series. The problem is that what occurred was about 4 standard deviations from what happened in the regular season. It was as if those stats did not matter. I don't mind losing, but it has to make sense. Jeff

09-22-2004, 09:36 PM	#7
JeffWard Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 107	I would be willing to bet that Mark Prior has never walked 5 men in a row including during his high school career. Having watched almost every Cubs game for years, I have never seen the infield make three errors in a row. When Kerry Wood pitched agains the Braves in the first round of the Playoffs with a bad arm (only throwing fastballs) his ERA was not 18.00. My issue is not a team catching fire or collapsing, but having events that have never ever occurred in real life dominating a series. Again, losing (and winning) has to make sense. Jeff

09-22-2004, 09:47 PM	#10
phenom Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Near the Great Wall. On the GOOD side. Posts: 3,774	man, I know what you mean. I play NBA Live, and I took the Lakers all the way to the Finals. I had all these great players, and there was no way I'd lose. Then the Pistons came and Kobe stopped making shots, and Gary Payton disappeared, and Karl Malone was useless, and even though Shaq dominated with the ball, they never got it inside to him. I lost to the Pistons 4 games to 1, getting lucky in the one win with a lucky shot to go to OT. Stupid game, I was all over EA about that. That NEVER happens! "If it's in the game" my eye. __________________ reported

09-22-2004, 09:48 PM	#11
Stephen19 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 50	I don't see what's so shocking. As for the high ERA's, it's the playoffs, an 18.00 ERA is 2 runs in 1 inning. Not exactly a big deal. Anyone can have a bad game or two. I don't assume he pitched many more if you only played 10 games. It doesn't take much in a short series for ERA's to skyrocket. As we all know, the computer doesn't know it's Mark Prior and even if the law of probabilities is low to walk 5 in a row, it probably has happened, maybe not in the playoffs because if a guy walked 3 in a row and then another, he might just taken out, even if it was Prior. While I can understand your frustration, I don't see this as some amazing surprise in the least. It's the playoffs. Like the best team doesn't lose to the 4th best team many times. Look at the Braves, best team in regular season since forever, and they've done nothing in playoffs. Losing when they had no business losing. Good players hitting horribly, good pitchers pitching horribly, check out a couple of Maddux's playoffs when he was in his prime. Not logical, but that's the beauty of it. Luckily baseball is not played on paper or based on stats alone. Anything can and will happen. Even the unthinkable.

09-22-2004, 10:00 PM	#13
phenom Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Near the Great Wall. On the GOOD side. Posts: 3,774	no, I stopped playing that stupid game. It's UNREALISTIC!!! __________________ reported

09-22-2004, 10:09 PM	#14
eswan9 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: San Diego Posts: 195	Yes I agree that NBA Live is not like real life BB at all. Give me my OOTP6 anytime!

09-22-2004, 10:10 PM	#15
phenom Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Near the Great Wall. On the GOOD side. Posts: 3,774	*disclaimer <--- Pistons fan thru and thru __________________ reported

09-23-2004, 12:02 AM	#19
Rizon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: SF Area, California Total Posts: 531,691 Posts: 2,370	That's the Seattle Mariners bug. Please download the MarlinsPatch20.03. __________________ JML MILKSHAKES