Bah

[Claybor]

OOTP was a nice idea when it started, it's too bad you have never actually fixed your product. Everytime you start getting close you release another bug filled mess. I dont hate you folks or anything, I am not mad as hell and screaming, but I have spent my last $$$ on any of your products, I guess maybe if there was some competition for the game it might actually get better rather then just newer.

[JoeRockEHF]

Everyone has their own opinions Claybor but I think OOTP6 is the best one yet. Maybe the new OOTP7 by SI late next year will bring you back.

[DiMaggio5CF]

You have a right to feel that way, and you've chosen the best way to express those feelings -- to stop buying the product.

[Dagrims]

Constructive, schmonstructive.

[Dan Theman]

Well, I still think it's a nice idea - and considering there isn't any worthwhile competition (in my mind), I think that makes it the best baseball management game around. As long as it remains so, the improvements seem worth it, and the support continues to fix any issues I have, I'll plop down my money over and over again.

[Dargone]

Guuuhhh...

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by Claybor

OOTP was a nice idea when it started, it's too bad you have never actually fixed your product. Everytime you start getting close you release another bug filled mess. I dont hate you folks or anything, I am not mad as hell and screaming, but I have spent my last $$$ on any of your products, I guess maybe if there was some competition for the game it might actually get better rather then just newer.

I wish Markus would refine the game...that is, fix as many of the bugs that can be fixed...and improve and expand things like play-by-play results and game strategies and make it a realistic baseball game as far as playing out the game rather than simming...THEN ADD NEW FEATURES. I agree with you. He needs to make it better, not newer. New features just add more bugs to the game to be fixed when he already has enough to fix from previous versions.

Having said that...I think OOTP6 is a great game...the best one so far...and worth far more to me than the $26 I paid for it.

[Dan Theman]

Originally Posted by Dargone

Guuuhhh...

... spelled backwards: "hhhuuug"

Awww, isn't it cute?

[D'artagnan]

Originally Posted by Claybor

OOTP was a nice idea when it started, it's too bad you have never actually fixed your product. Everytime you start getting close you release another bug filled mess. I dont hate you folks or anything, I am not mad as hell and screaming, but I have spent my last $$$ on any of your products, I guess maybe if there was some competition for the game it might actually get better rather then just newer.

Your kidding me right? What baseball sim out there is better than OOTP? No wait, I'll give you the answer-NONE. As a matter of fact, what baseball game is better than OOTP-NONE!!! Sounds like your just complaining to complain

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by D'artagnan

Your kidding me right? What baseball sim out there is better than OOTP? No wait, I'll give you the answer-NONE. As a matter of fact, what baseball game is better than OOTP-NONE!!! Sounds like your just complaining to complain

I don't think he is complaining to just be complaining...he is just giving his opinion and experience with the game.

We should not criticise someone just because we do not agree with their opinion. We should just state our opinion and disagreement in a courteous fashion.

[wireman]

Originally Posted by D'artagnan

Your kidding me right? What baseball sim out there is better than OOTP? No wait, I'll give you the answer-NONE. As a matter of fact, what baseball game is better than OOTP-NONE!!! Sounds like your just complaining to complain

Claybor's not a whiner. If he's complaining, he's got good reasons.

You are free to disagree.

[PistolPete]

I agree OOTP5 was never totally fixed as well as OOTP6 was never fully tested.. the control issues is still nothing short of a disaster in the conversion, the finances when converted is a mess.... can I go on the people who beta tested this and said it was go.. this is for you. I paid for oopt6 just like everyone else this is MY right to vent and I'm just tired of hearing hey we tried. IF you tried right you would not have rushed this product out and to even hear oopt7 is coming possibly anytime soon (within a year ) is even more laughable!! Get ootp6 FIXED first please in general this is a great game but fix the BUGS!

[Officespace99]

I usually agree w/ Claybor...and this time is no different. The unacceptible product quality has really disheartened me towards investing more $ in the OOTP series. While I would never move NOBL off of OOTP, I seriously doubt I could ask my fellow GM's to go up to a new product based on the last 2 'upgrades'. When version 6 is updated to address all of the outstanding issues, I would have no problem keeping NOBL on 6 indefinately. Why move ahead and thus add mountains of corrections for the commish, delays waiting for patches that are needed to even start a season, and destabilizing a league.

[Malleus Dei]

Originally Posted by Eugene Church

I wish Markus would refine the game...that is, fix as many of the bugs that can be fixed...and improve and expand things like play-by-play results and game strategies and make it a realistic baseball game as far as playing out the game rather than simming...THEN ADD NEW FEATURES. I agree with you. He needs to make it better, not newer. New features just add more bugs to the game to be fixed when he already has enough to fix from previous versions.

Having said that...I think OOTP6 is a great game...the best one so far...and worth far more to me than the $26 I paid for it.

Fixing bugs doesn't generate new cash flow. Releasing new products - whether the previous versions' bugs remain in them or not - does generate new cash flow.

Simple economics.

[mking55]

Originally Posted by Claybor

OOTP was a nice idea when it started, it's too bad you have never actually fixed your product. Everytime you start getting close you release another bug filled mess. I dont hate you folks or anything, I am not mad as hell and screaming, but I have spent my last $$$ on any of your products, I guess maybe if there was some competition for the game it might actually get better rather then just newer.

Well put and very calmly too. I admire that.

I agree with you and I believe a lot of others do also. However, the only way to vote is with your wallet. As long as people accept what is there and purchase, then nothing will be done to totally rectify the problems and false promises.

Of course, it's not OOTP7 that you will be withholding your money from, but whatever SIgames decides to call it. In a way that's a shame because will your vote (or my vote for that matter) make a difference? I don't know.

As far as people saying it's the best game out there, that is a meaningless statement to me. If you are trapped in a mine cave-in and run out of water, do you choose to die of thirst or drink your own urine? I will bet on the urine, but that doesn't make the urine good. (This is not to compare ootp to urine, but it was the best analogy I could come up with on short notice).

In closing, finally, I just wish more people who were dissatisfied would have said so out loud. That might have made a difference. I too am disappointed with the unfulfilled promise of a once excellent idea.

[Matt from TN]

Originally Posted by Officespace99

While I would never move NOBL off of OOTP, I seriously doubt I could ask my fellow GM's to go up to a new product based on the last 2 'upgrades'. When version 6 is updated to address all of the outstanding issues, I would have no problem keeping NOBL on 6 indefinately. Why move ahead and thus add mountains of corrections for the commish, delays waiting for patches that are needed to even start a season, and destabilizing a league.

I'm slowly coming to this conclusion about my leagues as well.... OOTP6 made a mess of pitching, with some former stars being just average now... frustrating for many owners...

Originally Posted by mking55

(This is not to compare ootp to urine, but it was the best analogy I could come up with on short notice).

I always like your analogies.

[Carlton]

A urine analogy?

That's a 1st! Reading too much Moises Alou cookbooks?

There is some good, some bad with OOTP6...there is always more that I campaign for...(roster limits, Ai picking up Fa with no financials, DIPS, Ai eval, spped over OBP) that gets in than not (fianancial coefficent, UZR, expansion draft) and every new version it gets harder to recreate history...but it is still the best until another knocks it off...thats just how it works...OOTP had to knock Baseball Mogul off and another game will knock OOTP off.

I really think OOTP7 might be the downfall of OOTP...and I might be the one complaining here next year...or over at the SI forums.

[jazzrack]

Originally Posted by Eugene Church

I wish Markus would refine the game...that is, fix as many of the bugs that can be fixed...and improve and expand things like play-by-play results and game strategies and make it a realistic baseball game as far as playing out the game rather than simming...THEN ADD NEW FEATURES. I agree with you. He needs to make it better, not newer. New features just add more bugs to the game to be fixed when he already has enough to fix from previous versions.

Having said that...I think OOTP6 is a great game...the best one so far...and worth far more to me than the $26 I paid for it.

i agree,

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Carlton

A urine analogy?

That's a 1st! Reading too much Moises Alou cookbooks?

There is some good, some bad with OOTP6...there is always more that I campaign for...(roster limits, Ai picking up Fa with no financials, DIPS, Ai eval, spped over OBP) that gets in than not (fianancial coefficent, UZR, expansion draft) and every new version it gets harder to recreate history...but it is still the best until another knocks it off...thats just how it works...OOTP had to knock Baseball Mogul off and another game will knock OOTP off.

I really think OOTP7 might be the downfall of OOTP...and I might be the one complaining here next year...or over at the SI forums.

I think the problem is OOTP has tried too hard to be all things to all people. This will NOT work. The best thing for SI to do is to turn OOTP into another form of CM. Yes this will mena the game shoulod primarily concentrate on being single player oriented and a sim of modern day baseball. I'm sorry folks but I think that's just the way it's going to have to be. I for one fave confidence if SI can do with this game what it's done for CM and East Side Hockey.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Officespace99

The unacceptible product quality has really disheartened me towards investing more $ in the OOTP series.

I can understand that point of view at the game's initial release, but I've seen relatively few complaints since the 6.03 patch was put out. That has seemed to take care of most of the big bugs that were irritating people.

Originally Posted by Officespace99

When version 6 is updated to address all of the outstanding issues ...

Okay, can someone please state a list of what exactly all these "outstanding issues" are? I keep seeing people state this but I never see a list of what this constitutes.

A couple of things come to mind about that: first, the patching cycle on the game is not over, so if there are still some rather major bugs they'll likely get addressed. Second, I think some folks are calling some things bugs which are in fact design choices.

Limited play-by-play text? Design choice, as Markus decided to put his programming time into different areas. That's entirely his perogative as the creator of the game. No HR allowed in pitcher's stat? Design choice, as the database structure simply does not allow this information to be included without a major rewrite of the database code. And guess what would have happened had that occurred? Backwards compatibility would have largely gone down the tubes, and I can bet nearly everyone would have complained about that. Inaccurate career OBP for players? Same problem, database structure. No playoffs in a single league? Design choice, as that was the way the game was originally coded. There are probably lots more examples, but there are the ones that I can think of off the top of my head.

A design choice is not a bug; a bug is when the code does not function as it's programmer intended it too.

Now, I'll be the first to wish that certain design choices hadn't been made when Markus first put the game together, and that more flexibility had been built into the code. Of course, that's hindsight and it's easy to see now how the code structure should have been set up to account for some of these issues. But then, I doubt Markus anticipated just how and in what direction the game would grow. Then there's also the experience aspect, since with more experience one can make better choices than one could at the outset.

I've made that observation before about flexibility, and from the responses I've seen from programmers, including Markus, Arlie of TPF, and Marc from SI, I have a better appreciation of the difficulties involved and the hard choices that sometimes have to get made, and how the code can grow differently from what one expected and planned for.

Finally, maybe it's because I've been playing computer games since 1988, but I just don't get that attached to any of them anymore. I've seen more bug-filled releases and poor game play quality titles than I care to count. Basically, I take it all with a grain of salt, and as long as I find the game enjoyable I'll play it, and if I don't find it worthwhile, I'll skip it. I won't harp on about all the money I spent on this or the amount of time played on that, because frankly, so what? If a game stops being worthwhile to me I'll just go find another, it's that simple.

Now, in the case of a game where I feel that I may be able to help make it better because it's developer is willing to listen to ideas and suggestions, then I will avail myself of that opportunity. I petitioned long and hard about the value of proper schedules, and eventually got rewarded with OOTP's current schedule importer/exporter. Is it perfect? No. But it gets the job done, so I'm satisified for the moment. I will though try to get it improved, along with any other ideas that I think would be beneficial to the game.

And there's my six cents about that. It's too long of a post for it to only be two cents.