September callup problem revisited

[mtw]

After just reaching September again in the 2nd season of my 16-team career deadball league, the AI once again only expanded to 33-35 players and called up only pitchers. Frustrated and wanting to know if the problem was only with my league, which was imported from OOTP3, I created 3 different leagues to test September callups: One was a 16-team deadball era league using generated players, one a 16-team modern era league using generated players, and the last league using the default 2001 setup and players included with the game.

In each and every instance, the AI expanded its roster in September to only 33-35 players and called up *only* closers and middle relievers, even going down to A ball. The league I use will call up starters, but presumably that's because there are only 10-15 relievers in the entire league.

Obviously, this is not as serious as a game crash, but I find it to be a fairly significant problem. It's not just my imported league but OOTP4 generated leagues as well, and it has happened after a reinstall and the latest 4.0b patch. It's not league structure nor choice of Eras, so what is the problem?

I didn't see this addressed in the list of fixes in the 4.0c patch, so any help (and especially a fix) is appreciated.

[jor31]

Why does it matter? I only call up a couple players, mostly speed, contact, and relievers...in my legaue i havent seen one team expand to 40. I think because if the player had a minor league contract, the time of free years would start ticking....

[Killebrew]

I had not seen or heard of this yet, but it sounds like something that is not broken, it's just the way the software works currently. Wanting more depth on the AI 40 man roster decisions is a good suggestion though, but it probably rates pretty far behind some other vital technical and AI issues.

[jor31]

the way i see it is i would rather

1) Not start my prospects clock ticking
2) Get my prospects more playing time, unless someone at major league level is hurt or REALLY suck

I normally call up all my old RP's and position players who didnt make the top 25.

[mtw]

It is a problem because the AI doesn't call up players with speed to be pinch runners, or fill in on defense. It's also kind of fun to see some new guys get at bats.

None of this however explains why only middle relievers and closers are called up, going down as far as A ball to get them until the 33-35 level is reached (and starters I guess until there aren't any more), and no position players are called up. I'd kind of like to know why.

[mtw]

bump

I would really like to get some "official" input on this topic. I like seeing the young guys get some playing time in September. That's one of the highlights of baseball IMO, especially for those teams that are out of a pennant race--being able to see the future for next season.

[Killebrew]

[quote]Originally posted by mtw:
<strong>bump

I would really like to get some "official" input on this topic. I like seeing the young guys get some playing time in September. That's one of the highlights of baseball IMO, especially for those teams that are out of a pennant race--being able to see the future for next season.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm sure there will be some official word on this as well, but until then I have to add that what is a problem for you is actually a virtue for some other users. jor31's point about starting the major league contract clock too early on young players early is a valid one, and forcing the AI to bring up more young players in September would greatly hamper the AI as far as team finances are concerned. I guess this is under the "be careful what you wish for" category - do you want the AI's prospects to get 50 September AB's more than you want the AI to be as challenging as it can be?

This is an area you do not want a quick fix such as the AI always calling up 40 players every september, there needs to be some serious AI "thought" to these call-ups. That probably makes adjusting this area of the game a major task, and if that is the case then you need to measure it up against other area's of the game that might need AI fine-tuning as well and judge what should be the design priorities . I also don't believe calling up more prospect players in September for a "cup of coffee" would make the AI any more competitive on the field. This looks like a cosmetic issue for now that unfortunately has a direct impact on the AI teams ability to stay financially competitive.

[blynch10]

I rarely call up players from the minors to fill up a 40 man roster. I'll pull my older players that didn't make the full time roster but that is about it. Why would you want to waste a month of development to have a guy PR/PH or play a couple of games?

Sometimes I do call up a large number of rookies if I'm going to make the playoffs and have about a week to go. I'll replace all of my pitchers and position players with the rookies so that everyone is rested and hopefully avoid injuries. You don't want the players that got you there on the DL at the last day of the season.

It would probably be strain on the AI to bring up rookies and try and make sure they play alot since usually they are inferior to your starting players(other whys they would already be up). The AI is designed to be competitive and this would contradict this programming.

[ 04-04-2002: Message edited by: blynch10 ]

[ 04-04-2002: Message edited by: blynch10 ]</p>

[fluharty]

Oddly enough, I was about to gripe about the AI calling up too many players when I saw this thread. IMO, AA and A guys should not be called up. OOTP is NOT like the major leagues where a guy can skip levels of the minor leagues- players must spend time at every level. So, calling up guys from A/AA makes no sence, and doing so this early starts the clock ticking on theire five automatic years. A/AA guys should never never never be called up, even if it means no one gets called up at all.

Secondly, guys should not be called up just to fill out 40 men. Pitchers should have a 3 in era and hitters a 3 in hits, at a minimum, before they are called up. Again, this starts the clock ticking.

[ 04-04-2002: Message edited by: fluharty ]</p>

[fluharty]

mtw,

Can you point to a specific player that you feel should have gotten a call up, just as an example. Maybe there ware no position players the AI felt deserved a callup or maybe the minors were barren of positional players.

[mtw]

Thank you for the additional input Killebrew, blynch and fluharty.

I understand the potential financial impact of calling up players, but in my league I have not had issues with the AI handling finances, so I can't comment whether calling up players de facto has a negative impact an AI team. In fact, it often seems the AI signs its young players at the expense of dropping older, un- or less productive players, which benefits the team. I think the overall impact of starting a player's clock early depends a lot more on an individual team's income, and also works as a reasonable substitute for "real life" arbitration or long-term deals before arbitration or free agency time have been achieved.

As for which players I'd call up, lets start with how it works right now. The AI is calling up only relievers from its farm system, going down all the way to A ball if necessary to reach the 33-35 player mark. If there aren't enough relievers, then starters are called up. Moreover, these callups are totally unrelated to a player's readiness or the kind of season he's having in the minors. Occasionaly, the AI has even sent a position player or two down to the minors to make room for these extra pitchers. Additionally, it's leaving guys in the minors who already have major league contracts and who could legitimately add depth to the AI roster.

What I'd like to see are callups limited to players who have major league contracts, are within a year of being major league ready (close to major league-level ratings), have had good seasons at AAA, or great seasons at AA, as to fairly mimic real life. If the AI has no players like this, then it shouldn't call up anybody. It should call up as many as it can reasonably find some playing time for.

I'd like to see the AI play its minor league talent regularly in September when the team is out of the pennant race, as in real life.

[Scott Vibert]

[quote]Originally posted by mtw:
<strong>What I'd like to see are callups limited to players who have major league contracts, are within a year of being major league ready (close to major league-level ratings), have had good seasons at AAA, or great seasons at AA, as to fairly mimic real life. If the AI has no players like this, then it shouldn't call up anybody. It should call up as many as it can reasonably find some playing time for.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

This is the key here and to me would be the ideal way the AI should handle September Call-ups.

[code]
IF p_contract_type = MajorLg{
THEN Call Him Up
}
ELSE{
IF season &gt;= Great && ratings &gt;= MajorLg-1{
THEN Call Him Up
}
}
</pre><hr></blockquote>

With some exceptions to the top rule for the promotion of major league contracts (perhaps those still learning a new position, etc.) I think that would be a good way to handle the September callups and is how I handle them for my own purposes.

[ 04-04-2002: Message edited by: ScottVib ]</p>