A Question on Online Etiquette

[messenjah]

Is it rude to come to another GM and lowball an offer. I do this a lot. I don't expect GM's to agree right off the bat, I expect them to up my offer and do some negotiations. Is this right thinking or am I expected to come straight off the bat and offer them something equal to what they're giving up. See, it is always my belief, that I'm supposed to field the best team possible that I can. I do this by trying to trade as little as I can for as much as I can. Is it my job to make sure that every other team is just as good as mine? I don't think so. So if I screw over some other GM because he's being an idiot, that shouldn't be my problem. He should learn from his mistakes and try and do better next time.

I'm not trying to bash anyone or point anyone out, I just want some honest discussion if what I'm doing is so freaking wrong, or if the other people I trade with have a stick up their bum.

[chrisj]

Is it rude? Maybe not.

But personally, if you lowball me on an offer, I expect you really don't have a clue what I'm looking for in return for that player, and just ignore your offer. You don't have to offer fair value, but it needs to be respectable.

[BradAttitude]

You can make offers like that any time you want. Getting a response is another question. If trolling for idiots is your thing, go ahead. But, don't be surprised if you end up on a few ignore lists.

[ifspuds]

Is it rude to reply that when I pick myself up off the floor after laughing myself out of the chair, I might come up with a counteroffer?

Seriously, maybe it's not wrong. I can understand trying to get the best deal possible. But if it's not at least a starting point for a reasonable discussion, I'm not only not going to continue trying to work on that deal, I'm probably not going to talk to that team in the future. I think there's an important element of mutual respect in being in a league.

[Carlton]

It's a catch 22

If you succeed...good for you

If you happen to do it to me and the 3 guys prior to me...you just 'burned your bridge'...by insulting our intelligence

[LivnLegend]

I'm not a big fan of such tactics. I am not sure it is considered "rude" or not but it deters me from getting into serious trade talks with another owner if he opens with something ridiculous.

I still remember an owner in one of my leagues who told me he assumes every other owner he talks trade with is an idiot until that person proves otherwise. I thought that was kind of a lame argument for sending lowball offers.

[oscarjh]

IMO, if you ridiculously lowball when dealing with a newby, you would be taking advantage and possibly driving him/her away from online play, while a seasoned GM would be so turned off that he/she would be unlikely to deal with you again or might ignore you altogether.
On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with a reasonable and sensible proposal (which addresses the other team's needs), even if offering a little les than you would be willing to trade.

[wireman]

Every offer I make is a serious offer. Ideally, I can get the players I want by offering the other GM what he needs.

If you make me a ridiculously disproportionate offer, you're just wasting my time. I could make an equally silly counteroffer, and waste your time, but I'll just pass and forget about dealing with you.

[O-Man]

There's a limit.

I don't lowball people, but I might offer a little less than I'm willing to give and see if I can get it for that and if not, raise the bar. Everyone wants to give as little as they can to get as much as they can, but you have to work it in a manner that shows you have respect for the GM on the other side of the table.

[Jeremy Weimer]

Wait, there's trading in online leagues?

[jerry]

This tactic enhances the league you are in how exactly?

(Taking it a step further)
So you and a few other owners rip off some less knowledable, less experienced owners in the league. You and a few others have thus created ‘super’ teams that can never be beaten with the only exception of the other ‘super’ teams. As a result all the other non-super teams in the league have absolutely no chance of winning, ever. How much interest in the league is there going to be? (With the exception of the owners of the other ‘super’ teams of course) How exactly does this tactic enhance the league?

IMO and this is just my opinion, if you have to build a winning team by feasting on the inexperienced and less knowledable owners in the league, how can your victories be anything but hollow at best? You would feel good about yourself if the only way you could win was to rip off others? Sounds bush league to me.

On the other hand, if you are making these ridiculous low ball offers just to have something to do with your time, I would suggest volunteering. Helping a cause in your community would be time better spent don’t you think?

Maybe you should use this golden rule before offering a trade: If I would not accept the trade offer, I will not make the trade offer.

Rude? Not really rude. Detrimental to the league, possibly.

[ukhotstove]

We all try to get the best for our team but to really low ball people I mean its a bit below the belt and makes it even worse if it's a rookie,then you wonder why he quits the league after a couple of sims.In fact you may laugh but when I trade with a complete rookie I always do the opposite I give him what I deem fair in return for the player I want plus I'll also throw in a prospect or two just to help him out,or go through his team with him and find out what he needs and doesn't need.After all surely its the job of an expierienced GM to help out the rookies of OOTP.

The one that really gets under my skin though is when a GM approaches you about a trade,you say hang on a second I'll go crunch the numbers and see what we can do then when you return with an offer he says "nevermind I don't think I'll trade him" now don't get me wrong I know all trades don't go through but I hate it when someone goes fishing with other teams to see how much his guy is worth,if you want to find a players worth then put him on your trade block.

[Dagrims]

Originally Posted by messenjah

Is it rude to come to another GM and lowball an offer. I do this a lot....So if I screw over some other GM because he's being an idiot, that shouldn't be my problem. He should learn from his mistakes and try and do better next time.

Why don't you just play solo? You can rip off the AI as much as you want.

[steveman211]

Originally Posted by Dagrims

Why don't you just play solo? You can rip off the AI as much as you want.

Well said. If its a 1st time offender I'll usually whip out a heavy dose of sarcasm but if its a repeat offender I'll go rip**** on him.

[jdalo]

i was in the preseason of the first season of a league when the atlanta owner expressed interest in greg colbrunn. im arizona. so i offer colbrunn for betemit and francouer. we were using the CBL roster set. is that really that bad of an offer? everyone has their value for what different players are worth. i dont think there is such a thing as lowballing. the pirates offered benson for david wright in real life. some people might call that lowballing. that kind of stuff is just part of the game. if someone makes an offer you dont like, ya, go ahead and laugh, but i dont ignore them because then you may be just ruining an opportunity to better your team. this is a game where you try to make yourself better, like capitalism. this is americas game, ment to be played americas way. i am a fan of the lowly pirates and hate the high budget teams, but at the same i realize that they are acting the way they should act. After all, the point is to win, isnt it? if teams didnt do all they could to put the best team on the field(excluding finiancial difficulties), then wouldnt that sort of ruin the integrity of the game? What ever happened to being competitive?

[DHS23]

Originally Posted by chrisj

You don't have to offer fair value, but it needs to be respectable.

Exactly. Come up with an offer that you think is fair. More than likely, it will be to your advantage. It'd be stupid to offer something like Victor Zambrano for Vladimir Guerrero, but offering something like Brett Tomko for Victor Zambrano could work. Both have their shortcomings, though Zambrano is a bit better.

[satchel]

Originally Posted by messenjah

...it is always my belief, that I'm supposed to field the best team possible that I can. So if I screw over some other GM because he's being an idiot...

You should ‘field the best team possible’ ethically. Exploiting the ignorant is unethical.

Originally Posted by oscarjh

...if you ridiculously lowball when dealing with a newby, you would be taking advantage.

Originally Posted by jerry

...you...rip off some less knowledable, less experienced owners in the league?

Originally Posted by ukhotstove

...to really low ball people I mean its a bit below the belt.

I agree with these honorable opinions.

[uktaurusbulba]

Low balling is one thing but trying to rip someone off is another. I dont think you offer high initially because you assume its going to go back and forth and usually your first offer is not going to be good enough. What stinks soemtimes is when you make offers for other teams star players and they say they wont trade the guy because hes a star and then they come back and lowball you for your star. I think thats a little insulting.
But, in ootp, there are so many ways to look at a trade. (financial, age, if your able to resign,etc) What looks like a lopsided trade sometimes will wind up favoring the team that looks like they were getting ripped.

[pmarkel]

I very rarely make an "opening" offer. I usually tell the other GM who I'm interested in, then ask who on my team they are interested in and negotiate from there. I don't feel bad if I underpay for a guy if the other GM is trying to dump salary. I acquired Bo Jackson in one of my leagues and he is better than any player on my roster and I got him for two "Single A" prospects. The catch...Bo was making $20 million. Other than the salary dump scenario I don't see any case where "lowballing" helps. I find that if you make "fair" offers GMs will deal with you easier in the future and thus you've created an environment where you have the opportunity to improve your team year after year as opposed to "1" lopsided trade.

[octones]

I find it to be very rude. This is not our full time job like a GM in real life. We all have class and/or work and family that take up our time. Listening and responding to such offers is a waste of time already stretched thin.