CPU Lineup Logic

kidk34 · 01-27-2002, 12:22 PM

I hope v4 handles computer lineups better than v3. I am in year 2007. Chipper Jones is still with the Braves and has been batting 8th for about 3 seasons. He still hits about 290 with decent power. Furcal is batting 5th.

Jason Kendall is a member of the Astros. They have hit him 8th for the last couple of seasons. He is currently hitting 330 with solid power/speed stats.

I'm sure 90% of the lineup are fine. But these are just examples of two lineups that always bother me.

Chappy · 01-28-2002, 06:13 AM

I've also noticed that the computer doesn't set the most logical lineups.

The biggest complaint I have is with the leadoff position. It seems to put .220 hitters there a lot. And guys who hit .320 and have a lot of speed but absolutely no power wind up in the clean-up spot too.

I think this is one of the reasons that HR leaders are always leading the lead in runs scored while Rickey Henderson (in his prime) type players never seem to go over 100.

markeschen · 01-28-2002, 03:08 PM

OOTP will almost always put the fastest guy on the team in the lead-off spot, no mater how badly the guy hits. I wouldn't be surprisde if that guy hitting .220 in the lead off spot had a A or B steal rating.

kidk34 · 01-28-2002, 04:26 PM

No doubt this does happen often...however it doesn't bother me near as much as batting a Furcal type guy cleanup or a Chipper Jones 8th. Some teams (Cubs are notorious) often times don't have an ideal OBP guy at the top of the lineup. Eric Young hit for a decent average but never walked. He lead off strictly for his speed.

mtw · 01-28-2002, 10:07 PM

[quote]Originally posted by markeschen:
<strong>OOTP will almost always put the fastest guy on the team in the lead-off spot, no mater how badly the guy hits. I wouldn't be surprisde if that guy hitting .220 in the lead off spot had a A or B steal rating.</strong><hr></blockquote>

The computer AI does not handle the leadoff position well at all, but does make a reasonable lineup otherwise. If the expected leadoff hitter is a good hitter with fair to average power (6 or better average), chances are the AI will bat him in the middle of the order despite superior baserunning ability (in the # 4 or 5 position most often in my leagues--Rickey is the most notable example)--unless there are several similarly good hitters in the lineup. This does make some sense, but obviously is not ideal. Also, there is not a lot of speed on the team, then it is true that the fastest guy (often C speed) will bat first if there are a lot of hitters of similar ability.

I guess this isn't a clarification as much as a specific logic pattern I've noticed. Personally, I would like to be able to designate batting order positions in the same way as players have fielding positions.

hellfrozeover · 01-29-2002, 03:29 PM

Another thing I don't like seeing is Brian Giles leading off. A guy with that kind of power and average is a number 3 or cleanup type hitter.

In certain cases, I don't mind seeing fast guys batting in the middle of the lineup, but it depends. Rafael Furcal should never bat anything other than 1 or 2, but a guy with a lot of power and speed like Andruw Jones, a younger Barry Bonds, younger Sosa, etc. should hit in the middle of the lineup.

kidk34 · 01-30-2002, 04:12 AM

I agree totally with the last post. Situations like Giles leading off are more what I am talking about. Obviously if you have a guy with speed/power, he is definitely qualified to bat in the middle of the order. The problems I am referring to are very obvious.

Chappy · 01-30-2002, 05:05 AM

[quote] Personally, I would like to be able to designate batting order positions in the same way as players have fielding positions. <hr></blockquote>

This could be tricky since lineups change for L/R and to rest players.

Perhaps it would work if there was a 'recommended lineup spot' button which allowed you to toggle between 'Top', 'Middle', and 'End'.

That would at least take care of the Giles leading off, Furcal #5, Jones #8 problem.

[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: Chappy ]</p>

hellfrozeover · 01-30-2002, 05:56 PM

That's a great idea, something along those lines would be really nice, and it wouldn't be very complicated. Of course, it would be nice to allow it to be turned off in case it didn't always work the way you wanted it to. But with these developers and testers, I have all the confidence in the world that everything in v4 will be next to flawless.

01-27-2002, 12:22 PM	#1
kidk34 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Springfield, Illinois Posts: 88	CPU Lineup Logic I hope v4 handles computer lineups better than v3. I am in year 2007. Chipper Jones is still with the Braves and has been batting 8th for about 3 seasons. He still hits about 290 with decent power. Furcal is batting 5th. Jason Kendall is a member of the Astros. They have hit him 8th for the last couple of seasons. He is currently hitting 330 with solid power/speed stats. I'm sure 90% of the lineup are fine. But these are just examples of two lineups that always bother me.

01-28-2002, 06:13 AM	#2
Chappy Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 2,721	I've also noticed that the computer doesn't set the most logical lineups. The biggest complaint I have is with the leadoff position. It seems to put .220 hitters there a lot. And guys who hit .320 and have a lot of speed but absolutely no power wind up in the clean-up spot too. I think this is one of the reasons that HR leaders are always leading the lead in runs scored while Rickey Henderson (in his prime) type players never seem to go over 100. __________________ NPBL - Pennsylvania Freedom AFBL - North Carolina Aviators MLB-Pro - Kansas City Royals

01-28-2002, 03:08 PM	#3
markeschen Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: San Bruno, CA Posts: 53	OOTP will almost always put the fastest guy on the team in the lead-off spot, no mater how badly the guy hits. I wouldn't be surprisde if that guy hitting .220 in the lead off spot had a A or B steal rating. __________________ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Here's to the Giants . . . . . serving heaps of frustration since 1954 . . . .

01-29-2002, 03:29 PM	#6
hellfrozeover All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,130	Another thing I don't like seeing is Brian Giles leading off. A guy with that kind of power and average is a number 3 or cleanup type hitter. In certain cases, I don't mind seeing fast guys batting in the middle of the lineup, but it depends. Rafael Furcal should never bat anything other than 1 or 2, but a guy with a lot of power and speed like Andruw Jones, a younger Barry Bonds, younger Sosa, etc. should hit in the middle of the lineup. __________________ FBA Chicago Syndicate Former Owner: WBL Minnesota Twins 2004 - 2007 AL Central Division Champs OOL Chicago Whales 2006, 2009 UL East Champs; 2006, 2009 United League Champs IBA Lehigh Valley Diamonds 2006 Governor's Cup Champions VSLB New York Yankees 2001, 2002 AL East Division Champs ILBL Commissioner/Chicago Cubs 2002 NL Central Division Champs; 2002 National League Champs ASBL New York Yankees 2006 AL East Division Champs

01-30-2002, 05:56 PM	#9
hellfrozeover All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,130	That's a great idea, something along those lines would be really nice, and it wouldn't be very complicated. Of course, it would be nice to allow it to be turned off in case it didn't always work the way you wanted it to. But with these developers and testers, I have all the confidence in the world that everything in v4 will be next to flawless. __________________ FBA Chicago Syndicate Former Owner: WBL Minnesota Twins 2004 - 2007 AL Central Division Champs OOL Chicago Whales 2006, 2009 UL East Champs; 2006, 2009 United League Champs IBA Lehigh Valley Diamonds 2006 Governor's Cup Champions VSLB New York Yankees 2001, 2002 AL East Division Champs ILBL Commissioner/Chicago Cubs 2002 NL Central Division Champs; 2002 National League Champs ASBL New York Yankees 2006 AL East Division Champs

01-28-2002, 04:26 PM	#4
kidk34 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Springfield, Illinois Posts: 88	No doubt this does happen often...however it doesn't bother me near as much as batting a Furcal type guy cleanup or a Chipper Jones 8th. Some teams (Cubs are notorious) often times don't have an ideal OBP guy at the top of the lineup. Eric Young hit for a decent average but never walked. He lead off strictly for his speed.

01-28-2002, 10:07 PM	#5
mtw All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 653	[quote]Originally posted by markeschen: <strong>OOTP will almost always put the fastest guy on the team in the lead-off spot, no mater how badly the guy hits. I wouldn't be surprisde if that guy hitting .220 in the lead off spot had a A or B steal rating.</strong><hr></blockquote> The computer AI does not handle the leadoff position well at all, but does make a reasonable lineup otherwise. If the expected leadoff hitter is a good hitter with fair to average power (6 or better average), chances are the AI will bat him in the middle of the order despite superior baserunning ability (in the # 4 or 5 position most often in my leagues--Rickey is the most notable example)--unless there are several similarly good hitters in the lineup. This does make some sense, but obviously is not ideal. Also, there is not a lot of speed on the team, then it is true that the fastest guy (often C speed) will bat first if there are a lot of hitters of similar ability. I guess this isn't a clarification as much as a specific logic pattern I've noticed. Personally, I would like to be able to designate batting order positions in the same way as players have fielding positions. __________________ Over-Zealous Apologist

01-30-2002, 04:12 AM	#7
kidk34 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Springfield, Illinois Posts: 88	I agree totally with the last post. Situations like Giles leading off are more what I am talking about. Obviously if you have a guy with speed/power, he is definitely qualified to bat in the middle of the order. The problems I am referring to are very obvious.

01-30-2002, 05:05 AM	#8
Chappy Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 2,721	[quote] Personally, I would like to be able to designate batting order positions in the same way as players have fielding positions. <hr></blockquote> This could be tricky since lineups change for L/R and to rest players. Perhaps it would work if there was a 'recommended lineup spot' button which allowed you to toggle between 'Top', 'Middle', and 'End'. That would at least take care of the Giles leading off, Furcal #5, Jones #8 problem. [ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: Chappy ]</p> __________________ NPBL - Pennsylvania Freedom AFBL - North Carolina Aviators MLB-Pro - Kansas City Royals