leagues as democracies or dictatorships

treedom · 02-16-2004, 02:57 PM

Something I read somewhere inspired this topic...

Does a league have a better chance to live long and prosper if it is run like a democracy, ie. the owners are recruited then all the rules are decided by the majority...or like a dictatorship, where the commish writes the rules in stone, and *then* opens the doors to the public, welcoming those who like the rules to join.

I don't like extremes, so I suspect the answer is somewhere in the middle, but I lean more toward the dictatorship style.

paulywerner · 02-16-2004, 03:11 PM

Someone has to be in charge from the beginning. I would never consider joining a new league where rules werent already in place. At least a firm foundation of the important rules. Commishs start leagues, whether its by themselves or with peeps, to build the league in their eyes. I do however think it is important to discuss rule changes, and to hear everyone out without immediately shooting down.

ifspuds · 02-16-2004, 03:24 PM

I'd agree with paulywerner. You have to start with a number of rules in place. You can take votes on a few house rules, but the basics have to be in place when you start. Rule changes from there on out should be by a vote of the owners if possible, since after a season or two, the owners are (hopefully) invested in the league as much as the commish is.

UD411Flyer · 02-16-2004, 03:35 PM

The way I setup my league is I setup everything in stone, and made sure that everyone was aware of what we wanted to accomplish.

However, now that the league has started, rules are subject to change upon league votes, etc....

I like to have a dictatorship to startup the league, so everyone knows the direction, and what they're getting into. After that I turn it over into a fun, clean community that's enjoyable by all...

paulywerner · 02-16-2004, 03:44 PM

you should really see the rules page for the AOBL... that thing has been aded to and revised for going on 5 seasons now... so anything can always change or be reversed

sporr · 02-16-2004, 04:59 PM

We do take suggestions and comments, but ultimately we go against the grain and do not have league votes for new rules. From the beginning, my co-commish and I have stuck to our vision for the league and we want it to stick to our ideas for the most part in the future. That said, I feel that we have been fair to everyone in the rules that we have changed or added.

jaxmagicman · 02-16-2004, 05:04 PM

I have been in both, and I think the dictator leagues end up being better because the commish is trying to please everyone.

KidRock · 02-16-2004, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by UD411Flyer
The way I setup my league is I setup everything in stone, and made sure that everyone was aware of what we wanted to accomplish.

However, now that the league has started, rules are subject to change upon league votes, etc....

I like to have a dictatorship to startup the league, so everyone knows the direction, and what they're getting into. After that I turn it over into a fun, clean community that's enjoyable by all...

UM sorry but that counterdicts itself, you cant say the rules are set in stone than allow rule changes by votes that the original was not stone was it?

I personaly like strict rules and commishes so I can plan my teams future knowing whats going on and not rules that change at a glance and distroy what I was trying to do.

Carlton · 02-16-2004, 05:53 PM

Well two steps to the left of a dictatorship.

What is the political definition of that? Socialist?

The Commish should make all rules from the beginning, yet be flexible enough that if something is not working he will take steps to correct it. Also, the owners have to do the "serf" work by writing articles, and creating a history for their own team, so even if they don't last the new GM can re read those articles and get a good feel for his team

treedom · 02-16-2004, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carlton
Well two steps to the left of a dictatorship.

What is the political definition of that? Socialist?

I hate to go off topic in a thread I started, but I can't help myself.

Socialism is an economic ideology. You can have a socialist democracy, like Sweden or a socialist dictatorship, like Cuba...but socialism in itself cannot be compared on the same spectrum as democracy or dictatorship...it's like apples and oranges.

UD411Flyer · 02-16-2004, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KidRock
UM sorry but that counterdicts itself, you cant say the rules are set in stone than allow rule changes by votes that the original was not stone was it?

I personaly like strict rules and commishes so I can plan my teams future knowing whats going on and not rules that change at a glance and distroy what I was trying to do.

How is it? I said it's setup in stone...never said they rules are in stone, take it or leave it.

I'm strict and aren't going to just overturn a vote to overturn it. League votes should be able to take place. If the league doesn't feel that the rule shouldn't be for the league, then it shouldn't be.

LivnLegend · 02-16-2004, 06:27 PM

spoor echoed my previous comments - the most important thing is to have a vision, quantify it, and stick with it. Leagues that survive stay true to their premise. If you have a league founded on the principle of "run by the owners", stick with it. I've been on both types of leagues and both can work. My first online league was run by a guy who ruled the league solidly, without input from the team owners. The league was successful and spawned several future Commissioners (myself included). The opposite of that was the CooleyVol-founded ABA which Mark truly valued the input of the owners before making any large changes in the league. It worked because the league was founded on that principle. If either league had tried a mid-course change, chaos and confusion could have easily set in.

Crapshoot · 02-16-2004, 07:11 PM

I think a Comish has to start a team and guide it initially based on his own principles, along with whoever was a part of it initially. As it evolves though, I prefer the idea of some degree of group thought on this issue, dependent on how dedicated the owners are and how long they have been and are likely to be a part of it.. .

02-16-2004, 02:57 PM	#1
treedom Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Transylvania Posts: 2,900	leagues as democracies or dictatorships Something I read somewhere inspired this topic... Does a league have a better chance to live long and prosper if it is run like a democracy, ie. the owners are recruited then all the rules are decided by the majority...or like a dictatorship, where the commish writes the rules in stone, and then opens the doors to the public, welcoming those who like the rules to join. I don't like extremes, so I suspect the answer is somewhere in the middle, but I lean more toward the dictatorship style. __________________ A rake and a roustabout.

02-16-2004, 03:11 PM	#2
paulywerner Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 319	Someone has to be in charge from the beginning. I would never consider joining a new league where rules werent already in place. At least a firm foundation of the important rules. Commishs start leagues, whether its by themselves or with peeps, to build the league in their eyes. I do however think it is important to discuss rule changes, and to hear everyone out without immediately shooting down. __________________ "I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it." OTBA Manhattan Millionaires The Juiced Baseball League Kansas City Royals United Baseball League Montreal Expos Bricks and Ivy Washington Nationals

02-16-2004, 03:24 PM	#3
ifspuds Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 2,117	I'd agree with paulywerner. You have to start with a number of rules in place. You can take votes on a few house rules, but the basics have to be in place when you start. Rule changes from there on out should be by a vote of the owners if possible, since after a season or two, the owners are (hopefully) invested in the league as much as the commish is. __________________ Jeff Watson Former dynasty writer and online league player, now mostly retired

02-16-2004, 03:35 PM	#4
UD411Flyer All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 583	The way I setup my league is I setup everything in stone, and made sure that everyone was aware of what we wanted to accomplish. However, now that the league has started, rules are subject to change upon league votes, etc.... I like to have a dictatorship to startup the league, so everyone knows the direction, and what they're getting into. After that I turn it over into a fun, clean community that's enjoyable by all... __________________ Behind The Pl8-Chicago Cubs/Commissioner EIBL-Atlanta Braves/Commissioner NOBSL-Tampa Bay Devil Rays AAA-Sacranton-WB Red Barons ATGC-Orrville Red Riders

02-16-2004, 03:44 PM	#5
paulywerner Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 319	you should really see the rules page for the AOBL... that thing has been aded to and revised for going on 5 seasons now... so anything can always change or be reversed __________________ "I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it." OTBA Manhattan Millionaires The Juiced Baseball League Kansas City Royals United Baseball League Montreal Expos Bricks and Ivy Washington Nationals

02-16-2004, 04:59 PM	#6
sporr Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Muscatine, IA Posts: 8,277	We do take suggestions and comments, but ultimately we go against the grain and do not have league votes for new rules. From the beginning, my co-commish and I have stuck to our vision for the league and we want it to stick to our ideas for the most part in the future. That said, I feel that we have been fair to everyone in the rules that we have changed or added.

02-16-2004, 05:04 PM	#7
jaxmagicman Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Retired defloration-maker living in Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 7,801	I have been in both, and I think the dictator leagues end up being better because the commish is trying to please everyone. __________________ See ID Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

02-16-2004, 05:53 PM	#9
Carlton Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,765	Well two steps to the left of a dictatorship. What is the political definition of that? Socialist? The Commish should make all rules from the beginning, yet be flexible enough that if something is not working he will take steps to correct it. Also, the owners have to do the "serf" work by writing articles, and creating a history for their own team, so even if they don't last the new GM can re read those articles and get a good feel for his team __________________ "I am at that stage of my life where I keep myself out of arguments. I am 100% self sufficient spiritually, emotionally & financially. Even if you say 1+1=5, you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. Enjoy!"

02-16-2004, 06:27 PM	#12
LivnLegend Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: 100% pure adrenaline! Posts: 5,624	spoor echoed my previous comments - the most important thing is to have a vision, quantify it, and stick with it. Leagues that survive stay true to their premise. If you have a league founded on the principle of "run by the owners", stick with it. I've been on both types of leagues and both can work. My first online league was run by a guy who ruled the league solidly, without input from the team owners. The league was successful and spawned several future Commissioners (myself included). The opposite of that was the CooleyVol-founded ABA which Mark truly valued the input of the owners before making any large changes in the league. It worked because the league was founded on that principle. If either league had tried a mid-course change, chaos and confusion could have easily set in. __________________ Excess ain't rebellion. You're drinking what they're selling.

02-16-2004, 07:11 PM	#13
Crapshoot Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: watching: DArwin's missing link in action Posts: 3,112	I think a Comish has to start a team and guide it initially based on his own principles, along with whoever was a part of it initially. As it evolves though, I prefer the idea of some degree of group thought on this issue, dependent on how dedicated the owners are and how long they have been and are likely to be a part of it.. . __________________ Senior Senor Member of the OOTP Boards Pittsburgh Playmates- OTBL