Giving Cheaters A 2nd Chance

Jason · 09-01-2003, 09:17 AM

Would you as a commish ever give a second chance to a cheater? Over the years the league's I've been in have had to deal with a variety of owners who "stretch" the rules to suit their purposes and some flat out cheaters.

In most cases, we banned them for good but in the case of a few teenagers we just scared the stuffing out of them and gave 'em a second chance and in all but one case they came around and turned into decent owners.

Would it depend on the person in your mind or is everyone nuked the minute they cheat? Does it depend on the kind of cheating they do?

Also...please don't attack anyone by name in this thread...it's meant to be a general discussion but you can use specific examples.

Alan T · 09-01-2003, 09:34 AM

I have chosen not to ever commish any ootp leagues, but I used to administrate large online text games (1500+ users) in the mid-late 90s and we learned a few things about problem players there....

1) Sometimes problem players just made a mistake, or erred on the side of bad judgement. Not necessarily a bad person or a constant thorn in the side.

2) Sometimes players will have purposely and with intent did something wrong, but with time away realize their actions were inappropriate and are more than willing to mend their ways if allowed back in.

3) Sometimes players will take as much rope as you give them, and always hang themselves. You give them 10 chances, they will constantly see how far they can push you, or push the rules.

What we used to do was anytime someone did a serious rule infraction we would suspend their account and put them in a form of a "penalty box". If/when they contacted us, we would talk over their behavior/infraction and if they truly seemed sorry and interested in repaying the game for the wrong they did we would usually re-instate them with the final warning rule. Any infraction they made (even small ones), and they would be permanently gone. No second chances any more. We would make it clear to them and never bend on that. (There were several who tried us).

THe main reasons for second chances in those cases is that you never know someone's identity online.. you don't know if a new player is a legitimate new player, or just some old player who created a new account. It was easier to keep potential problems in front of us rather than guessing at who they were.

And there were many times where problem players became good contributers to the community and were not problems ever again...

Anyhows, just my experience whatever that is worth (I think it + $1.50 will buy you a coke these days.)

Karen Lutz · 09-01-2003, 04:38 PM

It all depends on your moral outlook on life, would you take your wife back if she cheated on you if you knew it was just a 'mistake'?

MLBO · 09-01-2003, 07:41 PM

Good Point

Deft · 09-02-2003, 09:57 AM

Do you consider hiring an estate planner to avoid paying as many taxes as you can and find loopholes in the tax laws?

There is a big difference between players who push the rules or use the rules to their advantage and those that purposely break the rules. Its the difference between lawyers and those they defend. Of course, the question of whether you want lawyers in your league is a whole other issue. Having insight on how to create a winner within the constraints of the league rules is generally how the best teams win.

satchel · 09-02-2003, 10:47 AM

I would certainly consider reaccepting a cheater, but the circumstances are important. In the league I run, I know all the owners, so a cheater couldn’t have multiple teams. That takes away the biggest potential for cheating. It depends on what the other owners think too, I would listen to them in a situation like that. Plus an issue is whether the cheater cheated in another league, or the one you’re thinking about letting them back into.

It’s a thorny issue, and very dependent on the individual circumstances, but I must say that I would consider forgiving a former cheater and letting them play again.

09-01-2003, 09:17 AM	#1
Jason Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,855	Giving Cheaters A 2nd Chance Would you as a commish ever give a second chance to a cheater? Over the years the league's I've been in have had to deal with a variety of owners who "stretch" the rules to suit their purposes and some flat out cheaters. In most cases, we banned them for good but in the case of a few teenagers we just scared the stuffing out of them and gave 'em a second chance and in all but one case they came around and turned into decent owners. Would it depend on the person in your mind or is everyone nuked the minute they cheat? Does it depend on the kind of cheating they do? Also...please don't attack anyone by name in this thread...it's meant to be a general discussion but you can use specific examples.

09-01-2003, 09:34 AM	#2
Alan T All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mass. Posts: 1,963	I have chosen not to ever commish any ootp leagues, but I used to administrate large online text games (1500+ users) in the mid-late 90s and we learned a few things about problem players there.... 1) Sometimes problem players just made a mistake, or erred on the side of bad judgement. Not necessarily a bad person or a constant thorn in the side. 2) Sometimes players will have purposely and with intent did something wrong, but with time away realize their actions were inappropriate and are more than willing to mend their ways if allowed back in. 3) Sometimes players will take as much rope as you give them, and always hang themselves. You give them 10 chances, they will constantly see how far they can push you, or push the rules. What we used to do was anytime someone did a serious rule infraction we would suspend their account and put them in a form of a "penalty box". If/when they contacted us, we would talk over their behavior/infraction and if they truly seemed sorry and interested in repaying the game for the wrong they did we would usually re-instate them with the final warning rule. Any infraction they made (even small ones), and they would be permanently gone. No second chances any more. We would make it clear to them and never bend on that. (There were several who tried us). THe main reasons for second chances in those cases is that you never know someone's identity online.. you don't know if a new player is a legitimate new player, or just some old player who created a new account. It was easier to keep potential problems in front of us rather than guessing at who they were. And there were many times where problem players became good contributers to the community and were not problems ever again... Anyhows, just my experience whatever that is worth (I think it + $1.50 will buy you a coke these days.) __________________ - Front Office Offseason League. (Fast Paced OOTP-X and OOTP11 leagues, sims one season every week)

09-02-2003, 09:57 AM	#5
Deft All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,113	Do you consider hiring an estate planner to avoid paying as many taxes as you can and find loopholes in the tax laws? There is a big difference between players who push the rules or use the rules to their advantage and those that purposely break the rules. Its the difference between lawyers and those they defend. Of course, the question of whether you want lawyers in your league is a whole other issue. Having insight on how to create a winner within the constraints of the league rules is generally how the best teams win. __________________ ATHL Louisville Jockeys (2001-present) 2002, 2007, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2020 World Champions Uniform Template 1.2

09-02-2003, 10:47 AM	#6
satchel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ft Smith Ark. USA Posts: 2,681	I would certainly consider reaccepting a cheater, but the circumstances are important. In the league I run, I know all the owners, so a cheater couldn’t have multiple teams. That takes away the biggest potential for cheating. It depends on what the other owners think too, I would listen to them in a situation like that. Plus an issue is whether the cheater cheated in another league, or the one you’re thinking about letting them back into. It’s a thorny issue, and very dependent on the individual circumstances, but I must say that I would consider forgiving a former cheater and letting them play again. __________________ JL Commish NPBL Rhode Island Reds ’33 ’34 ’35 TCBA San Francisco Railbornes ’74 ’76 ’77 ’78 FL New Orleans Black Sox ’56 ’57 ’58 ’59

09-01-2003, 04:38 PM	#3
Karen Lutz Ball Breaker Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canada OOTPChampionships: 5 Posts: 898	It all depends on your moral outlook on life, would you take your wife back if she cheated on you if you knew it was just a 'mistake'?

09-01-2003, 07:41 PM	#4
MLBO Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 40	Good Point