Lennox Lewis to retire!

[Mr Big]

Just read on Fightnews.com that Heavyweight Champion Lennox Lewis is poised to announce his retirement from boxing at a press conference tomorrow morning in London. Think it is a smart move on his part. Also sets up a VERY interesting potential match-up between top contenders Vitali Klitschko and Corrie Sanders for the soon to be vacant WBC belt. Any thoughts?

[Rasmuth]

that settles it for me...he didn't fight the best competition he could have. If he had fought Klitschko again and won...I would have been satisfied...but obviously he won't...which taints him in my eyes. Just my opinion. A win over Klitschko would have capped off his career, in my mind. Oh well.

[wildhawke11]

Rasmuth
If this is true, then Lewis has now excepted that he can no longer get himself in shape, and his reflexes are finally gone, but even before his last fight i was saying that on another boxing board, but i think my remarks fell on deaf ears.

As for him not fighting Klitschko again, and it tainting him fine, then hold that against him by all means. But then also apply the same rules to some the USA fighters who looked bad at his age and younger including the Great Ali who when well beat and past it never went back in the ring again with Larry Holmes or Trevor Berbick. I think a few would have rather seen an old man in boxing terms, get his head punched in just because his body and age have finally caught up with him.

Don't think i am a lover of Lewis because i am not, but don't knock the guy if he knows in his heart that its all over for him and is sensible enough to know it.

Marciano, Tunney and Lewis all have something in common. There the only 3 fighters in History in the HWC to at least beat once ever fighter that stepped in the ring with them. Lewis might not even make the top 10 on a lot of peoples list but don't underrate him, at his peak he would have been a good match up to say the least against many of the All time greats. (note i said at his peak)

I will agree that P4P he would have been in trouble with most of them. As i said on another thread, he had bad balance, was not comfortable with the smaller men at times, and did not have the greatest chin, but the truth is it was no worse then the Great Joe Louis had, but what he did bring into the ring was a fair jab, strength, great punch power, and like Tunney used his abilities to his own advantage and did not most times play into the other guys hands. That's why some of his fights just like Larry Holmes at times could be pretty boring.
But again just like Holmes he achieved his objectives and won most of his fights, and believe it or not, that's the name of the game
*winning*

I love the old timers, but the truth is Lewis would have been to big and to strong for a lot of them he would have walked through nearly all of Joe Louis opposition Rasmuth, Yes guys like Dempsey etc etc took on big guys at times but, and i hate to say this, in nearly all cases they were not in the class of Lewis.

That's why its fair when you judge the Top Ten HWs of all time never to judge it in most cases on a who would have beaten who but better i feel to take it on the competition around at the time, also take into account P4P and also the era the guy fought in, different rules applied, often the gloves were smaller, the padding in the gloves was different,

Most people and i agree rate Joe Louis in the top 3 Hws of all time, but he was put down 11 times i think and often by less then great hitters, He always managed to get up. But in all honesty would that have been the case if he had been hit by Liston, Foreman, Shavers, Williams, Tyson and yes Lewis. Again i agree the same could be said of Lewis.
Rasmuth nothing personal here, just my view.

[dempsonny]

Danny,
Lewis didn't have the chin of the all time greats or the desire to get in shape.

Gus

[Rasmuth]

I'm not so sure that Lewis has declined that much...and I'm sure he could get in great shape....IF he wanted to. But...he's never been the same since Rahman knocked him out. I guess his desire is gone. I think he could do it but he doesn't want to.

[GDE]

2 fights in the last 26 months. Not much of a champion to me.

He let himself get old.

[madcap]

So long, quitter!

I've never rated Lewis very high. I rate him below Tommy Burns, to say the truth. His main accomplishment was beating a Mike Tyson 10 years past his prime, and beating a puffed up cruiserweight (with all due respect to Vander, but that's what he is) so Lewis hasn't done very much. He's hurt boxing by his unwillingness to fight for the last 2 years, new blood will be welcome.

[wildhawke11]

A fighters job is to win fights first and foremost, Each fighter has different tools in his make up. No Champion including Ali was perfect. Fighters even the best are not robots, each and every one of them had weaknesses So to be competitive and rise to the top of the tree you maximise your strengths and minimise your weaknesses. Lewis has done this very affectedly over most of his carrier, you have to agree.

Now if Lewis has such a bad chin, how come he has been down only 2 times in 14 years of pro boxing, and that includes i think about 18 championship fights. Law of averages says a guy with a real glass chin would have been down a lot more.


Bigger is not always better, but as history proves in nearly all cases the good big man usually beats the great little man. Just look at the little men throughout history who have tried to take on men in a higher division.

Now why was Lewis the guy they say has a glass chin not knocked down more. The truth is he made most of them fight not as they would want to. At 38 years of age and being inactive and far from the prime Lewis, he still managed to take Vitali best punches.

The nearest fighter i think over my time, to the perfect fighter was the great Ray Robinson. In nearly every category if you was rating Ray you would have to give him 8 out of 10 but even Ray knew his limits when it came to giving weight away.

Floyd Patterson it is well known had a so called glass jaw as a heavyweight. But when asked at one stage by his manager to consider talking on Patterson. Robinsons reply to his manager was "you fight him" i have a video here where Patterson is being interviewed and he admits in the film Robinson told him that.

Lewis i might scrape into the Top 15. Simple because he is or rather was at his peak a strong hard puncher,a 230 lb peak Lewis would have been a little to big and strong for the likes of Tunney or Ezzard Charles. After the Top 15 or so there is i feel a drop in class and i think Lewis fits in nicely about there.
I think the problem is now we are more inclined to remember the older less fit and less motivated Lewis.

I never have really liked Lewis as a fighter, and that's the honest truth, but i refuse to let my dislike of him cloud my judgement of him overall.

I also am glad in a way that he knows its now time for him to get out of one of the toughest jobs to be in. He is wise enough not like Ali or Holyfield to know when the time is right to get out.
Well, for what its worth My Boxing Friends that's how i read it.
Danny

[djday45]

I would classify Lennox's chin as a KD 2 amd KO 4. Basically a good solid chin, but if he does go down he might not be getting back up!

Rgds
Dean

[crusadecat]

I am thinking that this may be a ploy to get the powers that be to up the ante for 1 more fight with Klitschko. I take sports retirements especially Boxing ones with an extremely jaundiced eye. I would never consider him a great Champion. Just the best of whats out there in todays hw scene.

[darthpb]

Getting out now just proves he was smarter than most. As for his place in history, off the top of my head he'd probably be between 15-25 somewhere on my list...again, just off the top off my head...

[cubedrum]

Check out this list of all time heavies. This guy has Lennox at #6 all time. Don't agree with that, but a fascinating take on heavyweight boxing by a severe computer geek.
http://www.geocities.com/mgpaul2/ALL-TIME_LIST.TXT

Cube

[darthpb]

Burt Sugar was just on ESPN and he had him in the top 12 all-time...seems a bit high but what do I know...

[darthpb]

Originally posted by cubedrum
Check out this list of all time heavies. This guy has Lennox at #6 all time. Don't agree with that, but a fascinating take on heavyweight boxing by a severe computer geek.
http://www.geocities.com/mgpaul2/ALL-TIME_LIST.TXT

Cube

That's one interesting list...hmmm

[swampdragon]

In these days of big money, no athlete should be considered retired until he's been out for over a year. Even then... are you absolutely positive Dan Marino or Troy Aikman won't try it again?
I could list examples, but you already know them.

[Mad Bomber]

If Lennox Lewis had such a bad chin, and Mike Tyson was considered so tough then how come he
was knocked out in every fight he ever lost.
Alright the second Holyfield fight (blown-up Cruiser)
he was DQ'd on the way to being knocked out, and
Tyson and Bowe refused to fight him,until Tyson
needed him. Give the man his due.

Greg

[sabotai]

People have Lewis high on their lists because he's the "here and now". Everyone always rates the current champions (if they've been champion for a few years) higher than they really should. Give it about 10 years, and I doubt he'll be in many top 20's, let alone top 10's.

As for Lewis being old and getting out when he can? Then basically Lewis has been just acting like a big talker. After the Vitali fight, Lewis was all over the place proclaiming how he was on the verge of knocking Vitali out. That within the next couple of rounds, he would have knocked him out anyway. Right after the fight, Lewis was very agreeable to a rematch. He suddenly became Mike Tyson talking about eating up both Vitali and Wlad. How it didn't matter. He'd beat them both.

Now, just several months later, not even a year, now he's too old to get into the ring again. No. You can't talk about how great you are and how you'll beat everyone and how you were easily on the verge of knocking out Vitali and then turn around and retire claiming age has caught up with you and it's time...

Either Lewis beleives he can beat Vitali or he doesn't. If he beleives he can beat Vitali, with the controvesy of the last fight and the backlash he'll get for not getting in the ring, I can't imagine why Lewis would retire (that is, if he at all cares about how people view him and his legacy, which he very well might not). If he doesn't beleive he can beat Vitali, then his choice is obvious. Retire.

That's why Lewis gets under my skin. He's been talking big before and since the Vitali fight, and now he's going to retire. I honestly beleive that Lewis thinks he'll lose to Vitali and that's why he's retiring.

And I don't have a problem with it. Just be man and admit "Hey, I'm old. I can't get back into shape and I'm not going to put myself in a position where I'll lose." Don't walk around like your the "emporer" of boxing and run when the pressure is on.

That just gets under my skin. Back it up when you talk big. Sorry to rant.

[sabotai]

Originally posted by swampdragon
In these days of big money, no athlete should be considered retired until he's been out for over a year. Even then... are you absolutely positive Dan Marino or Troy Aikman won't try it again?
I could list examples, but you already know them.

Well, Troy Aikmen retired because it got to the point where a strong wind would give him a concussion, so I think we can be sure he won't try again.

[wildhawke11]

Well, its nice to see Bert Sugar and i have something in common we both rate Lewis about the same give or take a few places.

I will be perfectly honest with you guys now. at the risk of upsetting some of you. I think your annoyed that Lewis hung on to that belt without putting his title on the line, Because of this its being reflected in how some now view him in the overall history of boxing.

The true historian does not let that fact overlook his overall judgement when rating a fighter. In fact i personally think that given time and the years roll away Lewis if anything will be judged in history even higher not put down more.

Let me take a little bet with some of you, I bet Jim Trunzo has Lewis in about the same position in boxing history as Bert and myself. He might even put him in the Top 10. In fact if its on a who would have beaten who basis he will do that.

Jim already thinks Dempsey is overrated and if you look back at who in fact Jack took on there is a case to be made for that. That i hasten to add is not my view of Dempsey.

He also has stated that he hates to say this but Marciano and the other 187 lb fighters would not have handled the bigger guys of the last 20 years or so. He is working on there just to small.

Roy Jones at about 190lb was wary about taking on an over the hill Lewis. He quite rightly knew even a shot old Lewis would still outgun him. So how is he going to beat Lewis he cant fight Lewis from long range. Lewis reach is to long, So he has to try to get under that reach which of course brings him right into Lewis firepower. That first thing to go on a fighter is his legs and reflexes. The last thing is your punch power. Jones knows that one good hit from Lewis and its goodnight. and that's Roys way of thinking against an over the hill Lewis.
Jones is smart enough to know a prime Lewis would have killed him. Yet some believe that the old 185 lb fighters would have beaten a prime 230lb Lewis.

My own view is the old time greats P4P might have beat Lewis but they could not have given nearly 50lb away to him if all at peak.

Take Riddick Bowe on a good night he could have held his own with anyway. Yet he avoided meeting Lewis. Maybe a little to do with that is the fact Lewis finished him of in the 2nd round when they met as amateurs.

The sad truth is USA has had nothing in the last few years in the HW division to rave about and your future in that division looks pretty bleak as well. That's the result of a better standard of living for most, as well as the fact there are less painful ways in sports to earn money for big guys.
But again i hasten to add that's just my opinion.

[dempsonny]

Cube,
That same guy has Holmes #3, Jack Sharkey 17, Gunboat Smith 18, Kid McCoy and Tom Sharkey 22, George Gardner 26 and Fred Fulton 28.
I didn't look at his system closely to see what he basis these ratings on but I really don't care to either.

Gus