Bill James Baseball Abstract Question (Baseball Book Thread)

I_Got_Wood_34 · 04-22-2004, 04:55 PM

After reading moneyball, ive gotten into baseball books lately. I was just wondering if these 'baseball abstracts by bill james' are still in print being sold....and if so which one is the best baseball abstract to buy (ive heard there's multiple versions)

Also, on the same note what are some of your fav. baseball or sport books in general......ive really taken a liking to reading...and love getting the extra insight you get from the books, that you can't get anywhere else.

in the last couple weeks ive read:

Jim Bouton (Ball Four)
Michael Lewis (Money Ball)

And have enjoyed each one immensely.

Any other recommendations...?

THanks

scprideandms · 04-23-2004, 11:56 AM

Theres a NEW one out with updates, great read!!!

donniebaseball23 · 04-23-2004, 02:10 PM

I highly recommend the following (Most are still in print):

The Glory of Their Times, Lawrence Ritter (The War and Peace of Baseball literature)

Men at Work, George Will (particularly if you liked MoneyBall)

Nine Innings, Daniel Okrent (A great look at the on & off-field moves that led to a great single-game matchup)

Peter Golenbock's Team Books: Wrigleyville (Cubs), Dynasty (Yankees), Spirit of St. Louis (Cardinals). There's also one each for the Red Sox and Dodgers, but I haven't gotten to them yet.

Summer of '41 & October 1964, David Halberstam

Where They Ain't, (I don't remember the author, but the book's about the 1890's Orioles and John McGraw, and their impact on the modern game)

Why Time Begins on Opening Day & How Life Imitates the World Series, Thomas Boswell. (Excellent essay collections about various parts of the game in both books; unsure if they're still in print.)

I_Got_Wood_34 · 04-24-2004, 05:24 AM

Thanks alot...i just added those to my Amazon wishlist, when i get done with stolen summer...i will check them out.

Thanks.

Mariner and Giants Fan · 04-29-2004, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by donniebaseball23
I highly recommend the following (Most are still in print):

The Glory of Their Times, Lawrence Ritter (The War and Peace of Baseball literature)

Men at Work, George Will (particularly if you liked MoneyBall)

Nine Innings, Daniel Okrent (A great look at the on & off-field moves that led to a great single-game matchup)

Peter Golenbock's Team Books: Wrigleyville (Cubs), Dynasty (Yankees), Spirit of St. Louis (Cardinals). There's also one each for the Red Sox and Dodgers, but I haven't gotten to them yet.

Summer of '41 & October 1964, David Halberstam

Where They Ain't, (I don't remember the author, but the book's about the 1890's Orioles and John McGraw, and their impact on the modern game)

Why Time Begins on Opening Day & How Life Imitates the World Series, Thomas Boswell. (Excellent essay collections about various parts of the game in both books; unsure if they're still in print.)

Uhh I believe that would be Summer of '49 and yes both books were very good. I am looking forward to reading "Long Ball" the story of the 1975 season and perhaps arguably the greatest World Series ever. Why this book will be extra special too me is because I was living out of the Country during that summer and fall (In Israel). I was getting the Sporting News but it was six weeks late! I am looking forward to reading the book this summer.

Gastric ReFlux · 04-29-2004, 11:31 AM

I'm reading Summer of '49 currently, and it's an excellent read.

ctorg · 04-30-2004, 08:34 AM

I've read a couple about independent leagues that I liked. One was Can't Find a Dry Ball, in which a reporter tags along with the independent Evansville Otters for a year. Interesting read. The other's name eludes me at the moment, but it was about the setting up of the Northern League. Both were good reads, I thought.

donniebaseball23 · 04-30-2004, 03:39 PM

Can anyone here recommend a good book on the history of the PCL? I've seen a few, but haven't read one yet.

Honolulu Blue · 05-10-2004, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by I_Got_Wood_34
After reading moneyball, ive gotten into baseball books lately. I was just wondering if these 'baseball abstracts by bill james' are still in print being sold....and if so which one is the best baseball abstract to buy (ive heard there's multiple versions)

The Baseball Abstracts from Bill James were released from 1982 through 1988. These were annual guides with new content every year (last year's stats, essays, player & team evaluations, etc.) They've all been out of print for a long time, and used copies cost a pretty penny. I recommend all of them, if you can find them. Your best bet is to try to find them at the local library.

The Historical Abstracts, also from James, are a different animal. The first one came out in '85, then the paperback version came out in '88 (with some updated material). The New Historical Abstract is a major revision of the Historical abstract, with lots of new material added and some deleted. It came out in 2000 (I think), and the paperback version - still in print - came out in '02 with a new essay and some error corrections. I recommend the latest version of the Historical Abstract if it doesn't bust your budget (or back - it's a pretty heavy book).

James has also done other books, most of which are out of print, but I'd recommend anyway. Let me know if you would like me to discuss them.

Hoiles · 05-12-2004, 10:09 AM

The latest historical abstract from James is, yes, still on shelves. What makes it an enjoyable, if lengthy, read, are not so much the statistical evaluations but more so the summaries of differing eras of baseball history and anecdotes about players from the past you`ve never heard of. There are hundreds of short bios, and as such they do tend to repeat themselves, but there are some gems every couple of pages or so (the descriptions of the goonish Orioles of the 1890`s are most entertaining).

swampdragon · 05-12-2004, 08:52 PM

I have all of James' books except one he did on managers, as well as the annual abstracts. He also did a player ratings book fir 1993. I recommend all of them. You can never have too many baseball books or Bill James books. I still go back and browse through both historical abstracts. It's kind of fun to look at the changes in his thought process and his methods.

attackemu · 05-12-2004, 08:54 PM

I would also recommend Baseball Prospectus 2004, which will give you some seriously in depth analysis of each team and 1600 players in this year's MLB as well as some articles on catcher's defensive performance and translation of stats from Mexico and Japan to the MLB.

raindelay7 · 05-13-2004, 12:04 AM

Good Enough to Dream - Roger Kahn fantastic book about minor league ball....Kahn was owner and president of single A utica blue sox and ,of course, author of Boys of Summer etc.

Raven · 05-13-2004, 12:48 PM

Fair Ball by Bob Costas was pretty good. It's basically his take on what should be done to make MLB more competitive.

I also read Boys of Summer, but wasn't too impressed. It's considered a classic, but wasn't too interesting to me. Mostly because I wasn't familiar with half the players.

Ekcut · 05-21-2004, 02:23 PM

My favorate non-statistical baseball books are Ron Luciano's...Fall of the Roman Umpire, Strike Two, and The Umpire Strikes Back.
Great baseball stories, by a colorful man with a great sense of humour.
A must for any Earl Weaver fan

Giants44 · 05-21-2004, 03:03 PM

I like all of these books, but a couple of fictional ones I have really enjoyed are:

I loved Sparky Lyles book - The Year I owned the Yankees. Ridiculous, stupid totally absurd, and funny as hell.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

The Curious Case of Sidd Finch is also a classic along the same lines
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

Former big leaguer Jim Bouton best known for Ball Four (also a must read) wrote Strike Zone - funny, intelligent, good fun

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

scprideandms · 05-21-2004, 03:29 PM

I jsut read strike zone and it was pretty good

04-22-2004, 04:55 PM	#1
I_Got_Wood_34 Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 188 Infractions: 0/1 (4)	Bill James Baseball Abstract Question (Baseball Book Thread) After reading moneyball, ive gotten into baseball books lately. I was just wondering if these 'baseball abstracts by bill james' are still in print being sold....and if so which one is the best baseball abstract to buy (ive heard there's multiple versions) Also, on the same note what are some of your fav. baseball or sport books in general......ive really taken a liking to reading...and love getting the extra insight you get from the books, that you can't get anywhere else. in the last couple weeks ive read: Jim Bouton (Ball Four) Michael Lewis (Money Ball) And have enjoyed each one immensely. Any other recommendations...? THanks

04-23-2004, 11:56 AM	#2
scprideandms All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: N KY, 25 miles from Cincy Posts: 1,314	Theres a NEW one out with updates, great read!!! __________________ Change your playground + change your playfriends + change your playtoys + change your playtime = Change your life. If you keep on doing what you've always done you'll keep on gitting what you've always gotten.

04-30-2004, 08:34 AM	#7
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	I've read a couple about independent leagues that I liked. One was Can't Find a Dry Ball, in which a reporter tags along with the independent Evansville Otters for a year. Interesting read. The other's name eludes me at the moment, but it was about the setting up of the Northern League. Both were good reads, I thought. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

05-12-2004, 08:54 PM	#12
attackemu All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 972	I would also recommend Baseball Prospectus 2004, which will give you some seriously in depth analysis of each team and 1600 players in this year's MLB as well as some articles on catcher's defensive performance and translation of stats from Mexico and Japan to the MLB. __________________ "Disguised in EMU's Blunt and sometimes hostile post is actually very sound advice. I think you would be wise to consider what he said." -ihatenames

05-21-2004, 02:23 PM	#15
Ekcut Minors (Double A) Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 110	My favorate non-statistical baseball books are Ron Luciano's...Fall of the Roman Umpire, Strike Two, and The Umpire Strikes Back. Great baseball stories, by a colorful man with a great sense of humour. A must for any Earl Weaver fan __________________ Everyday I break my own personal record for consecutive days without dying.

04-23-2004, 02:10 PM	#3
donniebaseball23 Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 3	I highly recommend the following (Most are still in print): The Glory of Their Times, Lawrence Ritter (The War and Peace of Baseball literature) Men at Work, George Will (particularly if you liked MoneyBall) Nine Innings, Daniel Okrent (A great look at the on & off-field moves that led to a great single-game matchup) Peter Golenbock's Team Books: Wrigleyville (Cubs), Dynasty (Yankees), Spirit of St. Louis (Cardinals). There's also one each for the Red Sox and Dodgers, but I haven't gotten to them yet. Summer of '41 & October 1964, David Halberstam Where They Ain't, (I don't remember the author, but the book's about the 1890's Orioles and John McGraw, and their impact on the modern game) Why Time Begins on Opening Day & How Life Imitates the World Series, Thomas Boswell. (Excellent essay collections about various parts of the game in both books; unsure if they're still in print.)

04-24-2004, 05:24 AM	#4
I_Got_Wood_34 Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 188 Infractions: 0/1 (4)	Thanks alot...i just added those to my Amazon wishlist, when i get done with stolen summer...i will check them out. Thanks.

04-29-2004, 11:31 AM	#6
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	I'm reading Summer of '49 currently, and it's an excellent read.

04-30-2004, 03:39 PM	#8
donniebaseball23 Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 3	Can anyone here recommend a good book on the history of the PCL? I've seen a few, but haven't read one yet.

05-12-2004, 10:09 AM	#10
Hoiles All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 574	The latest historical abstract from James is, yes, still on shelves. What makes it an enjoyable, if lengthy, read, are not so much the statistical evaluations but more so the summaries of differing eras of baseball history and anecdotes about players from the past you`ve never heard of. There are hundreds of short bios, and as such they do tend to repeat themselves, but there are some gems every couple of pages or so (the descriptions of the goonish Orioles of the 1890`s are most entertaining).

05-12-2004, 08:52 PM	#11
swampdragon Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Lonely Mountain Posts: 2,506	I have all of James' books except one he did on managers, as well as the annual abstracts. He also did a player ratings book fir 1993. I recommend all of them. You can never have too many baseball books or Bill James books. I still go back and browse through both historical abstracts. It's kind of fun to look at the changes in his thought process and his methods.

05-13-2004, 12:04 AM	#13
raindelay7 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 34	Good Enough to Dream - Roger Kahn fantastic book about minor league ball....Kahn was owner and president of single A utica blue sox and ,of course, author of Boys of Summer etc.

05-13-2004, 12:48 PM	#14
Raven Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 94	Fair Ball by Bob Costas was pretty good. It's basically his take on what should be done to make MLB more competitive. I also read Boys of Summer, but wasn't too impressed. It's considered a classic, but wasn't too interesting to me. Mostly because I wasn't familiar with half the players.

05-21-2004, 03:03 PM	#16
Giants44 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 2,408	I like all of these books, but a couple of fictional ones I have really enjoyed are: I loved Sparky Lyles book - The Year I owned the Yankees. Ridiculous, stupid totally absurd, and funny as hell. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846 The Curious Case of Sidd Finch is also a classic along the same lines http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books Former big leaguer Jim Bouton best known for Ball Four (also a must read) wrote Strike Zone - funny, intelligent, good fun http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books __________________ "In a text sim - Immersion is everything" -Me "Judge a man not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character" -Martin Luther King "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." -Einstein "The man who views the world at 50 the same as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life." -Muhammad Ali "Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything." -Toby Harrah

05-21-2004, 03:29 PM	#17
scprideandms All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: N KY, 25 miles from Cincy Posts: 1,314	I jsut read strike zone and it was pretty good __________________ Change your playground + change your playfriends + change your playtoys + change your playtime = Change your life. If you keep on doing what you've always done you'll keep on gitting what you've always gotten.