Do any of you guys ever do this/consider it cheating or cheesy?

neohemp · 01-13-2004, 10:12 PM

Like your game is tied 4 to 4 and so you bring in a SP that you like/want to win for a couple innings to see if you can score, that way he gets the win?

Heh
I've done that like twice in my new season and I'm only like 10 games in.

neohemp · 01-13-2004, 11:19 PM

guess not

hehe

dsvitak · 01-13-2004, 11:34 PM

I have pitched a pitcher on short rest to get his 20th win....we were NOT in the playoffs!

M's rule · 01-14-2004, 01:07 AM

dsvitak sheepishly admitted:

I have pitched a pitcher on short rest to get his 20th
win....we were NOT in the playoffs!

Don't beat yourself up over it. On Sept. 27, 1997, Lou Piniella brought in Randy Johnson after 4 innings with the Mariners ahead 7-3 for the obvious purpose of getting Randy his 20th win. I was sitting along the left field line in the Kingdome, so I had a good view of him warming up before he went in (the pop when the ball hit the mitt was impressive).

Randy pitched 2 innings in "relief" of Omar Olivares, the M's won, Randy got the W, and Ken Griffey Jr. hit his 50th homer. No one in the crowd, least of all yours truly, had any trouble with what Lou did---even though the M's had already won the AL West and thus didn't need to win this game.

My first M's game, and my first and only in the Kingtomb.

On topic, I think neohemp's tactic for building up Ws is a form of cheating, however benign it may seem---since an OOTP player's ratings apparently are not a direct reflection of his accomplishments, you can't make a starter "better" just by contriving to get him more wins. If you want to lead the league in wins with a starter who pitched 130 innings (or whatever), then fine. I don't play the game to achieve that sort of goal.

Needless to say, in real life this approach to using a pitching staff would implode after about 10 or 15 games (assuming the manager was around that long).

BaseballMan · 01-14-2004, 01:13 AM

I guess the best way to keep yourself honest is to think would a real MLB team do that. Maybe if there was injurys or a key game down the stretch but i dont think they would just to give a pitcher
a win unless hes going for a special win.

Yeah its no biggie but would you rather have a 20 game winner that did it the hard way or just bring him in everytime your tied when hes not starting. That would seem like a cheap way to get
30+ wins buts its your call and if its fun for you then thats all that matters.

neohemp · 01-14-2004, 02:25 AM

I'm actually not even saying for 20 wins, or even 10, I'm just saying I'd rather have.. say Matt Morris get the win, than Mike Dejean, or whoever the reliever might be. It's a weird mentality of mine i guess

Henry · 01-14-2004, 09:34 AM

If you did in real life, you'd probably create anger on the team and Dejean would demand a trade... wouldn't earn much respect from your players either...

jeheinz72 · 01-14-2004, 11:51 AM

Also there are financial implications. If you do that, and over the course of the season, you net your starters say, 20 extra wins, boosting them each 4 wins, then they'll each demand more when their contract is up, costing you more money. Plus the RP's could get disappointed and angry.

I'd say, end of the season, to hit a milestone, might be ok, but throughout the whole season, I'd say it's a bad idea overall.

DaveHorn · 01-14-2004, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by M's rule
[B]Don't beat yourself up over it. On Sept. 27, 1997, Lou Piniella brought in Randy Johnson after 4 innings with the Mariners ahead 7-3 for the obvious purpose of getting Randy his 20th win. I was sitting along the left field line in the Kingdome, so I had a good view of him warming up before he went in (the pop when the ball hit the mitt was impressive).

Randy pitched 2 innings in "relief" of Omar Olivares, the M's won, Randy got the W, and Ken Griffey Jr. hit his 50th homer. No one in the crowd, least of all yours truly, had any trouble with what Lou did---even though the M's had already won the AL West and thus didn't need to win this game.

My first M's game, and my first and only in the Kingtomb.

I was there, didn't like it then and still don't. I understand it, Lou and Randy probably got caught up in the moment or something. But the Mariners first 20 game winner, is now forever tainted as a manager ploy. Its a disgrace to baseball and the Mariners. The Mariners record book should have a big fat asterisk in it, or take out RJs name altogether and put Jamie Moyer in his place.

fantom1979 · 01-15-2004, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DaveHorn
I was there, didn't like it then and still don't. I understand it, Lou and Randy probably got caught up in the moment or something. But the Mariners first 20 game winner, is now forever tainted as a manager ploy. Its a disgrace to baseball and the Mariners. The Mariners record book should have a big fat asterisk in it, or take out RJs name altogether and put Jamie Moyer in his place.

The funny thing is that I dont even remember this happening until it was brought up here. I really dont think its a big deal. I really could care less if Randy got 19 or 20 wins. It might be different if it was a MLB record, but this is a team record and the team decided that they wanted Randy to get it.

Cianfrocco · 01-15-2004, 08:28 PM

Lou had talked about brining Randy in a couple days before the game, and no one got too upset about it then, so everyone knew it was coming. Yeah, it was kind of a cheap way to get it, but after all Randy had done for the organization, he deserved it. If he had already gotten 20 wins a couple times, it might be different, but to be the first in team history, I say more power to the Big Unit!

SanDiegoPadres19 · 01-16-2004, 12:56 AM

Just a note that i love your screename and user picture. He was just on the radio here in San Diego and he still lives here and works for a computer company. Just a quickie, why the name and picture?

Godard · 01-16-2004, 01:42 PM

It seems that this happens all the time in the MLB for Saves (but not wins).

Bringing in the closer with a 3 run lead in the 9th but not a 4 run lead seems completely arbitrary to me -- but that's how the Saves stat works, and thus a closer will ALWAYS be called for in that situation.

If I were a manager, I'd have the closer come in whenever it's a key situation in the 8th or 9th... but then, I guess I'm just stuck in the '70s.

-DG in Philly

Cianfrocco · 01-16-2004, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SanDiegoPadres19
Just a note that i love your screename and user picture. He was just on the radio here in San Diego and he still lives here and works for a computer company. Just a quickie, why the name and picture?

Archi has been a favorite of mine for many years. I saw him in a Spring Training "B" game in 1995, and he hit a grand slam, so I paid attention to him. Around 1998 I used the Bigleaguers.com player e-mail just for the heck of it, not expecting a response, and he sent a note back that day! I always root for the guys who aren't the biggest names but play hard, and he seems like good guy.

Rasmuth · 01-16-2004, 05:18 PM

You Padres Fans...every remember a highly touted pitcher who didn't pan out named Ed Wojna (mid 1980's)?

SanDiegoPadres19 · 01-16-2004, 06:34 PM

I remember everybody. Wonja was a lefty wasn't he ?

ronsantohof · 01-18-2004, 12:36 AM

The pitcher could still pitch poorly or even lose the game. If the starter does not go five innings, then any relief pitcher could be credited with the win in that situation. The official scorer awards the win to whichever reliever pitches most effectively.

Long_Long_Name · 01-18-2004, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cianfrocco
Archi has been a favorite of mine for many years. I saw him in a Spring Training "B" game in 1995, and he hit a grand slam, so I paid attention to him. Around 1998 I used the Bigleaguers.com player e-mail just for the heck of it, not expecting a response, and he sent a note back that day! I always root for the guys who aren't the biggest names but play hard, and he seems like good guy.

Nice to have you back here again!

01-13-2004, 10:12 PM	#1
neohemp All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Peoria, IL Posts: 551	Do any of you guys ever do this/consider it cheating or cheesy? Like your game is tied 4 to 4 and so you bring in a SP that you like/want to win for a couple innings to see if you can score, that way he gets the win? Heh I've done that like twice in my new season and I'm only like 10 games in.

01-14-2004, 11:51 AM	#8
jeheinz72 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 2,164	Also there are financial implications. If you do that, and over the course of the season, you net your starters say, 20 extra wins, boosting them each 4 wins, then they'll each demand more when their contract is up, costing you more money. Plus the RP's could get disappointed and angry. I'd say, end of the season, to hit a milestone, might be ok, but throughout the whole season, I'd say it's a bad idea overall. __________________ Join The Dugout!

01-16-2004, 12:56 AM	#12
SanDiegoPadres19 All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2002 Location: San Diego Posts: 937	Just a note that i love your screename and user picture. He was just on the radio here in San Diego and he still lives here and works for a computer company. Just a quickie, why the name and picture? __________________ Classic Jerry Colmanisms "Montreal leads Atlanta by three, 5-1." "They throw Winfield out at second, but he's safe." (As Matt Williams took a curtain call after hitting a home run) "Barry Bonds gets a standing ovation as he digs in." (Following the second out) ".. and the Padres win the National League Wes... oh, just got a little exicted." ************** Internet Sim Baseball League, Lo$ Angele$ Dodger$ ISBL Fictional Blog

01-16-2004, 01:42 PM	#13
Godard Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 48	Manipulating for stats It seems that this happens all the time in the MLB for Saves (but not wins). Bringing in the closer with a 3 run lead in the 9th but not a 4 run lead seems completely arbitrary to me -- but that's how the Saves stat works, and thus a closer will ALWAYS be called for in that situation. If I were a manager, I'd have the closer come in whenever it's a key situation in the 8th or 9th... but then, I guess I'm just stuck in the '70s. -DG in Philly __________________ David Gorgos Nick Punto!

01-16-2004, 05:18 PM	#15
Rasmuth All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Upstate Western NY Posts: 1,760	You Padres Fans...every remember a highly touted pitcher who didn't pan out named Ed Wojna (mid 1980's)? __________________ http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...?bandID=250426

01-13-2004, 11:19 PM	#2
neohemp All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Peoria, IL Posts: 551	guess not hehe

01-13-2004, 11:34 PM	#3
dsvitak Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,414	I have pitched a pitcher on short rest to get his 20th win....we were NOT in the playoffs!

01-14-2004, 01:07 AM	#4
M's rule All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Seattle Posts: 925	dsvitak sheepishly admitted: I have pitched a pitcher on short rest to get his 20th win....we were NOT in the playoffs! Don't beat yourself up over it. On Sept. 27, 1997, Lou Piniella brought in Randy Johnson after 4 innings with the Mariners ahead 7-3 for the obvious purpose of getting Randy his 20th win. I was sitting along the left field line in the Kingdome, so I had a good view of him warming up before he went in (the pop when the ball hit the mitt was impressive). Randy pitched 2 innings in "relief" of Omar Olivares, the M's won, Randy got the W, and Ken Griffey Jr. hit his 50th homer. No one in the crowd, least of all yours truly, had any trouble with what Lou did---even though the M's had already won the AL West and thus didn't need to win this game. My first M's game, and my first and only in the Kingtomb. On topic, I think neohemp's tactic for building up Ws is a form of cheating, however benign it may seem---since an OOTP player's ratings apparently are not a direct reflection of his accomplishments, you can't make a starter "better" just by contriving to get him more wins. If you want to lead the league in wins with a starter who pitched 130 innings (or whatever), then fine. I don't play the game to achieve that sort of goal. Needless to say, in real life this approach to using a pitching staff would implode after about 10 or 15 games (assuming the manager was around that long).

01-14-2004, 01:13 AM	#5
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,656	I guess the best way to keep yourself honest is to think would a real MLB team do that. Maybe if there was injurys or a key game down the stretch but i dont think they would just to give a pitcher a win unless hes going for a special win. Yeah its no biggie but would you rather have a 20 game winner that did it the hard way or just bring him in everytime your tied when hes not starting. That would seem like a cheap way to get 30+ wins buts its your call and if its fun for you then thats all that matters.

01-14-2004, 02:25 AM	#6
neohemp All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Peoria, IL Posts: 551	I'm actually not even saying for 20 wins, or even 10, I'm just saying I'd rather have.. say Matt Morris get the win, than Mike Dejean, or whoever the reliever might be. It's a weird mentality of mine i guess

01-14-2004, 09:34 AM	#7
Henry Hall of Fame Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,498	If you did in real life, you'd probably create anger on the team and Dejean would demand a trade... wouldn't earn much respect from your players either...

01-15-2004, 08:28 PM	#11
Cianfrocco Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 78	Lou had talked about brining Randy in a couple days before the game, and no one got too upset about it then, so everyone knew it was coming. Yeah, it was kind of a cheap way to get it, but after all Randy had done for the organization, he deserved it. If he had already gotten 20 wins a couple times, it might be different, but to be the first in team history, I say more power to the Big Unit!

01-16-2004, 06:34 PM	#16
SanDiegoPadres19 All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2002 Location: San Diego Posts: 937	I remember everybody. Wonja was a lefty wasn't he ? __________________ Classic Jerry Colmanisms "Montreal leads Atlanta by three, 5-1." "They throw Winfield out at second, but he's safe." (As Matt Williams took a curtain call after hitting a home run) "Barry Bonds gets a standing ovation as he digs in." (Following the second out) ".. and the Padres win the National League Wes... oh, just got a little exicted." ************** Internet Sim Baseball League, Lo$ Angele$ Dodger$ ISBL Fictional Blog

01-18-2004, 12:36 AM	#17
ronsantohof Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Dermot, KS Posts: 197	The pitcher could still pitch poorly or even lose the game. If the starter does not go five innings, then any relief pitcher could be credited with the win in that situation. The official scorer awards the win to whichever reliever pitches most effectively. __________________ Guilt or innocence, that's not my job. It's my duty to pick up scum-sucking punks like yourself who are accused of a crime. A jury of twelve really stupid people who are easily swayed by rich, fat-cat, slimy lawyers, who'll do anything but tell the truth, will sit in judgment of you. It's as American as a burrito. Eschew obfuscation.