Pbp, substitution, fight

Biggie Fries · 06-27-2004, 10:25 PM

This one is a bit involved, so please bear with me...

Atlanta (ATL) is at Jacksonville (JAC). I am human-managing ATL. Joseph Line (ATL) has doubled in the second and homered in the fourth. So when he comes up again, in the seventh, Omar Abad (JAC) hits him with a pitch. (I mean, how cool is that? I suspect it is only coincidence, but if this was somehow wired into the game, then hat's off to you, Markus.)

The play-by-play (pbp) says something to the effect of "Uh-oh, Line is hurt." Whenever one of my players is hurt, I get panicky and want to see how long they will be out. So I immediately click on Atlanta under Substitutions, and find Line's name. I click on it and see that he will only be out for three days.

Now, Line is one of four guys I have who can play second base. Another is Allen Favela (ATL) who I am resting because he is tired. Kirby McBean (ATL) is already in the game, playing third for Favela. So is Kyle Thrush (ATL), who is playing rightfield for William Nealey (ATL), who is already injured. Point is: I am really short on players. My only choice is to put David Moorhead (ATL) in to pinchrun for Line. I drag him onto Line's slot in the roster. This makes the game view him as a pinchrunner (PR).

Usually at this point I would return to the game to see how things turn out. The score is Jacksonville 4, Atlanta 2--it's a good game. But I am worried about getting my substitutions right. So, before I return to the game, I go ahead and right-click on Moorhead to change him from PR to RF. I right-click on Thrush to change him from RF to 2B.

Here is where the trouble starts. When I "Return to Game," I find the pbp rolling. Apparently Line (ATL) has charged the mound to go after Abad (JAC). (Way to go, Joseph!) This is my fifteenth solo season and the first fight that I had seen. I was eating it up. The computer then flipped me to the lineups, apparently because Line was now ejected. Of course, I had already removed him. In the lineups, Moorhead was in Line's spot in the batting order, and listed in rightfield. I was a little nervous, but went "Back to Game."

When I did, the pbp reported that Wesley Schoenberger (JAC) had replaced Abad at pitcher for Jacksonville. But, lo and behold, who did the diamond show as running at first base? Not Line (ATL), who had been injured and then ejected. Not Moorhead (ATL), with whom I had tried to replace him. Schoenberger (JAC), who was also now pitching!

Three batters later, Schoenberger (JAC) came around to score for ATL (against himself!) The scoreboard registered his run correctly (for ATL), but the boxscore showed him as scoring a run for JAC!

I figured I could live the boxscore being out of whack, but one more thing disturbed me. An inning or so later, when I went to change pitchers, I found that Moorhead (ATL), who was ostensibly still in the game and playing rightfield (even if Schoenberger had somehow managed to run for him in lieu of Line) was lit up in blue, for having been ejected. The game was too good at this point to cancel it--it was now tied at 4 in the eighth--so I used my last non-injured, non-tired, non-ejected position player to "go in" for Moorhead, lest something screw up when he came around to bat.

That's basically it, except it turned into one of those extra inning games where every player was used. By the top of the 12th, JAC was using an infielder to catch, and he helped let him one of two runs in the 13th (via a passed ball) that gave ATL a 6-4 lead. Also instrumental was a single by MR Alberto Solo (ATL), who was forced to bat since there weren't any other players. One of the reasons for this was that in the top of the 12th, Atlanta's catcher, Paul Goodwin (ATL), was ejected for arguing a called third strike. (How cool is this game?) He was replaced by tired Allen Favela (ATL), who was catching in the bottom of the 13th when Jacksonville rallied against the league's top closer, Dion Manzaneres (ATL), who, with two outs and a one-run lead, gave up a two-run single to MR Milton Nutting (JAC), who had never batted before.

So, partly I'm reporting what I suspect is a hard-to-reproduce substitution problem; and partly I'm sharing one of the most interesting games I have played in some time.

Single A Rookie · 06-28-2004, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggie Fries

So, partly I'm reporting what I suspect is a hard-to-reproduce substitution problem; and partly I'm sharing one of the most interesting games I have played in some time.

You are damn straight that is a hard one to reproduce!!! Even despite the fact you were very elloquent and concise in your description!

Thanks for sharing that... that was a great read!

And Markus... if you can weed this one out of the game (or even reproduce it) you will raise the bar of what I think of your capabilities even higher!!

Single A Rookie · 06-28-2004, 09:33 AM

Hey Biggie Fries.... I was browsing the forum reading all the issues about the game (I run league and am preparing to migrate to v6 - so I like to stay up on bugs before we move

) and anyways... posted on the same day as you posted your thread I came across this:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ad.php?t=68054

You got it!!! The EXACT same bug!

It seems when there is a brawl the pitcher that comes in to replace the ejected pitcher ends up ALSO becoming the pinch runner.

Now, after seeing it twice (once now without all the roster moves you made) I think this will be a rather simple fix - since it has nothing to do with all the moves you made. The bug rests completely in the "brawl" routine....

phenom · 06-28-2004, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggie Fries

So, partly I'm reporting what I suspect is a hard-to-reproduce substitution problem; and partly I'm sharing one of the most interesting games I have played in some time.

Sounds like a lead story on Sportscenter.

Biggie Fries · 06-28-2004, 11:16 AM

Single A--

Props for locating another instance of this problem. I confess I am not too good at searching for similar cases, if only because I'm never too sure of what keywords to use. But you got it, and the good thing is that it really does appear to be related to this fight. I feared it might be so arcane--i.e., having something to do with all of my interventions--that it could never realistically be tracked down.

06-27-2004, 10:25 PM	#1
Biggie Fries Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Bryn Mawr, PA USA Posts: 115	Pbp, substitution, fight This one is a bit involved, so please bear with me... Atlanta (ATL) is at Jacksonville (JAC). I am human-managing ATL. Joseph Line (ATL) has doubled in the second and homered in the fourth. So when he comes up again, in the seventh, Omar Abad (JAC) hits him with a pitch. (I mean, how cool is that? I suspect it is only coincidence, but if this was somehow wired into the game, then hat's off to you, Markus.) The play-by-play (pbp) says something to the effect of "Uh-oh, Line is hurt." Whenever one of my players is hurt, I get panicky and want to see how long they will be out. So I immediately click on Atlanta under Substitutions, and find Line's name. I click on it and see that he will only be out for three days. Now, Line is one of four guys I have who can play second base. Another is Allen Favela (ATL) who I am resting because he is tired. Kirby McBean (ATL) is already in the game, playing third for Favela. So is Kyle Thrush (ATL), who is playing rightfield for William Nealey (ATL), who is already injured. Point is: I am really short on players. My only choice is to put David Moorhead (ATL) in to pinchrun for Line. I drag him onto Line's slot in the roster. This makes the game view him as a pinchrunner (PR). Usually at this point I would return to the game to see how things turn out. The score is Jacksonville 4, Atlanta 2--it's a good game. But I am worried about getting my substitutions right. So, before I return to the game, I go ahead and right-click on Moorhead to change him from PR to RF. I right-click on Thrush to change him from RF to 2B. Here is where the trouble starts. When I "Return to Game," I find the pbp rolling. Apparently Line (ATL) has charged the mound to go after Abad (JAC). (Way to go, Joseph!) This is my fifteenth solo season and the first fight that I had seen. I was eating it up. The computer then flipped me to the lineups, apparently because Line was now ejected. Of course, I had already removed him. In the lineups, Moorhead was in Line's spot in the batting order, and listed in rightfield. I was a little nervous, but went "Back to Game." When I did, the pbp reported that Wesley Schoenberger (JAC) had replaced Abad at pitcher for Jacksonville. But, lo and behold, who did the diamond show as running at first base? Not Line (ATL), who had been injured and then ejected. Not Moorhead (ATL), with whom I had tried to replace him. Schoenberger (JAC), who was also now pitching! Three batters later, Schoenberger (JAC) came around to score for ATL (against himself!) The scoreboard registered his run correctly (for ATL), but the boxscore showed him as scoring a run for JAC! I figured I could live the boxscore being out of whack, but one more thing disturbed me. An inning or so later, when I went to change pitchers, I found that Moorhead (ATL), who was ostensibly still in the game and playing rightfield (even if Schoenberger had somehow managed to run for him in lieu of Line) was lit up in blue, for having been ejected. The game was too good at this point to cancel it--it was now tied at 4 in the eighth--so I used my last non-injured, non-tired, non-ejected position player to "go in" for Moorhead, lest something screw up when he came around to bat. That's basically it, except it turned into one of those extra inning games where every player was used. By the top of the 12th, JAC was using an infielder to catch, and he helped let him one of two runs in the 13th (via a passed ball) that gave ATL a 6-4 lead. Also instrumental was a single by MR Alberto Solo (ATL), who was forced to bat since there weren't any other players. One of the reasons for this was that in the top of the 12th, <i>Atlanta</i>'s catcher, Paul Goodwin (ATL), was ejected for arguing a called third strike. (How cool <i>is</i> this game?) He was replaced by tired Allen Favela (ATL), who was catching in the bottom of the 13th when Jacksonville rallied against the league's top closer, Dion Manzaneres (ATL), who, with two outs and a one-run lead, gave up a two-run single to MR Milton Nutting (JAC), who had never batted before. So, partly I'm reporting what I suspect is a hard-to-reproduce substitution problem; and partly I'm sharing one of the most interesting games I have played in some time.

06-28-2004, 11:16 AM	#5
Biggie Fries Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Bryn Mawr, PA USA Posts: 115	Single A-- Props for locating another instance of this problem. I confess I am not too good at searching for similar cases, if only because I'm never too sure of what keywords to use. But you got it, and the good thing is that it really does appear to be related to this fight. I feared it might be so arcane--<i>i.e.</i>, having something to do with all of my interventions--that it could never realistically be tracked down.

06-28-2004, 09:33 AM	#3
Single A Rookie Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 144	Hey Biggie Fries.... I was browsing the forum reading all the issues about the game (I run league and am preparing to migrate to v6 - so I like to stay up on bugs before we move ) and anyways... posted on the same day as you posted your thread I came across this: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ad.php?t=68054 You got it!!! The EXACT same bug! It seems when there is a brawl the pitcher that comes in to replace the ejected pitcher ends up ALSO becoming the pinch runner. Now, after seeing it twice (once now without all the roster moves you made) I think this will be a rather simple fix - since it has nothing to do with all the moves you made. The bug rests completely in the "brawl" routine....