How to separate and move Franchise history

[84Cubs]

At one point I moved the A’s to Vegas and renamed the team from the A’s to something else.

I would like to give Oakland an expansion team and separate the 50+ years of Oakland history and add it to this expansion A’s and leave the recent 6 years of Vegas history with the Vegas franchise.

What is the simplest way to do this? I am on 24.

Thanks

[twins_34]

Originally Posted by 84Cubs

At one point I moved the A’s to Vegas and renamed the team from the A’s to something else.

I would like to give Oakland an expansion team and separate the 50+ years of Oakland history and add it to this expansion A’s and leave the recent 6 years of Vegas history with the Vegas franchise.

What is the simplest way to do this? I am on 24.

Thanks

That's not how teams work... Like as in, the Nationals, they can't claim all the years the Minnesota Twins were the Washington Senators and the Twins didn't just reset their history, they claim everything since 1901. The Nationals were the Expos and the Nationals. The New Brewers can't claim the time when the Baltimore Orioles were in Milwaukee. The new Brewers started as the Seattle Pilots. The A's, they claim ALL the way back to the Philadelphia Athletics, Kansas City Athletics, and so on. So the Las Vegas team still has the history of the Athletics.

So, you can't do what you are asking. It is not possible and honestly, like I said, teams don't just erase their history and New expansion teams do not take over the history of the old teams.

[Rain King]

This isn't unprecedented in pro sports. The Cleveland Browns full history remains with their current team despite the gap in years and the fact that the actual franchise moved to Baltimore (but did not bring their history with them).

However, it is correct that there is not any way to do this within OOTP itself after the fact, much less a simple way.

[LansdowneSt]

I can't think of a way to do it in a forward running save. For historical, the Franchise ID (franchID) in the Teams.csv file ties the team iterations together and that file is editable.

What the OP is asking isn't unheard of in sports though. The Cleveland Browns kept their records when the team became the Ravens. Then when the Browns expansion team arrived, the NFL tacked on the old Browns records to that new franchise.

EDIT: Beat me to it Rain King :P

[twins_34]

Originally Posted by Rain King

This isn't unprecedented in pro sports. The Cleveland Browns full history remains with their current team despite the gap in years and the fact that the actual franchise moved to Baltimore (but did not bring their history with them).

However, it is correct that there is not any way to do this within OOTP itself after the fact, much less a simple way.

It's because, "technically" the way the NFL did this was, the NFL brokered a compromise between Modell and Cleveland and as part of the compromise model agreed to return the Browns franchise to Cleveland and then NFL granted him a new franchise in Baltimore. The Browns were then deactivated for three years from 1996 to 1998 and then returned in 1999 soooooooooooooo, no the Browns are still the original browns even though all the players went to Baltimore. This was a WHOLE new situation that had never been done before, which is almost kinda like what the OP wants to do.

[84Cubs]

Originally Posted by twins_34

It's because, "technically" the way the NFL did this was, the NFL brokered a compromise between Modell and Cleveland and as part of the compromise model agreed to return the Browns franchise to Cleveland and then NFL granted him a new franchise in Baltimore. The Browns were then deactivated for three years from 1996 to 1998 and then returned in 1999 soooooooooooooo, no the Browns are still the original browns even though all the players went to Baltimore. This was a WHOLE new situation that had never been done before, which is almost kinda like what the OP wants to do.

Not sure what you’re arguing. This was recently done in the NHL with the coyotes being sold and moved to become a new team in SLC with the old nickname being abandoned. The Sonics history moved to OKC but i believe the city owns the name. What i want to do is unprecedented in the way i want to do it, but this is OOTP. I could see something like i want to do being argued once Seattle gets the sonics back.

Also, your example of the nationals claiming the history of the senators or the brewers claiming when the orioles were in milwaukee isn’t exactly applicable to what I’m talking about.

[LansdowneSt]

I think you want to look at the in-game Team Editor page and the Franchise ID.

The problem is that I don't know how to handle the retroactive part of it (those six years). It is possible that when the A's moved to Vegas, had that franchise ID then been changed, it would have resulted in the players on the team, etc. becoming the Vegas A's but logging going-forward records as a new team because at that point you could have changed that tag (and the team tag) from OAK to LVS. Then with OAK having ended and years passing, when the new Expansion team came in, you could have edited it to have the OAK IDs versus whatever the game assigned it. So, there would be a gap, like the Cleveland Browns had, but things might, in an almanac way, still tally everything under the OAK tag of the franchise.

You might want to start a new save (so as not to mess up your main save trying stuff) and see if that would have worked. If it does, great. Now you know for the future.... but I fear so many records from those six years already have OAK on them that you couldn't take the time to fix them.

Sorry, i couldn't be more helpful and don't have the time to test that theory out myself atm.

[twins_34]

Originally Posted by 84Cubs

Not sure what you’re arguing. This was recently done in the NHL with the coyotes being sold and moved to become a new team in SLC with the old nickname being abandoned. The Sonics history moved to OKC but i believe the city owns the name. What i want to do is unprecedented in the way i want to do it, but this is OOTP. I could see something like i want to do being argued once Seattle gets the sonics back.

Also, your example of the nationals claiming the history of the senators or the brewers claiming when the orioles were in milwaukee isn’t exactly applicable to what I’m talking about.

I am not arguing, I was stating a fact and fixing a misconception of what was said about the Browns and Ravens. Also, they consider what happened to the Arizona Coyotes and Utah to be very similar to what happened between the Browns and the Ravens.

It subsequently emerged that the Utah club was considered an expansion team, not a relocated Coyotes team. In a deal that effectively split the Coyotes franchise in half, Smith acquired the Coyotes' player contracts, hockey operations staff, and draft picks while the Coyotes went "dormant" pending a permanent arena. This move was similar to the Cleveland Browns and Baltimore Ravens of the National Football League (NFL), with the Coyotes continuing minor business operations, mostly focused on finding a new arena.

So Utah, like the Ravens, became an expansion team and Arizona (Old Winnipeg Jets) has been deactivated for the time being.

That being said, I will now bow out because, editing game files could cause issues and I for sure do not want to be the blame of you losing a long term save if something gets corrupted. But, stating facts and fixing someone's error, my man, is not arguing. Just saying. Maybe what Lands said could work.

[twins_34]

1. Actually, To make this easy, go under league settings, make a placeholder Minor League Division (Just call it deactivated or something). This is where you will move the Oakland A's to but AFTER you move all players. You can delete all the other teams in the league cause you will not need them. Make sure to unaffiliate the league from the MLB. Make sure you go into Options in the new league and set games to 0 and disable playoffs, this way Oakland wont play any games while disabled.

2. Under League & Teams (under the MLB), click edit league structure, create the new team in Las Vegas (not doing it as a expansion team this way)

3. Move all players from Oakland to Las Vegas you will have to also make new minor league teams for the Las Vegas team or you could also just affiliate the current minors league teams to Las Vegas, but that means when you bring back Oakland, you would have to make new minor league teams for them then. Up to you on how you want to do this.

4. Once all players are swapped, move Oakland, by once again going into Leagues and Teams, click edit league structure, and then click on the "Move team to" button and move them into that disabled league and let them sit there for however many seasons you want before you bring them back. Now, understand, it will be hard to bring them back as an expansion team, so you will want to just fill them with fictional players do that however you want.

This is the best way and probably the most easy way to try and get what you want. Las Vegas will be considered like an expansion team, but has all the old Oakland Players and when you bring Oakland back, it will have missed however many seasons, but keep all the original history.

I have not tested this, so test it in a new save to see if it gives you the outcome you want.

[84Cubs]

Originally Posted by twins_34

That being said, I will now bow out because, editing game files could cause issues and I for sure do not want to be the blame of you losing a long term save if something gets corrupted. But, stating facts and fixing someone's error, my man, is not arguing. Just saying. Maybe what Lands said could work.

I appreciate your feedback and I agree it would be silly to risk ruining my save. I'll probably just move Vegas back to Oakland and create a expansion team for Vegas.



The point of my post was whether there was a easy way to do it but giving the unusual nature of my request I kind of figured the answer was "no".

[uruguru]

Originally Posted by twins_34

This is the best way and probably the most easy way to try and get what you want. Las Vegas will be considered like an expansion team, but has all the old Oakland Players and when you bring Oakland back, it will have missed however many seasons, but keep all the original history.

Yeah, this is how you mothball a franchise instead of moving it. Just put it in a league with no schedule.

[RMc]

Arizona (Old Winnipeg Jets) has been deactivated for the time being.

If the Coyotes never re-enter the NHL, they'll be the first major league sports team to entirely vanish since the Cleveland Barons (also of the NHL) who merged with the Minnesota North Stars in 1978. (And by "merged", we mean the Barons gave the North Stars all their good players and then went out of business.)

[Mancandy]

Originally Posted by twins_34

I am not arguing, I was stating a fact and fixing a misconception of what was said about the Browns and Ravens. Also, they consider what happened to the Arizona Coyotes and Utah to be very similar to what happened between the Browns and the Ravens.

So Utah, like the Ravens, became an expansion team and Arizona (Old Winnipeg Jets) has been deactivated for the time being.

That being said, I will now bow out because, editing game files could cause issues and I for sure do not want to be the blame of you losing a long term save if something gets corrupted. But, stating facts and fixing someone's error, my man, is not arguing. Just saying. Maybe what Lands said could work.

I think the issue is there was no misconception and you didn't fix anything, you just restated exactly what the person you were replying to said with a little more (unnecessary and irrelevant) context. So phrasing it in a way that makes it sound like you're correcting them, and then falsely claiming you "fixed a misconception" when you did no such thing, sounds like arguing. (Arguing over what is and isn't arguing is some next level irony, though.)

Originally Posted by 84Cubs

Not sure what you’re arguing. This was recently done in the NHL with the coyotes being sold and moved to become a new team in SLC with the old nickname being abandoned. The Sonics history moved to OKC but i believe the city owns the name. What i want to do is unprecedented in the way i want to do it, but this is OOTP. I could see something like i want to do being argued once Seattle gets the sonics back.

Also, your example of the nationals claiming the history of the senators or the brewers claiming when the orioles were in milwaukee isn’t exactly applicable to what I’m talking about.

Even doing it exactly the way you want is not unprecedented, it sounds like you're describing exactly what the NBA did with the Charlotte Hornets and New Orleans Pelicans. The Charlotte Hornets entered the NBA in 1988-89, then relocated and became the New Orleans Hornets starting in 2002-03 and took their entire history with them. An expansion team was granted to Charlotte to start in 2004-05 named the Bobcats with none of the original Hornets' history, which was still in New Orleans. Then the New Orleans Hornets renamed themselves the Pelicans in 2013, the Charlotte Bobcats became the Hornets in 2014, and Pelicans gave the history of the original Hornets from their Charlotte days back to Charlotte. So the NBA retroactively made the New Orleans franchise an expansion team that started in 2002 and the Charlotte franchise from 1998-2002 and 2004-present is now considered the same franchise.

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

I can't think of a way to do it in a forward running save. For historical, the Franchise ID (franchID) in the Teams.csv file ties the team iterations together and that file is editable.

Is there anything else that ties them together? I just tried changing the franchID for the Montreal Expos seasons to see if it would separate their records from the Nationals but it looks like they're still showing up in Washington's history...

[LansdowneSt]

Yeah, you can't retroactively change it. The league history has either been loaded at game creation (the Wizard toggle box) or, if a standard game, it's pre-loaded. In a historical game, you can have more impact on the going-forward years.

So, a player has a stat line that says "BRO" and if you are importing to historical team, instead of having a draft each year, the game looks to put him on the BRO team. The records/stats for Brooklyn fall under the franchise of LAD so they stay with the team when 1958 comes and going forward. If you are a fan of an AL team you may have noticed that some, say, Red Sox records, actually belong to 19th c. players on Louisville. In real life those teams have no relationship. Louisville should die and the Red Sox start fresh in 1901 but for gameplay purposes, the team evolves into the Red Sox, same as Brooklyn seamlessly becomes the LA Dodgers.

At this point, I'll pause and mention there are two Team.csv files. One wrapped up inside the histroical.database.odb and one outside of it. The one inside sets up the game. For the future years, the one outside can be altered because that is the one that the game checks in each subsequent season. Folks may remember that the alt Teams.csv that did a find/replace on Guardians for Indians only changed the outside file - so your first year, on Day One you had to make manual change of the name in the Team Settings but thereafter auto-evolution of the league referenced the amended Teams.csv with "Indians" in it.

So, if I wanted a timebreak for Montreal, I think I would experiment with having the Teams.csv the same through Montreal's last season but where the 2005 line says WAS and then WSN (the same as the MON franchise), I'd change that WSN and all subsequent franchise IDs for the Nats as WDC or some new (not previously used) franchise ID. Keep the WAS so that it gets Ryan Zimmerman etc. if playing with "Import to real team" on. My hope would be that the WAS code is disassociated with the WSN code and is only ever tagged to WDC. Now, what happens if you play from 2004 to 2005? I guess we could find out, but I think all the Montreal players from 2004 get released as FA and it will do an expansion draft for a single team, the new Nationals. Then I'd pick a year I want the Expos to come back and add them back with MON and WSN in the Teams.csv file, add another fictional team too that year to balance the schedule, and let them expand because you have tricked the game into thinking this is a historical expansion. Say we chose 2022 as that year. The real test would be if the game sees the MON and WSN IDs again and those old records tie back in despite the break.

It would be interesting to see if that worked and maybe I will when time permits. Just remember to save a copy of your Teams.csv and put it to the side to restore when you want to play a regular, not alt-Montreal verse again. Also, as I said, not sure what happens once you get to current year and thereafter. My experience is deeper in historical alt universes.