Billy Wagner feels he was traded because the Astro's didn't like him

[Karros270]

From CBS Sportsline


HOUSTON -- Former Houston Astros closer Billy Wagner thought he was traded to the Philadelphia Phillies after last season as a cost-cutting measure.

The Astros have since signed pitchers Roger Clemens and Andy Pettitte, and Wagner now thinks he was traded because he was an outspoken critic of Astros owner Drayton McLane for not making a big move last season, when Houston was battling for the NL Central title.

"When I was traded, it was my understanding it was financial and then they get Clemens and Pettitte for double what I was making," Wagner told the Associated Press on Wednesday from his home in Charlottesville, Va. "Instead, they got rid of me because they don't like me."

Wagner will make $8 million next season. The Astros signed Pettitte to a three-year, $31.5 million contract last month. Clemens, who had announced his retirement after he pitched for the New York Yankees in the World Series, signed a one-year deal Monday worth $5 million.

Astros general manager Gerry Hunsicker denied Wagner's assessment.

"I can appreciate how Billy feels, but what feelings we may or may not have had regarding Billy didn't enter into the move to trade him to Philadelphia," Hunsicker said. "The Pettitte and Clemens signings were unusual and special circumstances and not contemplated at the time of the Wagner trade."

After Houston's final game last season, Wagner accused McLane of trying to keep the Astros competitive with "tape jobs" and not pushing them toward the playoffs.

"Yeah, I'm outspoken," he said. "I just don't feel it's wrong to state the obvious or the truth. I'll be the first to tell you if I'm wrong."

Still, Wagner wishes he could be there when the Astros unveil their potent rotation.

"I just wish he'd done this when we were a game out last season," Wagner said. "I'm happy for the team, and wish I was a part of it, but you trade Billy Wagner and get Roger Clemens and Andy Pettitte. That's an easy decision."

Wagner, one of the most popular Astros throughout his career, converted 44 of 47 saves last season. Astros veterans Craig Biggio and Jeff Bagwell were among those unhappy when Wagner was traded.

"I'm happy Bagy and Bidge will get the help they need to win a championship," Wagner said. "Maybe I should have said something earlier last season. I think what I said might have changed some of the outlook of everybody."

The Astros will have a rotation of Clemens and Pettitte to go with young starters Roy Oswalt, Wade Miller and Tim Redding.

Jeriome Robertson, who won 15 games last season, and Carlos Hernandez, recovering from shoulder surgery, also will compete for a starting spot.

Hunsicker said the Astros might not be done making moves. He wants to add a utility outfielder to complete the roster going into spring training.

[marc]

I don't care why Houston traded him to my Phillies I'm just glad that they did

[Crapshoot]

Eh- you're nuts. They gave up a lot of talent, plus are paying 11 million- that's not a good thing.

[SoxWin]

Yep, I'd bet for a whole lot less they could have had Williamson from the Sox.

Edit.

Or just bid on Foulke/Guardato/Hawkins/Rhodes/Urbina whomever.

[Skipaway]

If this is what Wagner need to fire himself up, good for him. He probably la-la-la-ed whenever he saw Drayton McLane or Gerry Hunsicker was on TV.

[marc]

Originally posted by Aadik
Eh- you're nuts. They gave up a lot of talent, plus are paying 11 million- that's not a good thing.

I'm nuts? Replace Wagner with Mesa on last years team and they are in the playoffs EASILY hands down, that means there's a different World Series winner and everything is changed. Duckworth sucks folks come on please tell me that you have not watched him pitch many times and still think he is good?? The others are prospects, there is no gaurentee especially with pitchers. People place way too much importance on prospects sometimes and the Phillies traded from a position of strength in their minor league system, this WAS a good trade, barring injury of course.

[SoxWin]

marc, the point is, there were equivalent options available for less cost in terms of talent and payroll.

You're right about them needing an upgrade in the bully. But so is Aadik for saying you spent too much to do so.

[Skipaway]

I can see why the Phillies would want something better and more surefire than Guardato/Hawkins/Rhodes/Urbina. If this is indeed the last piece of the puzzle, perhaps Foulke was the only other choice that's better.

[Bobbuttons]

I know how Billy Wagner feels. I believe that my ITP character was sent up and down from AAA to the bigs 15 times in two seasons because Baltimore didn't like me. They traded me at the deadline, which was good because there was noooo way in hell I was resigning at the end of my contract...... because they didn't like me.....

[marc]

The point I'm making is, if something can make the difference between making the playoff and sitting at home watching them, then why in the world are we arguing over 2 or 3 million dollars?? Wagner is also better than most of the guys that you guys have been mentioning. What if none of those guys wanted to come to Philadelphia? There are other variables and instead of waiting and possibly ending up with nothing they made a move that could possibly make the difference between missing the playoffs and the wild card or from the wild card to division winner, if that turns out to be the case those 3 million dollars that you guys are arguing about is meaningless. They upgraded the team, therefore GOOD MOVE.

[fantom1979]

IMO this works for both team. Philly obviously doesnt care about blowing 8 million on a closer and Houston wanted to spend that 8 million (plus 7 more) on two solid starting pitchers.

I personally think 8 million is way too much to spend on a closer, but if Wagner wins the Rolaids awards and Philly gets to the WS then maybe I will eat my words.

[dougaiton]

I'm in agreement there, fantom. I appear to remember the thread on Wagner's move at the time being quite interesting.

It all depends on 1) the capital you have to invest in players, 2) the market, and 3) the improvement on league average they represent. Does the upgrade significantly outweigh the expenditure? I think not, especially when the Fighting Phils have yet to sign anyone to deal with all but the 70 innings that Wagner will pitch.

[Jason Moyer]

Going strictly by normal patterns, they should be a significantly better team this year as they'll have Burrell/Bell playing better than last year (they can't be any worse), they traded for one of the top 3 closers in baseball and signed 2 closers to set him up, and they have a rotation of 5 young pitchers who can pitch 180-220 innings a piece and at their worst are average.

There are few offseason moves I could see the Phillies making that would have helped them more than beefing up their bullpen. They could be better at short/second, but Rollins/Polanco are still young and well above average defensively and at least Polanco has started to show some improvement in his secondary average. Centerfield could be a weakness, but Byrd is young and had an incredible second half to his rookie year after struggling the first half and in his 2002 coffee cup trial. They made a serious effort to bring Schilling back or sign one of the premier starters available, and when that fell through they traded for Milton instead.

In no area of the game are the Phillies the best team in baseball, but they're above average and have depth in all areas. If Bell and Burrell bounce back even slightly and Byrd/Polanco continue to improve they could have the best offense in the National League. They were pretty damn close to it last year.

Jason

[marc]

Very well said, I think I agree with everything in that post, only thing I saw was Rollins above average defensively, I'd call him GREAT defensively

[Carlton]

Originally posted by Karros270

"When I was traded, it was my understanding it was financial and then they get Clemens and Pettitte for double what I was making," Wagner told the Associated Press on Wednesday from his home in Charlottesville, Va. "Instead, they got rid of me because they don't like me."
.

Starting pitchers are much more valuable than any closer.

Wonderful, we have this mook in Philly?
If he thought Astro management was bad...

[asamford]

Billy Wagner is an unintelligent redneck jerk.

what's not to like?

[marc]

He may be an unintelligent redneck jerk, but he's an unintelligent redneck jerk that throws 100 MPH, and solidfied a HUGE need for the Phillies so until further notice I'm very happy to have him aboard

[Hammer755]

From CBS Sportsline

"Maybe I should have said something earlier last season. I think what I said might have changed some of the outlook of everybody."

I like this quote the best. So Wagner is insinuating that if he hadn't have said anything after last season, the Astros would not have persued Pettitte or Clemens?

[Johnny Slick]

Starting pitchers are much more valuable than any closer.

I really think it depends on how said closer is used. Theoretically, anyway, a guy who pitches 130 innings in "game" situations a la Willie Hernandez or Dan Quisenberry could very easily be the most valuable pitcher in the league. Granted, the Phillies probably won't pitch Wags 2/3rds that much, but even so 85-90 innings of pitching in close leads and ties with an ERA+ of 200 can potentially be much, much more integral to a team's success than a guy giving you 200 starter's innings of ERA+ 120 ability.

The problem really isn't so much guys like Billy Wagner as it is guys like Kazu Sasaki or Eddie Guardado or Jorge Julio. When you're down to 60 IP in an entire season and yet you still manage to accrue 30 saves, that tells me that virtually the only time you come into games is in the 9th with your team up by 1-3 runs, which is actually one of the least useful situations to bring a closer in. Maybe some guys (Kazu, for example) can't pitch more than that without risking arm troubles, but they don't deserve big bucks, either.

Anyway, one positive thing I've noticed: there appear to be more and more closers pitching 80+ innings nowadays. Maybe moneyball is starting to spread around the league. There's still too many pitching changes, but hopefully in time folks will realize how useless LOOGYs are, too.

John Craven