"Big Game Pitchers"

GForce22 · 06-25-2003, 03:20 PM

Curious, given the theory that clutch hitting is a myth...what about clutch pitching? I mean, the arguement over clutch hitting has been gone over time and time again, but nobody raises an issue when someone talks about big game (read Clutch) pitchers. Why? Is there more validity to the big game pitcher idea than the clutch hitting idea?

Just curious as to the perception on this one.

Discuss.

GH

Codered · 06-25-2003, 03:28 PM

John Smoltz has been pretty clutch after becoming a closer.

GForce22 · 06-25-2003, 04:45 PM

So was he clutch before that?

GH

Long_Long_Name · 06-25-2003, 04:52 PM

I think most people consider clutch altogether to be a myth. Except in Rick Monday's case.

AnotherAlias · 06-25-2003, 04:56 PM

Jack Morris was one of the clutchiest pitchers that DOESN'T belong in the HOF.

Eric · 06-25-2003, 05:14 PM

I think the Diamondbacks reliever, Kim, isn't much of a clutch reliever. Just ask the Yankees.

BleedingCubbyBlue · 06-25-2003, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eric
I think the Diamondbacks reliever, Kim, isn't much of a clutch reliever. Just ask the Yankees.

That's because he's a starter for the Red Sox.

Plutoro · 06-25-2003, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BleedingCubbyBlue
That's because he's a starter for the Red Sox.

thank you captain obvious

i think there is cluth pitching and hitting but im in the minority

JAttractive · 06-25-2003, 06:05 PM

I don't believe in clutch hitting though I don't entirely dismiss it as every study I have seen still leaves a shred of doubt. If I had to bet though I would say there is about a 95% chance there is no such thing in major league baseball (not necessarily true for non-professionals).

Clutch pitching though is a bit different in my mind though. I don't necessarily believe a pitcher can elevate his game in the clutch but I believe pitchers will change their approach. Perhaps they hold back to pace themselves a bit when the game isn't on the line and so in clutch situations it appears they are elevating their game. Also in non-pressure situations good pitchers may be trying to fool the hitters a bit by not showing them their true stuff, pitching them a bit different to cross them up later when it matters etc.

It wouldn't surprise me though to read a study that suggests this does not exist either.

BleedingCubbyBlue · 06-26-2003, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Plutoro
thank you captain obvious

i think there is cluth pitching and hitting but im in the minority

Well, apparently Eric had missed that fact, so I was clearing it up. Thanks for being an ass.

Plutoro · 06-26-2003, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BleedingCubbyBlue
Thanks for being an ass.

Any time

Eric · 06-26-2003, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BleedingCubbyBlue
Well, apparently Eric had missed that fact, so I was clearing it up.

I didn't realize that Kim was converted to a starter in Boston. I was referring to him as a closer for the Diamondbacks had a 5.94 ERA in the post-season. My point is that while there are people that are perceived to do well in the clutch, there are also that do not do well in the clutch.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/k/kimby01.shtml

MannyTrillo · 06-27-2003, 03:23 AM

Good points by JAttractive.

I would be very surprised if there is no such thing as "clutch pitching." IMO, the evidence against the existence of clutch hitting is very convincing, but it seems pretty clear to me that clutch performers do exist in other sports. My guess would be that hitting a baseball requires such finely honed motor skills that in order to be successful as a professional you have to be able to perform without being affected by nerves. Unless your body is immune to stress, you won't make it as a hitter in the big leagues. The same thing is not true with regards to playing football, basketball, etc., and there's no reason why it should be true about pitching either.

06-25-2003, 03:20 PM	#1
GForce22 Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,654	"Big Game Pitchers" Curious, given the theory that clutch hitting is a myth...what about clutch pitching? I mean, the arguement over clutch hitting has been gone over time and time again, but nobody raises an issue when someone talks about big game (read Clutch) pitchers. Why? Is there more validity to the big game pitcher idea than the clutch hitting idea? Just curious as to the perception on this one. Discuss. GH

06-25-2003, 04:52 PM	#4
Long_Long_Name Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Montréal Posts: 7,065	I think most people consider clutch altogether to be a myth. Except in Rick Monday's case. __________________ Beta Baseball. Join it!

06-27-2003, 03:23 AM	#13
MannyTrillo All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 664	Good points by JAttractive. I would be very surprised if there is no such thing as "clutch pitching." IMO, the evidence against the existence of clutch hitting is very convincing, but it seems pretty clear to me that clutch performers do exist in other sports. My guess would be that hitting a baseball requires such finely honed motor skills that in order to be successful as a professional you have to be able to perform without being affected by nerves. Unless your body is immune to stress, you won't make it as a hitter in the big leagues. The same thing is not true with regards to playing football, basketball, etc., and there's no reason why it should be true about pitching either. __________________ Poster emeritus "Not butchery, dining!!" obt sk cmh ct President, A-1 Aces OT Posting Club Click here to join

06-25-2003, 03:28 PM	#2
Codered Bat Boy Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 18	John Smoltz has been pretty clutch after becoming a closer.

06-25-2003, 04:45 PM	#3
GForce22 Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,654	So was he clutch before that? GH

06-25-2003, 04:56 PM	#5
AnotherAlias Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I'm back...for now Posts: 4,190	Jack Morris was one of the clutchiest pitchers that DOESN'T belong in the HOF.

06-25-2003, 05:14 PM	#6
Eric All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: Folsom, CA Posts: 1,234	I think the Diamondbacks reliever, Kim, isn't much of a clutch reliever. Just ask the Yankees.

06-25-2003, 06:05 PM	#9
JAttractive All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Catharines, Ontario Posts: 1,135	I don't believe in clutch hitting though I don't entirely dismiss it as every study I have seen still leaves a shred of doubt. If I had to bet though I would say there is about a 95% chance there is no such thing in major league baseball (not necessarily true for non-professionals). Clutch pitching though is a bit different in my mind though. I don't necessarily believe a pitcher can elevate his game in the clutch but I believe pitchers will change their approach. Perhaps they hold back to pace themselves a bit when the game isn't on the line and so in clutch situations it appears they are elevating their game. Also in non-pressure situations good pitchers may be trying to fool the hitters a bit by not showing them their true stuff, pitching them a bit different to cross them up later when it matters etc. It wouldn't surprise me though to read a study that suggests this does not exist either.