Off-season Free Agent negotiations

TommyBoy · 12-20-2001, 09:22 AM

During the off-season I only have only shot to sign a big-time free agent. If other offers are higher, then they win- which I have no problem with. But, what about having negotiations where you are told, "Player A has been offered $$$$ for X years. Do you want to beat that?" Kinda like an auction.

Bottom line is I'd like more that one chance to sign a player. Is that how it's done in the 'real' world or is the present system more realistic?

Scott Vibert · 12-20-2001, 09:40 AM

The free agency question was debated on the previous forum, I argued for a system more similar to what Front Office Football 2k1 uses.

The following is my post from the old board.

[quote]Originally Posted on the Old Board:
<strong> I support your point in that the good players shouldn't all be gone in Round 1... that I agree on. I just don't like the idea of clicking on a player and then resolving whether or not you sign him, I like having some of the other backup players potentially being gone if I fail to sign the star I wanted. Other teams who wanted Neagle as a fall back when they failed to sign Hampton, didn't have that option because he was snapped up at about the same time (incidently by the same team).

I knew you couldn't make the offer to two players at the same time, because the money comes out when you make the offer (as it should). I still think that having to choose who out of all free agents available during a round you wish to sign knowing you run the risk of your fall back options being signed is a better way to go, rather than clicking on a player and deciding if you want to go after him with no worry that you might not get anyone. Furthermore I think if you make an offer to someone in that format you should be obligated to sign him... you submitted a contract offer the second the guy accepts it your bound by it. (The auction image is still there) There has to be more risk in free agency than knowing if you fail to land the superstar you can get the second guy, there should always be the chance you'll get nothing (like the Mets who lost out on their outfield targets while trying to pursue Hampton).

Just my opinion, here is how I'd construct free agency (I'd probably use 10 rounds to do it or so... that seems to be ok):

Round 1 teams submit offers - no player will sign the offer but indicates to the teams if their offer is within the range he will consider (minimum value to player of what he feels he is worth, after about half the rounds this value goes down and after three quarters of the rounds it goes down again). (This could represent the first week after the World Series no free agents get signed (technically formal offers from other teams aren't suppose to occur now, but we can overlook that I think

)

Round 2 teams have the chance to revise offers and/or bail out and make an offer to another player. At the end of Round 2 some players may occaisonally sign, but only those players who are very loyal and only if they are resigning with their former teams. (Players judge the value of the offers in using value of deal, play for winner, and loyalty ratings, and maybe some other hidden ratings) (This could represent the second week after the World Series where only the re-signing teams have the ability to re-sign their own free agents)

Round 3 Now signing can begin in earnest, however players should in general take a week to consider offers unless the offer is much larger than what they would have accepted.

After half the rounds are completed the players should sign much quicker once their demands (a little bit lower than the initial demands were) are met.

After three quarters of the rounds the demands should drop further and the player would sign with who ever meets their price.

For the final round the player would sign with who ever the highest bid that is with the players bare minimum signing range is, but only for a 1 round deal, perhaps the player would say "I want to prove I'm worth more than this."

That's just my vision for how I would design the free agency routines and subroutines if I were the game designer.

BTW - without financials on there is no free agency, the reserve clause is back in effect (you retain the rights to your players as long as you like) and the only ways to improve your team is through the draft and trading (much harder), the contract numbers are there and would count if you turned on finances, but otherwise they play no impact.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

The entire thread can be found <a href="http://www.forumplanet.com/sportplanet/ootp3/topic.asp?fid=3661&tid=449116" target="_blank">here</a>: <a href="http://www.forumplanet.com/sportplanet/ootp3/topic.asp?fid=3661&tid=449116" target="_blank">http://www.forumplanet.com/sportplanet/ootp3/topic.asp?fid=3661&tid=449116</a>

hellfrozeover · 12-20-2001, 12:51 PM

As I recall, we all agreed that changes needed to be made but we could never agree on one particular system. I personally wouldn't mind it as more of an auction. But then again I don't remember everything that was mentioned on the previous forum.

J P Falcon · 12-21-2001, 06:17 AM

I was the main debator with Scott with this issue...I did not like the idea of a teams limited funds being tied up with simply making offers then losing out on the ability to pick up other premium free agents if you were not able to land the player(s) you originally bid on. The bottom line is that there needed to be more premium free agents available in later rounds. As it stands now, most are wiped off the board in the first round. The free agency rounds are too similar in design to the amateur draft rounds. Perhaps this will be addressed in OOTP4

tarheel-panther · 12-21-2001, 10:32 AM

I have a suggestion for this that I believe that I mentioned about this time last year. I would love to see a calendar system used, similar to the season calendar. This is my idea, after the season ends you use a normal calendar for the off season. Things like last day to agree to arbitration, the winter meetings, and other key dates would be included.

The first couple of weeks after the season players will announce their retirement and teams can contact free agents and let them know of their interest. Players who want to stay with their current team will resign with them. As the winter meetings approached the free agents would begin to sign, on a day by day basis. Each team could put in a bid each day and when things slowed down for a player for a couple of days he could then sign with the team of his choice. This would also allow teams to make trades and free up more money to sign players that they want, similar to what the Met's have done to try to sign Gonzalez. I realize that this would make the off season last longer, but it would also be a better way to make the game more realistic.

I would love to share more thoughts and details with people to see how they feel. I think this idea allows for a lot more things to be added to the game as well. Things such as salary arbitration, rule V draft, and the addition of other off season issues.

What do you think?

rwmorey · 12-21-2001, 10:57 AM

Tarheel -- I really like you idea. Their of course would be an option to "skip to .." so that you didn't need to go through the calendar day by day if you had signed the player you wanted. Or the time could go until the FA signed with you or got another offer at which point you could re-enter the offer.

Rich

J P Falcon · 12-21-2001, 11:14 AM

The calendar system is relied heavily upon in soccer sims and it works very well. I think it could easily be adapted in some future version of OOTP. You then open the door to actually playing spring training games where you can perhaps fine tune a players' skills with greater detail.

tarheel-panther · 12-22-2001, 02:43 PM

Steve,

I think that we talked about the calendar system at some point a year ago or so. Is this a possibility for the future. I really think that it could add to the depth of the game and possibly give you and Markus more features to add in the future because of the flexibility that would be created. Just think that this would be a good option and something that might not be that difficult to do. What do you think?

12-20-2001, 09:22 AM	#1
TommyBoy Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Purvis, Mississippi Posts: 137	Off-season Free Agent negotiations During the off-season I only have only shot to sign a big-time free agent. If other offers are higher, then they win- which I have no problem with. But, what about having negotiations where you are told, "Player A has been offered $$$$ for X years. Do you want to beat that?" Kinda like an auction. Bottom line is I'd like more that one chance to sign a player. Is that how it's done in the 'real' world or is the present system more realistic?

12-20-2001, 12:51 PM	#3
hellfrozeover All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,130	As I recall, we all agreed that changes needed to be made but we could never agree on one particular system. I personally wouldn't mind it as more of an auction. But then again I don't remember everything that was mentioned on the previous forum. __________________ FBA Chicago Syndicate Former Owner: WBL Minnesota Twins 2004 - 2007 AL Central Division Champs OOL Chicago Whales 2006, 2009 UL East Champs; 2006, 2009 United League Champs IBA Lehigh Valley Diamonds 2006 Governor's Cup Champions VSLB New York Yankees 2001, 2002 AL East Division Champs ILBL Commissioner/Chicago Cubs 2002 NL Central Division Champs; 2002 National League Champs ASBL New York Yankees 2006 AL East Division Champs

12-20-2001, 09:40 AM	#2
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,257	The free agency question was debated on the previous forum, I argued for a system more similar to what Front Office Football 2k1 uses. The following is my post from the old board. [quote]Originally Posted on the Old Board: <strong> I support your point in that the good players shouldn't all be gone in Round 1... that I agree on. I just don't like the idea of clicking on a player and then resolving whether or not you sign him, I like having some of the other backup players potentially being gone if I fail to sign the star I wanted. Other teams who wanted Neagle as a fall back when they failed to sign Hampton, didn't have that option because he was snapped up at about the same time (incidently by the same team). I knew you couldn't make the offer to two players at the same time, because the money comes out when you make the offer (as it should). I still think that having to choose who out of all free agents available during a round you wish to sign knowing you run the risk of your fall back options being signed is a better way to go, rather than clicking on a player and deciding if you want to go after him with no worry that you might not get anyone. Furthermore I think if you make an offer to someone in that format you should be obligated to sign him... you submitted a contract offer the second the guy accepts it your bound by it. (The auction image is still there) There has to be more risk in free agency than knowing if you fail to land the superstar you can get the second guy, there should always be the chance you'll get nothing (like the Mets who lost out on their outfield targets while trying to pursue Hampton). Just my opinion, here is how I'd construct free agency (I'd probably use 10 rounds to do it or so... that seems to be ok): Round 1 teams submit offers - no player will sign the offer but indicates to the teams if their offer is within the range he will consider (minimum value to player of what he feels he is worth, after about half the rounds this value goes down and after three quarters of the rounds it goes down again). (This could represent the first week after the World Series no free agents get signed (technically formal offers from other teams aren't suppose to occur now, but we can overlook that I think ) Round 2 teams have the chance to revise offers and/or bail out and make an offer to another player. At the end of Round 2 some players may occaisonally sign, but only those players who are very loyal and only if they are resigning with their former teams. (Players judge the value of the offers in using value of deal, play for winner, and loyalty ratings, and maybe some other hidden ratings) (This could represent the second week after the World Series where only the re-signing teams have the ability to re-sign their own free agents) Round 3 Now signing can begin in earnest, however players should in general take a week to consider offers unless the offer is much larger than what they would have accepted. After half the rounds are completed the players should sign much quicker once their demands (a little bit lower than the initial demands were) are met. After three quarters of the rounds the demands should drop further and the player would sign with who ever meets their price. For the final round the player would sign with who ever the highest bid that is with the players bare minimum signing range is, but only for a 1 round deal, perhaps the player would say "I want to prove I'm worth more than this." That's just my vision for how I would design the free agency routines and subroutines if I were the game designer. BTW - without financials on there is no free agency, the reserve clause is back in effect (you retain the rights to your players as long as you like) and the only ways to improve your team is through the draft and trading (much harder), the contract numbers are there and would count if you turned on finances, but otherwise they play no impact. </strong><hr></blockquote> The entire thread can be found <a href="http://www.forumplanet.com/sportplanet/ootp3/topic.asp?fid=3661&tid=449116" target="_blank">here</a>: <a href="http://www.forumplanet.com/sportplanet/ootp3/topic.asp?fid=3661&tid=449116" target="_blank">http://www.forumplanet.com/sportplanet/ootp3/topic.asp?fid=3661&tid=449116</a>

12-21-2001, 06:17 AM	#4
J P Falcon Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NJ Posts: 406	I was the main debator with Scott with this issue...I did not like the idea of a teams limited funds being tied up with simply making offers then losing out on the ability to pick up other premium free agents if you were not able to land the player(s) you originally bid on. The bottom line is that there needed to be more premium free agents available in later rounds. As it stands now, most are wiped off the board in the first round. The free agency rounds are too similar in design to the amateur draft rounds. Perhaps this will be addressed in OOTP4

12-21-2001, 10:32 AM	#5
tarheel-panther Bat Boy Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 14	I have a suggestion for this that I believe that I mentioned about this time last year. I would love to see a calendar system used, similar to the season calendar. This is my idea, after the season ends you use a normal calendar for the off season. Things like last day to agree to arbitration, the winter meetings, and other key dates would be included. The first couple of weeks after the season players will announce their retirement and teams can contact free agents and let them know of their interest. Players who want to stay with their current team will resign with them. As the winter meetings approached the free agents would begin to sign, on a day by day basis. Each team could put in a bid each day and when things slowed down for a player for a couple of days he could then sign with the team of his choice. This would also allow teams to make trades and free up more money to sign players that they want, similar to what the Met's have done to try to sign Gonzalez. I realize that this would make the off season last longer, but it would also be a better way to make the game more realistic. I would love to share more thoughts and details with people to see how they feel. I think this idea allows for a lot more things to be added to the game as well. Things such as salary arbitration, rule V draft, and the addition of other off season issues. What do you think?

12-21-2001, 10:57 AM	#6
rwmorey Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 177	Tarheel -- I really like you idea. Their of course would be an option to "skip to .." so that you didn't need to go through the calendar day by day if you had signed the player you wanted. Or the time could go until the FA signed with you or got another offer at which point you could re-enter the offer. Rich

12-21-2001, 11:14 AM	#7
J P Falcon Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NJ Posts: 406	The calendar system is relied heavily upon in soccer sims and it works very well. I think it could easily be adapted in some future version of OOTP. You then open the door to actually playing spring training games where you can perhaps fine tune a players' skills with greater detail.

12-22-2001, 02:43 PM	#8
tarheel-panther Bat Boy Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 14	Steve, I think that we talked about the calendar system at some point a year ago or so. Is this a possibility for the future. I really think that it could add to the depth of the game and possibly give you and Markus more features to add in the future because of the flexibility that would be created. Just think that this would be a good option and something that might not be that difficult to do. What do you think?