The AAA Minor League Player Database - your help needed!

Le Grande Orange · 02-26-2004, 01:26 AM

What is this project? Well, it's an attempt to create a full database of player statistics for every season of the three AAA minor leagues, the American Association, the International League, and the Pacific Coast League. If you think "Lahman Database for AAA players" you'd pretty much be on the right path.

What could such a thing be used for? Well, for example, one could recreate one of these leagues using the real players, much as Henry is doing his PCL replay. Or, if one was running a historical league, not only could you have the real major league players, but you could even put into the game the real AAA minor league players for a given year. You could choose when to bring them up early, or let other promising minor players get a chance at the majors that they didn't get in reality. These are just two possibilities; there are probably many more possible applications.

The first goal is to accumulate the statistics and get it into digital format. Thanks to the Paper of Record web site, I've already gathered the raw stats in The Sporting News issues for a good number of the AAA seasons already. I have 1919-42, 1946-48, and most years between 1956-75.

So, how can you help?

1) Express some interest in this idea! Let me know if this is something that intrigues you.

2) You can help in getting the data digitized. If you're interested in helping out, what I can do is e-mail you the PDF file(s) for a given league and year which contain the stats, and a blank Excel file in which to enter the stats. There are a lot of players and seasons to process, so just helping out with this would be great.

3) If you have access to or can find the minor league player stats for seasons other than what I've listed, or have more in-depth stats to add for the post-1948 period, that too would be a big help. There are plenty of seasons with only minimal data, as well as seasons I haven't yet gathered yet.

If you'd like to help, then just respond in the thread and we'll take it from there. You needn't read any further, but if you wish too that's fine by me.

***

By the way, the TSN pages in the earlier years list a fair number of stats. Usually, for batting any players with 10 or more games was listed, and for pitchers it was those with 45 or more innings pitched. The result is that a good many players are included. Unfortunately, after WWII the players listed drop to only the qualifiers, meaning far fewer AAA players' stats are printed. In later years more players became listed again, but the stats covered were reduced to a very basic set.

For the 1919-42 years, the batting stats covered (leaving aside calculated stats, such as batting average or total bases) included: G, AB, R, H, 2B, 3B, HR, RBI, SH, and SB. Other areas included but not consistently: BB, SO, and HBP. Pitching stats covered were: G, W, L, IP, H, R, BB, and SO. Usually included were: AB, ER, and CG. Included from time to time SH, HBP, WP, and SHO were mentioned. (For those years where ER weren't listed, the player's final ERA was listed, so it's possible to work backwards from the ERA and IP to arrive at a very close estimate of the ER given up.)

Fielding stats were consistent; these were broken down by position (except for outfielders, who were listed as a combined group). The areas covered were: G, PO, A, E.

All of this means that the players will be covered in fairly good detail. Unfortunately, after the mid-1960's the stats covered are only the most basic, and were usually: G, AB, R, H, HR, and RBI for batters, and G, W, L, IP, BB, SO, SV for pitchers. Certainly, less detail, but hopefully still useful.

Anyway, I've just about got the Excel template file set up. All someone would have to do is just enter in the stats into the appropriate fields. For fun, however, I thought I'd include a number of the calculated stats, or at least those that can be derived from the statistical areas covered.

Right now, I'm thinking I'd include for batters, of course, TB and BA, as well as OBP, SLG, OPS, ISO, SA, HR%, SO%, K/BB, and RC (the most basic version of the formula; the latter versions require stat areas not included in the TSN pages). For pitchers, I'm including ERA (naturally), OBA, H/9, BB/9, K/9, K/BB, and WHIP.

If you have any other calculated stats that could be included, or instead of ones I've mentioned, just post them up. Just keep in mind they do need to be derived from the statistical categories that were normally included.

The final area where things might be problematic are the more biographical details, such as birthdate, height, weight, or batting and throwing hand. For AAA minor players who ended up in the majors, the info can be easily found, but for those who stayed only in the minors it might be harder to track down. TSN did, in some years at least, print the rosters of some of the minor league teams for the upcoming season, and did include many of the aforementioned areas. So these details can be found in at least some degree. I still have to try and search for these.

Whew, that's it then. I hope a few folks will be interested and might be willing to do some typing up of stats. Your comments and suggestions are welcomed.

dougaiton · 02-26-2004, 05:16 AM

I'd just like to say that this sounds like the most fantastic project in the history of time.

theREDdoor28 · 02-26-2004, 11:00 AM

http://www.sports-wired.com/players/ is a good place for minor league stats for minor leaguers, and even major leaguers.

ctorg · 02-26-2004, 12:02 PM

This is a great idea, LGO, something I've thought of attempting in the past before I did my fictional player database. I'm not sure where you'll find all that data, but if you can, it would be great. I would love to help out with the data, but my pot is full (or, actually, overflowing) at the moment. Perhaps I can help in the future.

Le Grande Orange · 02-26-2004, 08:39 PM

Doug, check your PM box.

Ctorg, I understand about the pot being full - I'm really at that point myself, but I thought at least the ball could get rolling on this. When it'll be finished is anyone's guess... a long time would seem a reasonable estimate. I still have to get in my quota of schedule work done during this too.

RedDoor, thanks for that link, it's quite good. A lot of helpful stuff there. If you find any other web sites please let me know!

The Professor · 02-26-2004, 10:23 PM

Fantastic!! I've wanted to do this project for more than a year now, but - unfortunately - have a lot on the table at the moment....

Good luck LGO!!

ihatenames · 02-26-2004, 10:34 PM

i have limited time, but i'd be willing to help some with this project.

jwisenberg · 02-27-2004, 03:27 PM

I would be willing to help, I already have all minor league statistics including fielding in text format from 1994-2003. Question I have is, will you be putting in same format as lahman with master table, and playerid and such. If so how are you going to determine the playerid. btw, I also have all biographical data for all the players from 94-03, as I was beginning a project similar to this one. E-mail me at jwisenberg@earthlink.net

LivnLegend · 02-27-2004, 03:45 PM

wow, ambitious project! Good luck LGO!

Le Grande Orange · 02-27-2004, 04:37 PM

Jwisenberg,

Wow, great stuff on having the 1994-2003 minor league stats. That's a good chunk of years right there. I'll definitely e-mail you about that.

As for using the same format as Lahman, well truthfully, I know nothing about databases like that. At this point I was just thinking in gathering the stats and getting them into basic Excel files, since then data would be in digital form. I would think that, once that stage is reached, it shouldn't be too difficult to then manipulate the files to get them into the proper database format needed. Player IDs could be added to the files, and so forth.

If anyone is more familiar with how databases like that of Lahman are set up, then please let me know what type of things I should be aware of and take into consideration.

Qrusher14242 · 02-27-2004, 05:00 PM

I'd like to help. I could help enter the data into excel if you want. dioduke14242@sbcglobal.net

theREDdoor28 · 02-27-2004, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ctorg
This is a great idea, LGO, something I've thought of attempting in the past before I did my fictional player database. I'm not sure where you'll find all that data, but if you can, it would be great. I would love to help out with the data, but my pot is full (or, actually, overflowing) at the moment. Perhaps I can help in the future.

No problem.

This is also a GREAT link for players.

For example, this search of Griffey Jr. gives us all his awards hes won over his career, all his transactions over his career, his minor league and major league careet totals, major league career highs, movements and injuries, and other notes.

Great resource I find myself going to many times a day.

Carlton · 02-27-2004, 08:06 PM

I wish I had more time to help LGO

Thank you for your efforts

Spritze · 02-27-2004, 08:15 PM

I have a database that outputs in the Lahman format. It contains the full minor league records (batting, pitching and fielding) of every player who appeared in the majors between 1951 and 1970 as well as selected minor league only players and negro league players. It contains both their actual stats as well as MLE's for each year as OOTP bases all its ratings on major league stats. It contains the records of about 3000 players who appeared in AAA from 1929 through the 1990's. I can send you the appropriate data if it would be of help to you. I plan to post in the Lahman format the rosters for 1951-1962 on simcentral in the next few days.

Le Grande Orange · 02-28-2004, 03:44 AM

Holy smokes, Spritze! Very nice collection of data you have there! I think it would be something of an understatement to say that it would be helpful.

Yes, I'd love to take a look at what you have... I'm sure it would go a long way in making things complete.

By the way, hope you don't mind me asking, but how did you acquire all those stats? Was it a personal research project of your own? Anyway, it certainly sounds quite impressive!

How were the MLE values calculated? I thought that formula was still basically a secret...

Spritze · 03-01-2004, 02:24 PM

I have been working on the database since version 3 of OOTP

I obtained the information from the Reach and Sporting News Guides and Registers as well as other sources when necessary. I have all of the Guides and Registers since 1930. For the WWII years I obtained guides from the Commissioners office as the Sporting News guides are somewhat incomplete for those years.

MLE's are ridiculously easy to calculate historically as it is known how the players subsequently performed in the majors and how they performed in the minors. With 3,000 players in the database even with those who only had 3 or 4 AB's in the majors can have proper MLE's generated.

I do not however take park effects into consideration (although the database is programed for that) as I found it tends to change the shape of careers. Often a player whose stats are elevated by the park he played in had a longer career than a similar player whose stats are devalued by the park he played in. With park effects in place the devalued player generally had a similar career to the inflated player and that is "unrealistic".

rogmax11 · 03-01-2004, 04:00 PM

Ye gods! I sincerely hope this DB becomes available! What a remarkable resource, and I would like to help.

Fair warning: I am a two-finger typist at best, have only rudimentary computer skills, and am on a mere nodding relationship with Excel. Perhaps I can be a cheerleader, give out a steady stream of "Attaboys!". Uh, to fend off the sharks I meant the cheerleading thing in a figurative sense only: y'all dont want to even begin to imagine me in a skirt with pom-poms.

Le Grande Orange · 03-01-2004, 08:19 PM

I've finished the basic Excel file template for volunteers to fill in, so I should be sending out some e-mails to a few folks in the next couple of days.

Quote:

Originally posted by Spritze
I obtained the information from the Reach and Sporting News Guides and Registers as well as other sources when necessary. I have all of the Guides and Registers since 1930.

Wow, that must be an excellent collection to have at one's fingertips!

Spritze, it sounds like what you're doing is basically the same as me - or do you have a different final database in mind for your efforts? I should definitely chat with you about things at any rate, since it seems like you know a good bit about databases. I can fool around in basics in Excel, but actually constructing a genuine database file is not something I know anything about.

You wouldn't mind if I asked you for a few tips about this sort of stuff, would you?

Recte44 · 05-10-2004, 02:09 PM

Did anything ever come of this?
Sure would be a boon for historical leagues, where the biggest complaint is lack of minor league depth.

Spritze · 05-10-2004, 03:33 PM

I'll post minor league stats in Lahman format on sim central later today. I think I might use MLE's rather than raw numbers cause otherwise the game will promote them unwisely. The post will cover all ML players who appeared in the Majors from 1951 thru 1970. On second thought maybe I'll post both.

02-26-2004, 01:26 AM	#1
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,644	The AAA Minor League Player Database - your help needed! What is this project? Well, it's an attempt to create a full database of player statistics for every season of the three AAA minor leagues, the American Association, the International League, and the Pacific Coast League. If you think "Lahman Database for AAA players" you'd pretty much be on the right path. What could such a thing be used for? Well, for example, one could recreate one of these leagues using the real players, much as Henry is doing his PCL replay. Or, if one was running a historical league, not only could you have the real major league players, but you could even put into the game the real AAA minor league players for a given year. You could choose when to bring them up early, or let other promising minor players get a chance at the majors that they didn't get in reality. These are just two possibilities; there are probably many more possible applications. The first goal is to accumulate the statistics and get it into digital format. Thanks to the Paper of Record web site, I've already gathered the raw stats in The Sporting News issues for a good number of the AAA seasons already. I have 1919-42, 1946-48, and most years between 1956-75. So, how can you help? 1) Express some interest in this idea! Let me know if this is something that intrigues you. 2) You can help in getting the data digitized. If you're interested in helping out, what I can do is e-mail you the PDF file(s) for a given league and year which contain the stats, and a blank Excel file in which to enter the stats. There are a lot of players and seasons to process, so just helping out with this would be great. 3) If you have access to or can find the minor league player stats for seasons other than what I've listed, or have more in-depth stats to add for the post-1948 period, that too would be a big help. There are plenty of seasons with only minimal data, as well as seasons I haven't yet gathered yet. If you'd like to help, then just respond in the thread and we'll take it from there. You needn't read any further, but if you wish too that's fine by me. *** By the way, the TSN pages in the earlier years list a fair number of stats. Usually, for batting any players with 10 or more games was listed, and for pitchers it was those with 45 or more innings pitched. The result is that a good many players are included. Unfortunately, after WWII the players listed drop to only the qualifiers, meaning far fewer AAA players' stats are printed. In later years more players became listed again, but the stats covered were reduced to a very basic set. For the 1919-42 years, the batting stats covered (leaving aside calculated stats, such as batting average or total bases) included: G, AB, R, H, 2B, 3B, HR, RBI, SH, and SB. Other areas included but not consistently: BB, SO, and HBP. Pitching stats covered were: G, W, L, IP, H, R, BB, and SO. Usually included were: AB, ER, and CG. Included from time to time SH, HBP, WP, and SHO were mentioned. (For those years where ER weren't listed, the player's final ERA was listed, so it's possible to work backwards from the ERA and IP to arrive at a very close estimate of the ER given up.) Fielding stats were consistent; these were broken down by position (except for outfielders, who were listed as a combined group). The areas covered were: G, PO, A, E. All of this means that the players will be covered in fairly good detail. Unfortunately, after the mid-1960's the stats covered are only the most basic, and were usually: G, AB, R, H, HR, and RBI for batters, and G, W, L, IP, BB, SO, SV for pitchers. Certainly, less detail, but hopefully still useful. Anyway, I've just about got the Excel template file set up. All someone would have to do is just enter in the stats into the appropriate fields. For fun, however, I thought I'd include a number of the calculated stats, or at least those that can be derived from the statistical areas covered. Right now, I'm thinking I'd include for batters, of course, TB and BA, as well as OBP, SLG, OPS, ISO, SA, HR%, SO%, K/BB, and RC (the most basic version of the formula; the latter versions require stat areas not included in the TSN pages). For pitchers, I'm including ERA (naturally), OBA, H/9, BB/9, K/9, K/BB, and WHIP. If you have any other calculated stats that could be included, or instead of ones I've mentioned, just post them up. Just keep in mind they do need to be derived from the statistical categories that were normally included. The final area where things might be problematic are the more biographical details, such as birthdate, height, weight, or batting and throwing hand. For AAA minor players who ended up in the majors, the info can be easily found, but for those who stayed only in the minors it might be harder to track down. TSN did, in some years at least, print the rosters of some of the minor league teams for the upcoming season, and did include many of the aforementioned areas. So these details can be found in at least some degree. I still have to try and search for these. Whew, that's it then. I hope a few folks will be interested and might be willing to do some typing up of stats. Your comments and suggestions are welcomed.

02-26-2004, 05:16 AM	#2
dougaiton Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Location: Posts: 3,414	I'd just like to say that this sounds like the most fantastic project in the history of time. __________________ tThis shower of clowns My park-adjusted, historically split Born in '69 league file! (also at Joe's wonderful site +BBSC)

02-26-2004, 11:00 AM	#3
theREDdoor28 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Paintsville, KY Posts: 238	http://www.sports-wired.com/players/ is a good place for minor league stats for minor leaguers, and even major leaguers. __________________ <CENTER> Disrepute - DVD Collection - eBay - GWB2004</CENTER>

02-26-2004, 12:02 PM	#4
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	This is a great idea, LGO, something I've thought of attempting in the past before I did my fictional player database. I'm not sure where you'll find all that data, but if you can, it would be great. I would love to help out with the data, but my pot is full (or, actually, overflowing) at the moment. Perhaps I can help in the future. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

02-26-2004, 10:23 PM	#6
The Professor Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: East of East Posts: 3,020	Fantastic!! I've wanted to do this project for more than a year now, but - unfortunately - have a lot on the table at the moment.... Good luck LGO!! __________________ History isn't really about the past - settling old scores. It's about defining the present and who we are."

02-26-2004, 08:39 PM	#5
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,644	Doug, check your PM box. Ctorg, I understand about the pot being full - I'm really at that point myself, but I thought at least the ball could get rolling on this. When it'll be finished is anyone's guess... a long time would seem a reasonable estimate. I still have to get in my quota of schedule work done during this too. RedDoor, thanks for that link, it's quite good. A lot of helpful stuff there. If you find any other web sites please let me know!

02-26-2004, 10:34 PM	#7
ihatenames Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Rockford Posts: 2,534	i have limited time, but i'd be willing to help some with this project. __________________ New Album coming soon!

02-27-2004, 03:27 PM	#8
jwisenberg OOTP Roster Team Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 869	I would be willing to help, I already have all minor league statistics including fielding in text format from 1994-2003. Question I have is, will you be putting in same format as lahman with master table, and playerid and such. If so how are you going to determine the playerid. btw, I also have all biographical data for all the players from 94-03, as I was beginning a project similar to this one. E-mail me at jwisenberg@earthlink.net

02-27-2004, 03:45 PM	#9
LivnLegend Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: 100% pure adrenaline! Posts: 5,624	wow, ambitious project! Good luck LGO! __________________ Excess ain't rebellion. You're drinking what they're selling.

02-27-2004, 04:37 PM	#10
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,644	Jwisenberg, Wow, great stuff on having the 1994-2003 minor league stats. That's a good chunk of years right there. I'll definitely e-mail you about that. As for using the same format as Lahman, well truthfully, I know nothing about databases like that. At this point I was just thinking in gathering the stats and getting them into basic Excel files, since then data would be in digital form. I would think that, once that stage is reached, it shouldn't be too difficult to then manipulate the files to get them into the proper database format needed. Player IDs could be added to the files, and so forth. If anyone is more familiar with how databases like that of Lahman are set up, then please let me know what type of things I should be aware of and take into consideration.

02-27-2004, 05:00 PM	#11
Qrusher14242 All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: CA Posts: 1,253	I'd like to help. I could help enter the data into excel if you want. dioduke14242@sbcglobal.net __________________ "Go then, there are other worlds than these"

02-27-2004, 08:06 PM	#13
Carlton Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,765	I wish I had more time to help LGO Thank you for your efforts __________________ "I am at that stage of my life where I keep myself out of arguments. I am 100% self sufficient spiritually, emotionally & financially. Even if you say 1+1=5, you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. Enjoy!"

02-27-2004, 08:15 PM	#14
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	I have a database that outputs in the Lahman format. It contains the full minor league records (batting, pitching and fielding) of every player who appeared in the majors between 1951 and 1970 as well as selected minor league only players and negro league players. It contains both their actual stats as well as MLE's for each year as OOTP bases all its ratings on major league stats. It contains the records of about 3000 players who appeared in AAA from 1929 through the 1990's. I can send you the appropriate data if it would be of help to you. I plan to post in the Lahman format the rosters for 1951-1962 on simcentral in the next few days.

02-28-2004, 03:44 AM	#15
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,644	Holy smokes, Spritze! Very nice collection of data you have there! I think it would be something of an understatement to say that it would be helpful. Yes, I'd love to take a look at what you have... I'm sure it would go a long way in making things complete. By the way, hope you don't mind me asking, but how did you acquire all those stats? Was it a personal research project of your own? Anyway, it certainly sounds quite impressive! How were the MLE values calculated? I thought that formula was still basically a secret...

03-01-2004, 02:24 PM	#16
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	I have been working on the database since version 3 of OOTP I obtained the information from the Reach and Sporting News Guides and Registers as well as other sources when necessary. I have all of the Guides and Registers since 1930. For the WWII years I obtained guides from the Commissioners office as the Sporting News guides are somewhat incomplete for those years. MLE's are ridiculously easy to calculate historically as it is known how the players subsequently performed in the majors and how they performed in the minors. With 3,000 players in the database even with those who only had 3 or 4 AB's in the majors can have proper MLE's generated. I do not however take park effects into consideration (although the database is programed for that) as I found it tends to change the shape of careers. Often a player whose stats are elevated by the park he played in had a longer career than a similar player whose stats are devalued by the park he played in. With park effects in place the devalued player generally had a similar career to the inflated player and that is "unrealistic". __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!

03-01-2004, 04:00 PM	#17
rogmax11 All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,320	Ye gods! I sincerely hope this DB becomes available! What a remarkable resource, and I would like to help. Fair warning: I am a two-finger typist at best, have only rudimentary computer skills, and am on a mere nodding relationship with Excel. Perhaps I can be a cheerleader, give out a steady stream of "Attaboys!". Uh, to fend off the sharks I meant the cheerleading thing in a figurative sense only: y'all dont want to even begin to imagine me in a skirt with pom-poms.

05-10-2004, 02:09 PM	#19
Recte44 Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Oconomowoc, WI Posts: 2,811	Did anything ever come of this? Sure would be a boon for historical leagues, where the biggest complaint is lack of minor league depth. __________________ Matt Rectenwald Commissioner, GM: Las Vegas Hustlers, The Brewster Baseball Association- fictional league (JOIN NOW)

05-10-2004, 03:33 PM	#20
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	I'll post minor league stats in Lahman format on sim central later today. I think I might use MLE's rather than raw numbers cause otherwise the game will promote them unwisely. The post will cover all ML players who appeared in the Majors from 1951 thru 1970. On second thought maybe I'll post both.