Ethical or Fair?

Jonzard · 04-30-2004, 02:07 PM

If there is a player in your online league that does not like your organization, do you consider it fair to make a deal where another team where they sign him and trade him to you for some token payment.

So in the end the player signs with you for say, $13mil, and then you ship a decent AAA prospect or something to him.

Dan Theman · 04-30-2004, 02:11 PM

HAHAHAHAHA. Well, I've had a few moral dilemma's with that, myself. Then I remember when my ex-employer "offered" to transfer me to a location I pointedly did not apply for.

sixfour210 · 04-30-2004, 02:14 PM

I'd say that's fair. People get traded to teams they don't want to play for all the time. Althought in real life, the effects would be more severe because a the player's performance would probbaly drop.

Hammer755 · 04-30-2004, 02:16 PM

Many online leagues have rules that prevent this, an immediate trade at least, by stating that a newly-signed FA can't be traded until a certain date (the All-Star break often).

I have to wonder, though, what is the other owner's incentive do this if it were only for a token payment?

Jonzard · 04-30-2004, 02:22 PM

well its not token as in nothing.... its just something they get for basically just being a middleman for a player they dont want, need, or cant afford.

Something to keep them from trading him to ur opponent i suppose

Steve Kuffrey · 04-30-2004, 02:23 PM

I think it just depends on the league, I think that as long as it doesn't violate a league rule it's fine and fair.

Jonzard · 04-30-2004, 02:26 PM

So whats everyones thoughts on whether or not a rule like that should be in place?

KurtBevacqua · 04-30-2004, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jonzard
So whats everyones thoughts on whether or not a rule like that should be in place?

FOF has the rule built into the game. You can't trade FA's the same year you sign them. It's not a loophole I would ever exploit.

Tekneek · 04-30-2004, 02:47 PM

If you don't have a problem with playing in a totally unrealistic manner, then it is ok.

Intentionally trying to defeat/by-pass/double-cross the player AI within the game goes against the spirit of the game. Why even bother playing at that point?

Hammer755 · 04-30-2004, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tekneek
Intentionally trying to defeat/by-pass/double-cross the player AI within the game goes against the spirit of the game. Why even bother playing at that point?

Exactly. The entire point of the process is to open a loophole to get around the game's decision.

Jonzard · 04-30-2004, 03:24 PM

Very good points, our online league will probably enact a rule involving things like this now... thanks

sixfour210 · 04-30-2004, 03:37 PM

There's evidence of this in pro football right now. The Chargers took Manning when they knew he didn't want to play for them. They used this as leverage for a trade where they basically took every NY draft pick for the next 10 years.

What happened with Terrell Owens and the Ravens is another example.

Go Tribe · 04-30-2004, 03:40 PM

actually i'm pretty sure it's actually a rule in MLB that you can't do this - i think you have to hold onto a newly signed FA til at least june 1st

Go Tribe · 04-30-2004, 03:41 PM

and thus should be a rule in ootp

atarizx3 · 04-30-2004, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sixfour210
They used this as leverage for a trade where they basically took every NY draft pick for the next 10 years.

A little off-topic here, but......

Am I mistaken or did the Bolts only get Rivers, Giants 2004 3rd Rndr, Giants 2005 1st Rndr, and Giants 2005 5th Rndr?

Um. I don't think that's all their choices, but I could be wrong.

Hammer755 · 04-30-2004, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sixfour210
There's evidence of this in pro football right now. The Chargers took Manning when they knew he didn't want to play for them. They used this as leverage for a trade where they basically took every NY draft pick for the next 10 years.

What happened with Terrell Owens and the Ravens is another example.

How is this example anywhere near what the question asked? Neither of these guys were free agents. One was a draft pick and one was in the middle of an already existing contract.

A more relevant example would be the sign-and-trade deals in the NBA. But even that isn't really similar to the situation in question.

RonCo · 04-30-2004, 04:10 PM

Exactly. The Charges signed Manning then trade him to a place he didn't want to play in the first place. They instead knew they couldn't sing him, but took him expressly for the purpose of trading the right to negotiate with him. Totally different scenario.

This scenario actually can and does happen in the baseball minor league draft. Didn't JD Drew even sit out a year rather than play for the team that originally drafted him?

crackpott · 04-30-2004, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Go Tribe
actually i'm pretty sure it's actually a rule in MLB that you can't do this - i think you have to hold onto a newly signed FA til at least june 1st

Exactly. I don't know why all these people are referencing football when this is the obvious answer to the question. It can't be done in real life, and it's just a rule OOTP left out. Online leagues should add it.

timlowery · 04-30-2004, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sixfour210
There's evidence of this in pro football right now. The Chargers took Manning when they knew he didn't want to play for them. They used this as leverage for a trade where they basically took every NY draft pick for the next 10 years.

What happened with Terrell Owens and the Ravens is another example.

Where is the leverage in taking a guy who doesn't want to play for you? The Giants were stupid to give up so much. They should have low-balled, like the rest of the teams were doing...

sporr · 04-30-2004, 04:34 PM

I don't see any problem with trading for a player that didn't like your organization. Theoretically, you'll have to give up equal value to get him anyway, so it isn't like you're cheating anyone (other than maybe the player in question).

04-30-2004, 02:07 PM	#1
Jonzard Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,647	Ethical or Fair? If there is a player in your online league that does not like your organization, do you consider it fair to make a deal where another team where they sign him and trade him to you for some token payment. So in the end the player signs with you for say, $13mil, and then you ship a decent AAA prospect or something to him. __________________ For a scientist must indeed be freely imaginative and yet skeptical, creative and yet a critic. There is a sense in which he must be free, but another in which his thought must be very precisely regimented; there is poetry in science, but also a lot of bookkeeping. — Sir Peter B. Medawar FTB

04-30-2004, 02:14 PM	#3
sixfour210 All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,227	I'd say that's fair. People get traded to teams they don't want to play for all the time. Althought in real life, the effects would be more severe because a the player's performance would probbaly drop. __________________

04-30-2004, 02:22 PM	#5
Jonzard Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,647	well its not token as in nothing.... its just something they get for basically just being a middleman for a player they dont want, need, or cant afford. Something to keep them from trading him to ur opponent i suppose __________________ For a scientist must indeed be freely imaginative and yet skeptical, creative and yet a critic. There is a sense in which he must be free, but another in which his thought must be very precisely regimented; there is poetry in science, but also a lot of bookkeeping. — Sir Peter B. Medawar FTB

04-30-2004, 02:23 PM	#6
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,036	I think it just depends on the league, I think that as long as it doesn't violate a league rule it's fine and fair. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

04-30-2004, 02:26 PM	#7
Jonzard Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,647	So whats everyones thoughts on whether or not a rule like that should be in place? __________________ For a scientist must indeed be freely imaginative and yet skeptical, creative and yet a critic. There is a sense in which he must be free, but another in which his thought must be very precisely regimented; there is poetry in science, but also a lot of bookkeeping. — Sir Peter B. Medawar FTB

04-30-2004, 02:16 PM	#4
Hammer755 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,348	Many online leagues have rules that prevent this, an immediate trade at least, by stating that a newly-signed FA can't be traded until a certain date (the All-Star break often). I have to wonder, though, what is the other owner's incentive do this if it were only for a token payment?

04-30-2004, 02:47 PM	#9
Tekneek Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: GA, USA Posts: 455	If you don't have a problem with playing in a totally unrealistic manner, then it is ok. Intentionally trying to defeat/by-pass/double-cross the player AI within the game goes against the spirit of the game. Why even bother playing at that point?

04-30-2004, 03:24 PM	#11
Jonzard Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,647	Very good points, our online league will probably enact a rule involving things like this now... thanks __________________ For a scientist must indeed be freely imaginative and yet skeptical, creative and yet a critic. There is a sense in which he must be free, but another in which his thought must be very precisely regimented; there is poetry in science, but also a lot of bookkeeping. — Sir Peter B. Medawar FTB

04-30-2004, 03:37 PM	#12
sixfour210 All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,227	There's evidence of this in pro football right now. The Chargers took Manning when they knew he didn't want to play for them. They used this as leverage for a trade where they basically took every NY draft pick for the next 10 years. What happened with Terrell Owens and the Ravens is another example. __________________

04-30-2004, 03:40 PM	#13
Go Tribe All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,534 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	actually i'm pretty sure it's actually a rule in MLB that you can't do this - i think you have to hold onto a newly signed FA til at least june 1st

04-30-2004, 03:41 PM	#14
Go Tribe All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,534 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	and thus should be a rule in ootp

04-30-2004, 04:10 PM	#17
RonCo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 10,510	Exactly. The Charges signed Manning then trade him to a place he didn't want to play in the first place. They instead knew they couldn't sing him, but took him expressly for the purpose of trading the right to negotiate with him. Totally different scenario. This scenario actually can and does happen in the baseball minor league draft. Didn't JD Drew even sit out a year rather than play for the team that originally drafted him?

04-30-2004, 04:34 PM	#20
sporr Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Muscatine, IA Posts: 8,277	I don't see any problem with trading for a player that didn't like your organization. Theoretically, you'll have to give up equal value to get him anyway, so it isn't like you're cheating anyone (other than maybe the player in question).