Top prospects waived--why?

[Biggie Fries]

Apologies in advance if this has been discussed elsewhere, but a quick search revealed no mention...

I have a solo league. Those of you who play solo leagues know that it is darned hard to keep your eye on everything that is going on around the league(s). But in August of my second year using OOTP6 (latest version), I have now seen two of the top ten prospects in the league waived, claimed, and essentially let go for nothing. Why would this be? I have tried to see if some important roster moves were involved, but neither team was in the pennant race; and it would seem to me that you would do almost anything to avoid losing these top players. I mean, I have taught myself not to fleece the AI for prospects in trade; but now the AI is all but giving these guys away! Anybody else see this, and/or have a rationale?

[twins15]

I am pretty sure it is a knon bug with Patch 6.02a.

[Hotwheelz]

Yes, it is a known issue with 6.02a. As far as I know, it happens mostly with created rosters.

[Biggie Fries]

Created rosters? Hmmm... I'm in the 14th year of a solo league of completely fictional (i.e., compuer-generated) players. League began under OOTP4.

Anyhow, it would be nice if this were fixed. I suppose I could play commissioner and somehow reassign these players; but, as I say, the worst part is that it is very hard to keep track of this as it happens. I don't check the waiver wire every day, and I don't recognize <i>all</i> of the players on it...

[Hotwheelz]

Originally posted by Biggie Fries
Created rosters? Hmmm... I'm in the 14th year of a solo league of completely fictional (i.e., compuer-generated) players. League began under OOTP4.

Anyhow, it would be nice if this were fixed. I suppose I could play commissioner and somehow reassign these players; but, as I say, the worst part is that it is very hard to keep track of this as it happens. I don't check the waiver wire every day, and I don't recognize <i>all</i> of the players on it...

Thats why I said mostly. Most of the complaints I have seen were from leagues with created rosters. I have seen complaints about historical leagues/fictional leagues, but not as much.

I have a fictional league in its 2nd season, and I dont have the problem.

[gmo]

I too have seen it in my fictional league, though not to the extent that some others have seen it. That said, it should not happen much, though there are reasons why it might occur every once in a while.

It is tough to tell, especially since I haven't looked too closely, but it doesn't seem there is much method to this issue, so I'm wondering how it will be fixed. Sometimes it seems like poor AI roster management (trying to move guy off 40-man when he sensibly should not have been on it at all), sometimes it seems, unless the scout just hates the guy, too inexplicable to even be considered bad AI (guy is just out there and not pulled back when claimed despite being recent #1 overall pick).

Like I said the issue is small in my league, so far, so I'm not much bothered, yet.

[Biggie Fries]

GMO--

Right. I mean, the first time I saw it, I thought, "Well, they had the guy on the 40 man roster for the wrong reason. They needed some space. They moved him off, and--hey!--maybe they know something about him that I don't."

The second time I decided this was not good.

As you say, it may be a tough problem to fix, especially if it is not happening to everyybody. I suppose you just say that if I guy is a recent first-round pick, you don't waive them, notwithstanding whatever logic argues for it.

[Malleus Dei]

Known bug. Hopefully it will be fixed soon.

[Hotwheelz]

Originally posted by Malleus Dei
Known bug. Hopefully it will be fixed soon.

Hopefully? I know its a known bug, but has anybody said they were working on a way to fix it?

[Ragnar]

I do not see it. Only guys I ever see waived are bums. If anyone on waivers is even remotely good they end up being pulled back. Go figure

[Hoiles]

I definitely see this. I think part of the problem is in the way option years are handled. I'm using CBL's rosters, and it seems that some of the guys who've never played in the majors are on their "last option year". Shouldn't they have two or three left? Not only that, but there are some (fictional) players who were drafted only one year before who are out of option years. And I don't think there's any way to edit it.

Though top prospects on waivers happens maybe two or three times per season. As long as you exercise restraint (I force myself to put anyone on the 25-man roster immediately), it shouldn't be a huge problem.

[Biggie Fries]

These guys are currently ranked (by "average scout") as #2 and #10 in best prospects. No way these guys should see waiver wire....

As I say, it can be tough in a solo league to keep tabs on this, so it may be more frequent that people think...

[ihatenames]

Originally posted by Hoiles
I definitely see this. I think part of the problem is in the way option years are handled. I'm using CBL's rosters, and it seems that some of the guys who've never played in the majors are on their "last option year". Shouldn't they have two or three left? Not only that, but there are some (fictional) players who were drafted only one year before who are out of option years. And I don't think there's any way to edit it.

Though top prospects on waivers happens maybe two or three times per season. As long as you exercise restraint (I force myself to put anyone on the 25-man roster immediately), it shouldn't be a huge problem.

i think option years include the number of years the player is on the 40 man roster, not just the 25 major roster spots.

[twins15]

Originally posted by Hotwheelz
Hopefully? I know its a known bug, but has anybody said they were working on a way to fix it?

I believe Markus said if he was right and did know where the bug was, it would be an easy fix.

[Dan Theman]

If they do in OOTP, they shouldn't. Hmmm - but I could always be wrong ... checking

[lynchjm24]

Originally posted by ihatenames
i think option years include the number of years the player is on the 40 man roster, not just the 25 major roster spots.

If you are on the 40 man roster and not on the 25 man roster you are on optional assignment.

[Dan Theman]

Interesting side notes (and reasons why unofficial summaries on websites are often incorrect) -

According the the CBA:

If a Player is optionally assigned for a total of less than 20 days in one championship season, such optional assignment(s) shall not count as an optional assignment in connection with the limitation upon optional assignments provided for in Major League Rule 11(c). (See Article XXI(B).)

For purposes of counting days on option, the date of the optional
assignment shall be counted and the date of recall shall not be counted, provided that the date of recall shall be counted if the recall takes place after the start of any Minor League game in which the Player was eligible to play.

According to Rule 11 of the Professional Baseball Agreement, which governs the transactions between the major and minor leagues, optional agreements "shall be permitted for not more than 3 seasons between Major League Clubs and National Association Clubs (minor league affiliates), and three seasons between National Association Clubs; provided that if a player is optioned for less than 30 days in one season, as determined by the date of the optional assignment and recall, respectively, that shall not count as an optional transfer in connection with the foregoing limitation." However, if a player has less than 5 seasons professional experience, he is eligible for an additional option. After he's used up his options, a player must clear general waivers to be designated. The number of options transfers if he is traded but does not reset.

Padre GM Kevin Towers explains it further: "A player has three options, and optioning him means taking him from your major-league roster down to your Triple-A roster, or Double-A or Single-A roster. You can send a guy up and down as many times as you want, and it only counts as one option in a year. After you've added a guy to the major-league roster, you've got three option years - if you option him down once in every year, then he becomes out of options. Once the player's out of options, it means to get him to the minor leagues you'll have to send him through outright waivers."

According to a couple of minor league ballclub websites (and, as it turns out, ESPN - I wonder who printed it first?):
"After a player has played three full professional seasons, he must be protected on the Major League Team's 40-man roster or he becomes available to be selected in the Rule 5 draft. If after the three years he is placed on the Major League Roster, the club then has options on that player. A player on the 40-man roster but not on the 25-man Major League Roster is on what is called optional assignment. A player on optional assignment has three option years, and can be sent up and down as many times as the club sees fit during those three seasons. A player who has been in the Major Leagues for parts of three different seasons is out of options, and must clear waivers in order to be sent down beginning with his fourth big league season. "

Are we confused yet?