How To...take care of prospects?

Rockpile · 07-09-2003, 11:36 AM

Can we get some solid ideas/theories on how to take care of prospects to "ensure" ML success.

Anything other than "sign brilliant minor league coaches" would help.

Gastric ReFlux · 07-09-2003, 11:39 AM

First thing is to realize no prospect is a sure success.

Henry · 07-09-2003, 12:27 PM

There is no "ensuring" anything in this case. Even under the best management, there's enough variance in the game to either take down your best prospect, or "immortalize" the guys at 27 who suddenly finds his calling.

General rule of thumb is to make sure he's constantly challenged. In effect, this is what the coaches are doing... watching how he does at the level he's at, with a sprinkling of Talent, Age, and ratings variables.

Just like in real life - you never will know for sure why someone did, or didn't, make it.

Henry

tategter · 07-09-2003, 12:31 PM

Doing the prospect dance and sacrificing a bowl of rocky road ice cream in front of the computer always seems to help.

Seriously, don't move guys up too fast, don't move guys up too slow, and most importantly, keep your fingers and toes crossed.

hukarez · 07-09-2003, 12:39 PM

Hmm...anyone ever had a 'late bloomer'? Such as, players excelling by 31 or so?

Gastric ReFlux · 07-09-2003, 12:41 PM

I've seen a few pitchers who had late blooms.

hukarez · 07-09-2003, 12:43 PM

But not position players, I'm guessing?

amitchell · 07-09-2003, 01:39 PM

Isidoro Herrera was a 3B of mine who came up through the minors with Fair contact ratings but A defense. He was in the organization batting 240/310 through his minor league career. He put up a 206 avg through a full season at 35 and I was ready to cut him loose, but I moved him over to SS and he blossomed. He was an allstar the following year, hitting 334/393/484 w/ 103 RBI. He batted 300 until he retired when I refused to pick up his contract at 39 years of age.

gordyhulten · 07-09-2003, 05:42 PM

It seems like every other 27-year old career minor-leaguer I release is a late bloomer who goes on to have a solid, if unspectacluar career with someone else. :-)

pallison14 · 07-09-2003, 06:08 PM

Harold McVicker in the NGBL got a surprising talent upgrade at 31. He was toiling in AAA with talents of AGGA (with an overall AR of 3), when he got cross the board jumps to GBBG sometime early in the season. He was subsequently traded, but was up to an 8 AR by the end of the season.

http://fragoff.org/ngbl/stats/p2106.html

-p

WLight · 07-09-2003, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gordyhulten
It seems like every other 27-year old career minor-leaguer I release is a late bloomer who goes on to have a solid, if unspectacluar career with someone else.

Same here. Just last week I was marveling at this 3B Esteban Quiros who I signed in 2004 as an FA to a MLC, he didn't make it past AA through 2008 so I released him. Somebody picked him up and in 2010 I was surprised to see him starting against me, I check his ratings and he's suddenly Good/Brilliant/Average. He led the league in HRs that year and posted a solid line in 2011 as well.

IY1981 · 07-09-2003, 07:38 PM

On the topic of "not moving guys up too slowly": what is the best way to go with say, a young pitcher (18 or 19) who is excelling at single-A, but the Minor League Report tells you that he "may need just a bit more time at single-A"? Should you call him up to AA on the strength of his single-A stats, or do you go by the Minor League Report and keep him at single-A (and seeing as he's really young anyways)? "Scouts" are turned off, by the way, so the Minor League Report should be pretty accurate (?).

Thanks!

andjbock · 07-09-2003, 08:21 PM

i usually let a guy (especially pitchers) have 2 years at A, 1 year at AA, , and then 1 year at AAA. By this point he is 24-26 and should be ready for the bigs. One problem i usuallly encounter is that "Avoiding runs" never rises up above 3 by the time i move them to the bigs. This is a problem. A second year of AAA may be necessary. My pitching staff is now comprised of 2 home grown talents, very good pitchers. yet i also have to go out and get free agents each year, because my 27-28 year old "prospects" are wasting away in AAA. though when injuries come into play. These guys fill in well. I will loose most of my AAA staff at the end of the season, and i bet they will find a job as a starter on another team.....true prospects will almost blossom overnight "off season"

hitters on the other hand, take dramatic jumps in ratings in the off season. manny espinoza, my 2B is a 22 year old rookie who is a 7 is most categories. he's hitting 230 1 13 through 25 games, but has will be an all-star eventually. rob richardson was a throw in at last year's trading deadline and he jumped from 7-9 in hits and 3-9 in HR. anyone on the top prospects list, uausally pulls their weight

amitchell · 07-09-2003, 09:01 PM

I seem to have plenty of guys who I lose track of and let flounder in AA. When I realize I have them, I kick out the guys who seem beyond repair (i.e., have P ratings in anything significant) and try to figure out how to rehab the still half decent ones.

Occasionally I pull a guy out of mediocrity. 'Course, was me who let that 28th pick in the draft flop about at AA.

How about this? Michael Toronjo, my 4 1/2 star A-armed catcher currently hitting 333/383/472 through 2/3's of a season was the 205th pick, coming in the 7th round of 2004. He came to me and made it up as a back-up. In 4 years, his OPS went 515, 615, 760, 855 with marked increases in HR and 2B numbers this season, his contract year...

[edit: forgot to make the Piazza connection]

andjbock · 07-09-2003, 09:13 PM

i like to keep my AA roster at 25ish so everybody gets to play....i've noticed that prospects who dont get much PT on my 40 man roster A team go from "prospect" to "average"

Ervinmagicsmall · 07-09-2003, 09:22 PM

I err on the side of caution. I wait until my scouts tell me that the player is definitely ready for the next level--at least for the AA and AAA promotions. I then base the decision to promote to the majors based on ratings/AAA stats.

Rene · 07-09-2003, 09:44 PM

I dont pay too much attention to this part of the game. The numbers game, as many good prospects as possible, seems to work best for me. Trade, trade, trade old wood for prospects and let them work their way up through the system. Most often the pitchers in my minor league don't seem to develop with this system until their mid-20s. Don't know if this is common.

WLight · 07-10-2003, 12:27 PM

In my experience it's pointless to have a guy who doesn't play in the minors. So I try never to have more than 8 or 9 hitters at each level. I definitely don't wait around for my scouts to tell me a guy is ready. I mainly let the stats dictate my minor league management. I almost never promote a hitter to AA until he has a >0 rating in hits. I also promote guys based on age -- if I have a 22 or 23 year old still lounging in A, I kick him up to AA and it's basically sink or swim -- if he doesn't put up halfway decent stats I give him a little more time in A and then boot him.

jaxmagicman · 07-10-2003, 12:36 PM

I like the auto minor league button. Hehe.

KurtBevacqua · 07-10-2003, 03:10 PM

Article from the Akron Beacon Journal this morning. Cleveland 3B Casey Blake is the real life version of the OOTP late career bloomer. Reads like one of the stories someone might put up over in the Dynasties post. Just wonder how many points his ratings were boosted in the middle of the season. Further proof that these things really do happen in real life.

CLEVELAND - Is Casey Blake the diamond in the rough that every general manager hopes to find?

As spring training was winding down, he was anointed the Indians' regular third baseman, as General Manager Mark Shapiro repeatedly announced that not all the pieces of his championship puzzle would be in place this year.

It was a pointed reference to third base, where prospects are still clawing their way up the Tribe farm system. That is not a knock on Shapiro. After all, who knew? Blake was a career utility player with the reputation of being a solid citizen in the clubhouse.

Wednesday night, he was batting in the cleanup spot against the Yankees.

``I've never batted third or fourth before,'' Casey said. ``But I'm not going to do anything different. I don't think it matters where I hit. An opposing pitcher has a plan on how to pitch an individual, not a particular spot in the batting order.''

As far as doing anything different, Blake began doing that on June 17. Since then, he has batted .387 with seven doubles, eight homers, 17 runs and 20 RBI.

In those 18 starts, he has raised his batting average from .234 to .276, hit all but two of his home runs, produced 56 percent of his RBI and scored 41 percent of his runs.

``I'm not surprised about what I've done so far,'' Blake said. ``But there's a lot of games left, and I have to try and get better and stay confident. This is a tough game. You have to battle every game.''

If Blake continues to produce, at age 30 (Aug. 23), he will have had a breakout season that could have serious career implications.

Until this year, Blake never had played more than 19 big-league games in a season. But with no immediate phenom on the horizon, Blake could return as the regular third baseman in 2004, and maybe beyond.

``I try not to dwell on that, because it's only midseason,'' Blake said. ``I don't think it's too healthy to think about that. It really doesn't do me any good. Life and this game have a way of sneaking up and kicking you in the butt.''

Which is pretty much what he has done to the Tribe's deep-thinkers.

07-09-2003, 11:36 AM	#1
Rockpile All Star Reserve Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 620	How To...take care of prospects? Can we get some solid ideas/theories on how to take care of prospects to "ensure" ML success. Anything other than "sign brilliant minor league coaches" would help.

07-09-2003, 05:42 PM	#9
gordyhulten All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Champaign, IL Posts: 1,175	It seems like every other 27-year old career minor-leaguer I release is a late bloomer who goes on to have a solid, if unspectacluar career with someone else. :-) __________________ Gordy Hulten Owner / General Manager Red Willow Roadrunners -- Kennel Series Champions: 1951, 1959, 1964, 1965, 1972, 1975, 1980, 1982, 1983 Dog Days Baseball - "The World's Best Online OOTP League" Creator inactive: Republican League - OOTP 2009 Dynasty inactive: Republican League Dynasty - Version 2.0 inactive: Republican League Dynasty

07-09-2003, 06:08 PM	#10
pallison14 Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 452	Harold McVicker in the NGBL got a surprising talent upgrade at 31. He was toiling in AAA with talents of AGGA (with an overall AR of 3), when he got cross the board jumps to GBBG sometime early in the season. He was subsequently traded, but was up to an 8 AR by the end of the season. http://fragoff.org/ngbl/stats/p2106.html -p __________________ Commissioner, NGBL - Putting the FUNK in defunct. New York (AL), UBL

07-09-2003, 09:44 PM	#17
Rene Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Midwest Posts: 52	Prospects I dont pay too much attention to this part of the game. The numbers game, as many good prospects as possible, seems to work best for me. Trade, trade, trade old wood for prospects and let them work their way up through the system. Most often the pitchers in my minor league don't seem to develop with this system until their mid-20s. Don't know if this is common. __________________ There is no shame in losing, but there is glory in winning.

07-10-2003, 12:36 PM	#19
jaxmagicman Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Retired defloration-maker living in Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 7,801	I like the auto minor league button. Hehe. __________________ See ID Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

07-09-2003, 11:39 AM	#2
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	First thing is to realize no prospect is a sure success.

07-09-2003, 12:27 PM	#3
Henry Hall of Fame Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,498	There is no "ensuring" anything in this case. Even under the best management, there's enough variance in the game to either take down your best prospect, or "immortalize" the guys at 27 who suddenly finds his calling. General rule of thumb is to make sure he's constantly challenged. In effect, this is what the coaches are doing... watching how he does at the level he's at, with a sprinkling of Talent, Age, and ratings variables. Just like in real life - you never will know for sure why someone did, or didn't, make it. Henry

07-09-2003, 12:31 PM	#4
tategter Minors (Single A) Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 67	Doing the prospect dance and sacrificing a bowl of rocky road ice cream in front of the computer always seems to help. Seriously, don't move guys up too fast, don't move guys up too slow, and most importantly, keep your fingers and toes crossed.

07-09-2003, 12:39 PM	#5
hukarez Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 113	Hmm...anyone ever had a 'late bloomer'? Such as, players excelling by 31 or so?

07-09-2003, 12:41 PM	#6
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	I've seen a few pitchers who had late blooms.

07-09-2003, 12:43 PM	#7
hukarez Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 113	But not position players, I'm guessing?

07-09-2003, 01:39 PM	#8
amitchell Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 61	Isidoro Herrera was a 3B of mine who came up through the minors with Fair contact ratings but A defense. He was in the organization batting 240/310 through his minor league career. He put up a 206 avg through a full season at 35 and I was ready to cut him loose, but I moved him over to SS and he blossomed. He was an allstar the following year, hitting 334/393/484 w/ 103 RBI. He batted 300 until he retired when I refused to pick up his contract at 39 years of age.

07-09-2003, 07:38 PM	#12
IY1981 Bat Boy Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 10	On the topic of "not moving guys up too slowly": what is the best way to go with say, a young pitcher (18 or 19) who is excelling at single-A, but the Minor League Report tells you that he "may need just a bit more time at single-A"? Should you call him up to AA on the strength of his single-A stats, or do you go by the Minor League Report and keep him at single-A (and seeing as he's really young anyways)? "Scouts" are turned off, by the way, so the Minor League Report should be pretty accurate (?). Thanks!

07-09-2003, 08:21 PM	#13
andjbock Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Somerville, MA, USA Bats: Right Throws: Left Posts: 3,640	i usually let a guy (especially pitchers) have 2 years at A, 1 year at AA, , and then 1 year at AAA. By this point he is 24-26 and should be ready for the bigs. One problem i usuallly encounter is that "Avoiding runs" never rises up above 3 by the time i move them to the bigs. This is a problem. A second year of AAA may be necessary. My pitching staff is now comprised of 2 home grown talents, very good pitchers. yet i also have to go out and get free agents each year, because my 27-28 year old "prospects" are wasting away in AAA. though when injuries come into play. These guys fill in well. I will loose most of my AAA staff at the end of the season, and i bet they will find a job as a starter on another team.....true prospects will almost blossom overnight "off season" hitters on the other hand, take dramatic jumps in ratings in the off season. manny espinoza, my 2B is a 22 year old rookie who is a 7 is most categories. he's hitting 230 1 13 through 25 games, but has will be an all-star eventually. rob richardson was a throw in at last year's trading deadline and he jumped from 7-9 in hits and 3-9 in HR. anyone on the top prospects list, uausally pulls their weight

07-09-2003, 09:01 PM	#14
amitchell Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 61	I seem to have plenty of guys who I lose track of and let flounder in AA. When I realize I have them, I kick out the guys who seem beyond repair (i.e., have P ratings in anything significant) and try to figure out how to rehab the still half decent ones. Occasionally I pull a guy out of mediocrity. 'Course, was me who let that 28th pick in the draft flop about at AA. How about this? Michael Toronjo, my 4 1/2 star A-armed catcher currently hitting 333/383/472 through 2/3's of a season was the 205th pick, coming in the 7th round of 2004. He came to me and made it up as a back-up. In 4 years, his OPS went 515, 615, 760, 855 with marked increases in HR and 2B numbers this season, his contract year... [edit: forgot to make the Piazza connection]

07-09-2003, 09:13 PM	#15
andjbock Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Somerville, MA, USA Bats: Right Throws: Left Posts: 3,640	i like to keep my AA roster at 25ish so everybody gets to play....i've noticed that prospects who dont get much PT on my 40 man roster A team go from "prospect" to "average"

07-09-2003, 09:22 PM	#16
Ervinmagicsmall Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Illinoiz Posts: 67	I err on the side of caution. I wait until my scouts tell me that the player is definitely ready for the next level--at least for the AA and AAA promotions. I then base the decision to promote to the majors based on ratings/AAA stats.

07-10-2003, 12:27 PM	#18
WLight Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: CA Posts: 314	In my experience it's pointless to have a guy who doesn't play in the minors. So I try never to have more than 8 or 9 hitters at each level. I definitely don't wait around for my scouts to tell me a guy is ready. I mainly let the stats dictate my minor league management. I almost never promote a hitter to AA until he has a >0 rating in hits. I also promote guys based on age -- if I have a 22 or 23 year old still lounging in A, I kick him up to AA and it's basically sink or swim -- if he doesn't put up halfway decent stats I give him a little more time in A and then boot him.

07-10-2003, 03:10 PM	#20
KurtBevacqua Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 2,968	Article from the Akron Beacon Journal this morning. Cleveland 3B Casey Blake is the real life version of the OOTP late career bloomer. Reads like one of the stories someone might put up over in the Dynasties post. Just wonder how many points his ratings were boosted in the middle of the season. Further proof that these things really do happen in real life. CLEVELAND - Is Casey Blake the diamond in the rough that every general manager hopes to find? As spring training was winding down, he was anointed the Indians' regular third baseman, as General Manager Mark Shapiro repeatedly announced that not all the pieces of his championship puzzle would be in place this year. It was a pointed reference to third base, where prospects are still clawing their way up the Tribe farm system. That is not a knock on Shapiro. After all, who knew? Blake was a career utility player with the reputation of being a solid citizen in the clubhouse. Wednesday night, he was batting in the cleanup spot against the Yankees. ``I've never batted third or fourth before,'' Casey said. ``But I'm not going to do anything different. I don't think it matters where I hit. An opposing pitcher has a plan on how to pitch an individual, not a particular spot in the batting order.'' As far as doing anything different, Blake began doing that on June 17. Since then, he has batted .387 with seven doubles, eight homers, 17 runs and 20 RBI. In those 18 starts, he has raised his batting average from .234 to .276, hit all but two of his home runs, produced 56 percent of his RBI and scored 41 percent of his runs. ``I'm not surprised about what I've done so far,'' Blake said. ``But there's a lot of games left, and I have to try and get better and stay confident. This is a tough game. You have to battle every game.'' If Blake continues to produce, at age 30 (Aug. 23), he will have had a breakout season that could have serious career implications. Until this year, Blake never had played more than 19 big-league games in a season. But with no immediate phenom on the horizon, Blake could return as the regular third baseman in 2004, and maybe beyond. ``I try not to dwell on that, because it's only midseason,'' Blake said. ``I don't think it's too healthy to think about that. It really doesn't do me any good. Life and this game have a way of sneaking up and kicking you in the butt.'' Which is pretty much what he has done to the Tribe's deep-thinkers. __________________ "The type and formula of most schemes of philanthropy or humanitarianism is this: A and B put their heads together to decide what C shall be made to do for D. The radical vice of all these schemes, from a sociological point of view, is that C is not allowed a voice in the matter, and his position, character, and interests, as well as the ultimate effects on society through C's interests, are entirely overlooked. I call C the Forgotten Man" - William Graham Sumner