50-Season Sim With 6.03 Uploaded

Ben E Lou · 06-24-2004, 03:04 PM

OK....for those who want to examine player development, long-term stability, stats, etc., I have finished the upload of a 51-season league. It can be found at http://www.younglifenorthlake.com/ootp603

zyk · 06-24-2004, 03:09 PM

you added a extra 'c' to that link.

Ben E Lou · 06-24-2004, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zyk

you added a extra 'c' to that link.

Fixed. My bad.

Kemp · 06-24-2004, 03:17 PM

Can/should I assume that this test was run with all creation and development modifiers at 0?

rdklein · 06-24-2004, 03:17 PM

I'm really questioning the whole integrity and realism of the game now.

The Cubs beat the Red Sox in the 2054 world series?

Everyone knows that can't happen. This problem need to be addressed... pronto!

Ben E Lou · 06-24-2004, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kemp

Can/should I assume that this test was run with all creation and development modifiers at 0?

Yes. I do all tests in betas at default settings. My (strong) opinion is that a game should deliver solid, realistic results with the default settings. It should not be up to the user to tweak settings to make the game realistic. That's up to the developer. Modifiers *should* be for those who want to do just that--modify the game, not fix the game.

Dargone · 06-24-2004, 03:36 PM

Thanks SkyDog

Dargone · 06-24-2004, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Yes. I do all tests in betas at default settings. My (strong) opinion is that a game should deliver solid, realistic results with the default settings. It should not be up to the user to tweak settings to make the game realistic. That's up to the developer. Modifiers *should* be for those who want to do just that--modify the game, not fix the game.

Agreed 100%...

silvam14 · 06-24-2004, 03:50 PM

Drat! The Red Sox are still cursed even up until 2054?

blackrussian · 06-24-2004, 03:52 PM

interesting coincidence: cubs won in '34, '44 and '54. there's hope yet

v'

84CubsFan · 06-24-2004, 04:32 PM

What happened in 2053? Strike season?

Ben E Lou · 06-24-2004, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 84CubsFan

What happened in 2053? Strike season?

Power outage.

phenom · 06-24-2004, 05:17 PM

L
M
A
O

Kaline · 06-24-2004, 05:18 PM

I noticed a lot of the stars broke out at 23. Even some that debuted at 20 and 21. Lots of 20 years careers. Even some 19 year olds. Im fairly satisfied with that. I think maybe a small tweak is needed (+25 or so on the development modifier) but overall it looked ok.

dave724 · 06-24-2004, 05:22 PM

hmm... I have been curious about veterans for sometime with this game.. the fact that guys seem to fall of the face of the earth around 34-35 and severly decrease... I am curious about how this is handled now... Skimming the career average leaders I found a few veterans who seemed to have been producting upto 36-37 years old... Not bad, I wonder if there is a way to tweak this further or if you guys think that is ok... I am thinking of today's game of course, since players are better in shape and are able to have longer careers mostly because of better long term conditioning

phenom · 06-24-2004, 05:23 PM

holy crap... I've never had a player finish a career with numbers anywhere near this guy's: http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/ootp603/r1195.html

dave724 · 06-24-2004, 05:29 PM

amazing... and he played until he was 44!! I love that... and look how well he played even at 42... this is what I am talking about...

Cardinal Rule · 06-24-2004, 05:48 PM

First thing that stuck out at me was that the career HR leader was a 2B, and number 2 on that list was a SS. I felt a little better when finding the rest of the top 10 were outfielders or cornermen, so I can live with that even though IRL Ernie Banks and Cal Ripken are the only middle infielders on the career HR top 50, although A-Rod will join that list in the near future too. Interestingly the only other middle infielder IRL that is on the top 100 career HR list is Rogers Hornsby.

Just an observation...

blackrussian · 06-24-2004, 06:40 PM

out of curiosity, i looked at the award winners (batting) and compared the history of this sim vs MLB. i know i have personally seen what i thought was a slightly disproportionate number of 1B winning the batting crown and i think a few other people mentioned this as well. so....did a little number checking:

MLB AL (n=51) OOTP AL (n=50)
C 10% C 0%
1B 15% 1B 32%
2B 2% 2B 8%
3B 6% 3B 4%
SS 12% SS 18%
OF 43% OF 36%
P 12%

MLB ML (n=52) OOTP NL (n=50)
C 8% C 6%
1B 12% 1B 24%
2B 8% 2B 10%
3B 15% 3B 24%
SS 10% SS 6%
OF 42% OF 30%
P 5%

for MLB, the years were 1953-2003.
an obvious thing to keep in mind is that pitchers are also eligible for the MVP in the majors, while OOTP is batters exclusively.

also, in OOTP, there were a number of times one player dominated for a significant stretch of time. example: juan ayo who won 6(!) consecutive MVB's as a SS. several years later, he won a 7th. that player alone accounted for 7 of 9 (78%) awards from a SS. i think there were several other position in which one player accounted for a good chunk of awards. The majors had no players with more than a 2 year MVP winning streak.

eras of play is probably a factor. the ootp sim presumable was set on modern and not changed over the duration of the sim. in MLB, we can still see some important distinctions, like 1968, when hitting was as low as it had been in a long time, and introduction of the DH in 1973.

that said, there was a noticeable difference between OOTP and MLB at the 1B position; actually, OOTP had twice as many firstbasemen winning the award in both leagues. the high percentage of SS in the OOTP AL was due to juan ayo's 7 awards. and amazingly, no catcher won an award in the 50 year OOTP history. most of the other positions are pretty close to each other.

what does this mean? maybe the game overvalues 1B (like middle relievers)? or the player creation algorithms makes 1B a little too offensively skilled? this is based on only 1 50 yr sim, be interesting to see some others. and this is probably moot for you, unless yr going after a more realistic MLB environment. ive no problems with the number of times a player wins an award, but cant help wonder if theres a specific reason on why so many are won by 1B.

v'

jrzalman · 06-24-2004, 07:48 PM

<i>holy crap... I've never had a player finish a career with numbers anywhere near this guy's: http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/ootp603/r1195.html</i>

It's amazing to me that the guy played 24 seasons (all with the same team!), hit 601 HR and never once led the league in HR. Tough luck there considering he led the league in slugging four times and OPS seven times.

06-24-2004, 03:04 PM	#1
Ben E Lou Front Office Football Central Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Souf Cackilacky Posts: 1,762	50-Season Sim With 6.03 Uploaded OK....for those who want to examine player development, long-term stability, stats, etc., I have finished the upload of a 51-season league. It can be found at http://www.younglifenorthlake.com/ootp603 <!-- / message --><!-- sig --> Last edited by Ben E Lou; 06-24-2004 at 03:09 PM.

06-24-2004, 03:36 PM	#7
Dargone Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Interwebs Posts: 2,862	Thanks SkyDog __________________ I was never one to patiently pick up broken fragments and glue them together again and tell myself that the mended whole was as good as new. What is broken is broken -- and I'd rather remember it as it was at its best than mend it and see the broken places as long as I lived.-Margaret Mitchell

06-24-2004, 05:17 PM	#13
phenom Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Near the Great Wall. On the GOOD side. Posts: 3,770	L M A O __________________ reported

06-24-2004, 05:22 PM	#15
dave724 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 48	hmm... I have been curious about veterans for sometime with this game.. the fact that guys seem to fall of the face of the earth around 34-35 and severly decrease... I am curious about how this is handled now... Skimming the career average leaders I found a few veterans who seemed to have been producting upto 36-37 years old... Not bad, I wonder if there is a way to tweak this further or if you guys think that is ok... I am thinking of today's game of course, since players are better in shape and are able to have longer careers mostly because of better long term conditioning __________________ David Pereira Former Commissioner of the Long standing SSBL

06-24-2004, 05:23 PM	#16
phenom Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Near the Great Wall. On the GOOD side. Posts: 3,770	holy crap... I've never had a player finish a career with numbers anywhere near this guy's: http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/ootp603/r1195.html __________________ reported

06-24-2004, 03:09 PM	#2
zyk Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: vegas Posts: 177	you added a extra 'c' to that link.

06-24-2004, 03:17 PM	#4
Kemp All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,181	Can/should I assume that this test was run with all creation and development modifiers at 0?

06-24-2004, 03:17 PM	#5
rdklein All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: The other side. Posts: 773	I'm really questioning the whole integrity and realism of the game now. The Cubs beat the Red Sox in the 2054 world series? Everyone knows that can't happen. This problem need to be addressed... pronto!

06-24-2004, 03:50 PM	#9
silvam14 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Dedham, MA Posts: 10,098	Drat! The Red Sox are still cursed even up until 2054?

06-24-2004, 03:52 PM	#10
blackrussian All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 954	interesting coincidence: cubs won in '34, '44 and '54. there's hope yet v'

06-24-2004, 04:32 PM	#11
84CubsFan Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 376	What happened in 2053? Strike season?

06-24-2004, 05:18 PM	#14
Kaline Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 321	I noticed a lot of the stars broke out at 23. Even some that debuted at 20 and 21. Lots of 20 years careers. Even some 19 year olds. Im fairly satisfied with that. I think maybe a small tweak is needed (+25 or so on the development modifier) but overall it looked ok.

06-24-2004, 05:29 PM	#17
dave724 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 48	amazing... and he played until he was 44!! I love that... and look how well he played even at 42... this is what I am talking about... __________________ David Pereira Former Commissioner of the Long standing SSBL

06-24-2004, 05:48 PM	#18
Cardinal Rule All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Omaha Posts: 1,199	First thing that stuck out at me was that the career HR leader was a 2B, and number 2 on that list was a SS. I felt a little better when finding the rest of the top 10 were outfielders or cornermen, so I can live with that even though IRL Ernie Banks and Cal Ripken are the only middle infielders on the career HR top 50, although A-Rod will join that list in the near future too. Interestingly the only other middle infielder IRL that is on the top 100 career HR list is Rogers Hornsby. Just an observation... __________________ "Go Crazy Folks!" Jack Buck

06-24-2004, 06:40 PM	#19
blackrussian All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 954	out of curiosity, i looked at the award winners (batting) and compared the history of this sim vs MLB. i know i have personally seen what i thought was a slightly disproportionate number of 1B winning the batting crown and i think a few other people mentioned this as well. so....did a little number checking: MLB AL (n=51) OOTP AL (n=50) C 10% C 0% 1B 15% 1B 32% 2B 2% 2B 8% 3B 6% 3B 4% SS 12% SS 18% OF 43% OF 36% P 12% MLB ML (n=52) OOTP NL (n=50) C 8% C 6% 1B 12% 1B 24% 2B 8% 2B 10% 3B 15% 3B 24% SS 10% SS 6% OF 42% OF 30% P 5% for MLB, the years were 1953-2003. an obvious thing to keep in mind is that pitchers are also eligible for the MVP in the majors, while OOTP is batters exclusively. also, in OOTP, there were a number of times one player dominated for a significant stretch of time. example: juan ayo who won 6(!) consecutive MVB's as a SS. several years later, he won a 7th. that player alone accounted for 7 of 9 (78%) awards from a SS. i think there were several other position in which one player accounted for a good chunk of awards. The majors had no players with more than a 2 year MVP winning streak. eras of play is probably a factor. the ootp sim presumable was set on modern and not changed over the duration of the sim. in MLB, we can still see some important distinctions, like 1968, when hitting was as low as it had been in a long time, and introduction of the DH in 1973. that said, there was a noticeable difference between OOTP and MLB at the 1B position; actually, OOTP had twice as many firstbasemen winning the award in both leagues. the high percentage of SS in the OOTP AL was due to juan ayo's 7 awards. and amazingly, no catcher won an award in the 50 year OOTP history. most of the other positions are pretty close to each other. what does this mean? maybe the game overvalues 1B (like middle relievers)? or the player creation algorithms makes 1B a little too offensively skilled? this is based on only 1 50 yr sim, be interesting to see some others. and this is probably moot for you, unless yr going after a more realistic MLB environment. ive no problems with the number of times a player wins an award, but cant help wonder if theres a specific reason on why so many are won by 1B. v'

06-24-2004, 07:48 PM	#20
jrzalman Bat Boy Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 17	<i>holy crap... I've never had a player finish a career with numbers anywhere near this guy's: http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/ootp603/r1195.html</i> It's amazing to me that the guy played 24 seasons (all with the same team!), hit 601 HR and never once led the league in HR. Tough luck there considering he led the league in slugging four times and OPS seven times.