A Bug To Big To Fix??

[BasicGuy]

I asked before version B of the patch If Markus could fix the problem of If you use the button in league setup to delete career stats It also deletes the team there curently playing for from there stats. I found a work around but I feel haveing to release every player from a league and then resign them to the correct team to be a hassle.

Now I relize theres more patches comeing down the road...But I feel this warrents fixing now....not In a month. Since It Is A Bug not a feature I'm asking for.

Dang It I want to play but I refuse to do a workaround for any program. I'm gonna ask this agian. Didnt any beta tester test this "feature"?

Brad

[BasicGuy]

I'm sorry looking at this topic from the forum screen I can relize It does seem rude. Sorry Markus & devolpment team. Sometimes I can speak before I think. Its A problem way to many of us americans sufer from.

Brad

[MTXperience]

Hey, at least your man enough to admit when you've been a little rash. I'm sure that will be appreciated.

[Killebrew]

I was one of the testers and I admit that I did not test for "the problem of If you use the button in league setup to delete career stats It also deletes the team there currently playing for from there stats" . I do not mean to imply this is not important, but it seems like an issue that might only apply to a very small number of users. Maybe I am not understanding it completely but this is actually the first time I have seen the issue raised. If this is a bug that effects many users then I too would like it fixed ASAP of course.

There are many other area's of the game besides this that we would all like refined based on the way each of us play the game. In cases like this one the most simple developer solutions might actually be to remove the ability to delete career stats completely, so Markus has to weigh the benefits of allowing the user a large amount of freedom within the game's architecture, or refining some key target area's of the game and removing some of the other unrefined area's. I am sure he does not want to remove features that need tweaking, so we are left with some great but maybe incomplete features that require some extra effort (and patience) on our part to take advantage of.

Another example of the games open-ness over refinement is the ability to have 40 teams. There are some unfixed problems associated with having that many teams - should Markus leave the game as is (for now), spend a lot of time refining an area that a majority of users will not even see, or reduce the amount of possible teams to 36 to save a lot of devel time and user complaints? The decision there might be to leave it as it is and flag it as a low priority fix for the future, maybe even for OOTP5.

To me as long as there is a current workaround and the issue only applies to a small percentage of the users then we have to be patient and accept that any gamebreaker bugs or issues/features that impact all users are probably going to be at the head of the line.

[BasicGuy]

Killebrew so you feel manualy releaseing anywhere from 400-1000+ players isnt a showstoper? and then haveing to resign them to there correct teams. Yes I relize Its possible, but realistic? I dont think so. Not for someone who dont want to waste hours just to use a feature of the game.

And your other option take it out rather than fix It? If there Is one problem I have with this board its the fact that the veterans are to quick to say theres a "workable workaround" and defending Markus becuase he's a one man team(or at least was in the past). Yes there Is other things that need to be fixed. but I feel anything that I basicly broke like this or the 40 team problem you explained should be fixed first. Allong with advertised things like New News Storys. Then the other things can be worked on.

Why should we settle for anything less? Killebrew I have great respect for you and others who help out people on this board. This Is just my opinion as you stated yours. I Really mean no disrespect towards you.

brad

[Killebrew]

I was going to add in my above post that I sometimes feel like an apologist for the game . I honestly do not want any game issues swept under the rug or ignored, but I am close enough to things here (game support, beta-testing, user, and real life programmer) that I have a good idea of the amount of time it takes to make some game fixes/tweaks/enhancements. I also see an enormous demand for further game fixes/tweaks/enhancements and with Markus being the lone programmer on this project it's pretty easy to see that not everyone will be able to get their fix/tweak/enhancement into the game. Because of this I have to reply to some issues with the type of explanation I provided above. If I'm wrong and this issue impacts many users then that is different, it should then become more of a priority but it's important to keep in mind that not everything will be able to be perfect for OOTP4, and time spent on fix/tweak/enhancement #1 means that there may not be time for fix/tweak/enhancement #8.

[quote]manualy releaseing anywhere from 400-1000+ players isnt a showstoper? <hr></blockquote>
It would be if doing that was required to play the game, but it is not. Is it possible to take advantage of the "delete all career stats" feature without having to manually release 400-1000+ players? If that is the only way to take advantage of this feature then I promise I will stop describing it as a 'feature', I understand how frustrating stuff like that can be .

Brad, I am completely with you as far as the priority of fixing all existing issues and any promised enhancements. I am just not positive that is a reasonable expectation for one man (and yes, Markus is still is the only coder). Again, I don't want to appear like a OOTP or Markus apologist, but I am basing these replies partially on my own programming work. Some fixes that seem very simple can take a massive amount of time, and sometimes you don't realize that until you are in the thick of fixing the issue. Also, any changes to the code can result in *new* problems elsewhere so each change is a fairly big deal and needs to be carefully executed/tested. Issues involving hardware or software conflicts can be the most difficult and time consuming to fix IMO, in some cases with OOTP they actually changed the minimum specs as the fix was not time/cost effective (the small monitor res issue with v3).

More about your specific issue: Maybe I am misunderstanding this issue, at 1st I did not even realize the manual workaround (releasing 400-1000+ players) was so arduous, but I am still fairly sure it's an issue that will only effect a small portion of the games users. Note that I could very well be wrong here too, I am not speaking for Markus and I'd be happy to be proved wrong in my interpretation of the fixes/tweaks/enhancements that are reasonable to expect.

I now expect dozens of responses saying: "Killebrew you big jerk, this is the most important OOTP issue there is!" .

[hellfrozeover]

Killebrew you big jerk!!! This is the most important feature in the game!!!! Even more important than the sim engines!!!! Turn on your ratings so I can rate you down!!!!!

[BasicGuy]

first Killebrew I agree with nearly everything you said I can understand where your comeing from. And can see how you can sometimes come off as "apologist for the game"....heck you have to feel kinda close to the game as you do beta test & help out a lot around this board.

Second Killebrew your right Its not a showstopper in the sense that It only affects those who try to use that feature. I'll be honest I have no codeing skilss at all so this beond me. But maybe Peirre could add a button onto his editor for V4 that could mass release & resign players to the same team....then there would be ownly one thing left for the user to do. which Is delete the players historys.

That being said I'll take your post as sarcasm hellfrozeover....Because whats important to one user isnt allways important to another. Heck I've still never used the print feature added In V2. But glad Its there incase I ever want to use It.

Oh and thanks killebrew for not takeing my comments personal....I'll be the first to admit I'm not very good at putting my words to paper(or In this case COmputer ).

Brad

[ 04-05-2002: Message edited by: BasicGuy ]</p>

[Killebrew]

[quote]Originally posted by hellfrozeover:
<strong>Killebrew you big jerk!!! This is the most important feature in the game!!!! Even more important than the sim engines!!!! Turn on your ratings so I can rate you down!!!!! </strong><hr></blockquote>

Haha, my Arnie comebacker: "Noh. YOU are the big jahk, hellfreezeguy."

Seriously, I hope a historical player that has come across the issue described above can comment further on this problem, maybe with a useful workaround. It just seems that something that requires that much work would get a lot of forum responses. I really doubt I'd have the patience to release and resign over 1000 players.

[BasicGuy]

Killebrew If you or anyone want to see this for yourself. Import 1901 or 02...theres ownly about 400 players that year and then hit the delete career stats button on the league setup screen.

Thanks,

Brad

[Killebrew]

[quote]Originally posted by BasicGuy:
<strong>Killebrew If you or anyone want to see this for yourself. Import 1901 or 02...theres ownly about 400 players that year and then hit the delete career stats button on the league setup screen.

Thanks,

Brad</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'll try to look at this in the next few days so I have a better understanding of the issue, thx for the tip.

[hellfrozeover]

[quote]Originally posted by Killebrew:
<strong>

Haha, my Arnie comebacker: "Noh. YOU are the big jahk, hellfreezeguy."

Seriously, I hope a historical player that has come across the issue described above can comment further on this problem, maybe with a useful workaround. It just seems that something that requires that much work would get a lot of forum responses. I really doubt I'd have the patience to release and resign over 1000 players.</strong><hr></blockquote>

BasicGuy - It was sarcasm, and I am glad you took it as such. Sarcasm does not work well with on message boards and sometimes the intent is lost. In addition, I do think this is something to be looked at, I just couldn't resist the temptation to say something irrelevant.

Killebrew - I thought I read somewhere a post by Scott that explained a better workaround for this that involved deleting some player files in the league file. But I could very well be wrong about that.

[BasicGuy]

hellfrozeover I figured It was but sadly as of late theres been a lot more flames on this board I didnt figure you would flame me. Even though I was sort of rude In my first post.

May you have great fortunes in your life time