Understanding abbreviations structure

justtxyank · 10-29-2024, 01:10 PM

I'm attempting to determine how the game assigns a team's abbreviation in the stats.

I've looked at the updated database and I can't make sense of why one team is listed one way and another is not.

In the "teams" database in the stats folder, each team for each year has a teamID, franchID, teamIDBR, teamIDlahman45 and teamIDret.

I assumed the game was pulling ONE of these each time.

The Brewers are listed as ML4 / MIL / MIL/ MIL/MIL respectively, so I assumed that teamID is where the game determines how it is listed.

However, the Yankees are listed as NYA / NYY / NYY / NYA / NYA in those same fields, yet appears as NYY in historical stats and game setup.

Does anyone know which ID actually determines how the team is identified? I'm working on an "adjusted" database that listed the historical teams that appear with a number as their correct abbreviations, but short of simply editing every single appearance in each excel file, I can't figure out the way to do it. I'm certainly willing to train a model to just fix each spreadsheet manually, but I'd rather NOT touch the historical stats databases if you just need to fix the correction on one specific sheet.

justtxyank · 10-29-2024, 01:15 PM

Another example:

The minor league MiLBTeams file has an affiliation column that ties it to a franchise from the database. On that column, it lists the Franchise/AffiliationID as NYA for the Yankees and ML4 for the Brewers, but again, on the actual teams spreadsheet, the franchise id for the Yankees is NYY.

thehef · 10-29-2024, 02:13 PM

I don't have an answer, but I'm a big fan of you asking this because it's a murky area where answers have been hard to come by. A few comments from the perspective of editing these values in the teams.csv file:

1) If you want to edit values in this file & several others, note that when OOTP initially creates your game, its "game creation program" (for lack of a better term) includes all of the structural data for MLB (and minor leagues & teams if you've enabled those) for that initial season; files such as this one and others are not referenced for that initial season, however, they are for all subsequent years. For example, if you modify this file and you start a game with the 1910 season, the 1910 season will not include any of your changes. OOTP will include your changes by referencing the file when it transitions from the 1910 postseason to the 1910-11 offseason (this occurs after the World Series, usually occurs in mid-to-late October). And so your changes will be reflected for the 1911 season.

2) I don't like some of the abbreviations (who ever looked at a sports section and saw that Hank Aaron was on ML1 or some other guy was on KC1?). I like "normal" abbreviations like you would see in a newspaper, although I understand the need for the more cryptic ones under the hood. So with that said...

3) I've done testing and found that if you change NY1 (for the NY Giants) to NYG, OOTP is good with that. But if you instead change it to NYN it doesn't like it and will change it to NYM. Strange.

So it's a bit of mystery. Hoping we'll get an answer in this thread

justtxyank · 10-29-2024, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehef

3) I've done testing and found that if you change NY1 (for the NY Giants) to NYG, OOTP is good with that. But if you instead change it to NYN it doesn't like it and will change it to NYM. Strange.

So it's a bit of mystery. Hoping we'll get an answer in this thread

Yes. There is a missing piece that I'm not finding where it actually handles the abbreviations for teams. It's not a straight line.

LansdowneSt · 10-29-2024, 05:25 PM

It might be that to get the initial load to recognize a new format (like when Garlon and I did the mod to add NeL teams) you need to edit the Teams.csv file that is inside the histroical.database.odb. That is, use Dr. Doom's tool, crack it open, make the changes, and then rewrap it. We had no issue getting modified league structures or names in the initial load year that way. We didn't just edit the Teams.csv that sits open and available. If you change it as I described, that (again, I think) would solve the initial load and the going-forward.

You can't change the Giants to NYN because that is tied to the Mets. You can't repeat IDs.

Keep in mind, that lots of files in the historical.database.odb tie to each person's individual stat line. So, if you changed all of the NY1's to NYG's in the Teams file, players that played for the New York Giants may not import directly to their historical teams because of the mismatch. Because the stat lines say "NY1" - if it can't find it in the Teams file (and in thus in the game), I think it will make them a free agent. I think that you'd have to go to both the Batting.csv files, both Pitching.csv files and both Fielding.csv files and find and replace there. Those files are inside the .odb.

NY1 is also likely used by files like the ballpark_eras file to load the parks and may provide the imported ballpark factors to adjust any stat lines.

My point is only that I don't think there is just a cosmetic column that can be edited. It's the actual NY1 and it's in a lot of places tying things together.

I look forward to any reply Matt provides as that'd help modders but that's my concern. To do it, you'd need to get into the .odb, do a lot of edits, maintain that alternative /stats file and be prepared to resave your own .txt files as necessary as patches come through to keep it all synched. Sorry to be a downer. Again, I'd love for Matt to say, "No, it this file XYZ that has the cosmetic abbrv that are shown - but don't touch the NY1 everywhere else because it synchs to that." But if it were that easy, I think you'd know that already.

justtxyank · 10-29-2024, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

It might be that to get the initial load to recognize a new format (like when Garlon and I did the mod to add NeL teams) you need to edit the Teams.csv file that is inside the histroical.database.odb. That is, use Dr. Doom's tool, crack it open, make the changes, and then rewrap it. We had no issue getting modified league structures or names in the initial load year that way. We didn't just edit the Teams.csv that sits open and available. If you change it as I described, that (again, I think) would solve the initial load and the going-forward.

You can't change the Giants to NYN because that is tied to the Mets. You can't repeat IDs.

Keep in mind, that lots of files in the historical.database.odb tie to each person's individual stat line. So, if you changed all of the NY1's to NYG's in the Teams file, players that played for the New York Giants may not import directly to their historical teams because of the mismatch. Because the stat lines say "NY1" - if it can't find it in the Teams file (and in thus in the game), I think it will make them a free agent. I think that you'd have to go to both the Batting.csv files, both Pitching.csv files and both Fielding.csv files and find and replace there. Those files are inside the .odb.

NY1 is also likely used by files like the ballpark_eras file to load the parks and may provide the imported ballpark factors to adjust any stat lines.

My point is only that I don't think there is just a cosmetic column that can be edited. It's the actual NY1 and it's in a lot of places tying things together.

I look forward to any reply Matt provides as that'd help modders but that's my concern. To do it, you'd need to get into the .odb, do a lot of edits, maintain that alternative /stats file and be prepared to resave your own .txt files as necessary as patches come through to keep it all synched. Sorry to be a downer. Again, I'd love for Matt to say, "No, it this file XYZ that has the cosmetic abbrv that are shown - but don't touch the NY1 everywhere else because it synchs to that." But if it were that easy, I think you'd know that already.

So great reply.

I’m already into the point where I’m using Dooms system to make export and then put jt all back together. I just can’t figure out the structure and why some teams seem to use their teamID as an abbreviation and some don’t.

The obvious example is:
Yankees teamID is NYA
Brewers is ML4

In game the Yankees get NYY abbreviation and Brewers get ML4. So somewhere there is something telling the game to use NYY for Yankees.

I checked to see if it was tied to the Brefid, layman etc, but same issues where ML4 appears in a column that also has NYA but the game doesn’t load them that way.

justtxyank · 10-29-2024, 06:04 PM

I THOUGHT looking at the teams file that franchiseID was the static one and teamID was the one that changed and would operate as the cosmetic tag. But it doesn’t seem to work that way as some teams use franchiseID as their tag and some use something else

LansdowneSt · 10-29-2024, 06:10 PM

Go to the folder where you unlocked all the csv's (when Doom's tool unlocked them). Search file contents. Search for NYY. Because all the stat files use NYA. NYY is a pretty unique term.

justtxyank · 10-29-2024, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

Go to the folder where you unlocked all the csv's (when Doom's tool unlocked them). Search file contents. Search for NYY. Because all the stat files use NYA. NYY is a pretty unique term.

It appears only in Teams, TeamFranchises, BattingSPlits, EOSRosters, RecordsSingleGame and SeriesPost.

What's frustrating is I've isolated NYY in Teams to column FranchiseID. In that column, the Brewers are MIL.

In the column where the Brewers are ML4 Yankees are NYA!

So what is making it flip in game? LOL

justtxyank · 10-29-2024, 09:12 PM

I ran an AI audit and it couldn't find a single column in any spreadsheet where NYY and ML4 appear in the same column.

thehef · 10-30-2024, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

My point is only that I don't think there is just a cosmetic column that can be edited. It's the actual NY1 and it's in a lot of places tying things together.

I think you hit on it here. There needs to be a cosmetic column that is simply for holding the abbreviation that displays on leaderboards & elsewhere, and that can be edited. This would be how we do away with the unrealistic-for-display but necessary for ... lots of stuff... abbreviations such as ML4 and KC1...

justtxyank · 10-30-2024, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehef

I think you hit on it here. There needs to be a cosmetic column that is simply for holding the abbreviation that displays on leaderboards & elsewhere, and that can be edited. This would be how we do away with the unrealistic-for-display but necessary for ... lots of stuff... abbreviations such as ML4 and KC1...

1 this feels obvious
2 I think there is but it’s probably in a hard coded area

10-29-2024, 01:10 PM	#1
justtxyank Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 118	Understanding abbreviations structure I'm attempting to determine how the game assigns a team's abbreviation in the stats. I've looked at the updated database and I can't make sense of why one team is listed one way and another is not. In the "teams" database in the stats folder, each team for each year has a teamID, franchID, teamIDBR, teamIDlahman45 and teamIDret. I assumed the game was pulling ONE of these each time. The Brewers are listed as ML4 / MIL / MIL/ MIL/MIL respectively, so I assumed that teamID is where the game determines how it is listed. However, the Yankees are listed as NYA / NYY / NYY / NYA / NYA in those same fields, yet appears as NYY in historical stats and game setup. Does anyone know which ID actually determines how the team is identified? I'm working on an "adjusted" database that listed the historical teams that appear with a number as their correct abbreviations, but short of simply editing every single appearance in each excel file, I can't figure out the way to do it. I'm certainly willing to train a model to just fix each spreadsheet manually, but I'd rather NOT touch the historical stats databases if you just need to fix the correction on one specific sheet.

10-29-2024, 05:25 PM	#5
LansdowneSt Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: From Duxbury, Mass residing Baltimore Posts: 8,229	It might be that to get the initial load to recognize a new format (like when Garlon and I did the mod to add NeL teams) you need to edit the Teams.csv file that is inside the histroical.database.odb. That is, use Dr. Doom's tool, crack it open, make the changes, and then rewrap it. We had no issue getting modified league structures or names in the initial load year that way. We didn't just edit the Teams.csv that sits open and available. If you change it as I described, that (again, I think) would solve the initial load and the going-forward. You can't change the Giants to NYN because that is tied to the Mets. You can't repeat IDs. Keep in mind, that lots of files in the historical.database.odb tie to each person's individual stat line. So, if you changed all of the NY1's to NYG's in the Teams file, players that played for the New York Giants may not import directly to their historical teams because of the mismatch. Because the stat lines say "NY1" - if it can't find it in the Teams file (and in thus in the game), I think it will make them a free agent. I think that you'd have to go to both the Batting.csv files, both Pitching.csv files and both Fielding.csv files and find and replace there. Those files are inside the .odb. NY1 is also likely used by files like the ballpark_eras file to load the parks and may provide the imported ballpark factors to adjust any stat lines. My point is only that I don't think there is just a cosmetic column that can be edited. It's the actual NY1 and it's in a lot of places tying things together. I look forward to any reply Matt provides as that'd help modders but that's my concern. To do it, you'd need to get into the .odb, do a lot of edits, maintain that alternative /stats file and be prepared to resave your own .txt files as necessary as patches come through to keep it all synched. Sorry to be a downer. Again, I'd love for Matt to say, "No, it this file XYZ that has the cosmetic abbrv that are shown - but don't touch the NY1 everywhere else because it synchs to that." But if it were that easy, I think you'd know that already. __________________ Complete Universe Facegen Pack 2.0 (mine included) https://www.mediafire.com/file_premi...k_2.0.zip/file Just my Facegen Pack: https://www.mediafire.com/file_premi..._Pack.zip/file

10-29-2024, 06:10 PM	#8
LansdowneSt Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: From Duxbury, Mass residing Baltimore Posts: 8,229	Go to the folder where you unlocked all the csv's (when Doom's tool unlocked them). Search file contents. Search for NYY. Because all the stat files use NYA. NYY is a pretty unique term. __________________ Complete Universe Facegen Pack 2.0 (mine included) https://www.mediafire.com/file_premi...k_2.0.zip/file Just my Facegen Pack: https://www.mediafire.com/file_premi..._Pack.zip/file

10-29-2024, 01:15 PM	#2
justtxyank Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 118	Another example: The minor league MiLBTeams file has an affiliation column that ties it to a franchise from the database. On that column, it lists the Franchise/AffiliationID as NYA for the Yankees and ML4 for the Brewers, but again, on the actual teams spreadsheet, the franchise id for the Yankees is NYY.

10-29-2024, 02:13 PM	#3
thehef Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,382	I don't have an answer, but I'm a big fan of you asking this because it's a murky area where answers have been hard to come by. A few comments from the perspective of editing these values in the teams.csv file: 1) If you want to edit values in this file & several others, note that when OOTP initially creates your game, its "game creation program" (for lack of a better term) includes all of the structural data for MLB (and minor leagues & teams if you've enabled those) for that initial season; files such as this one and others are not referenced for that initial season, however, they are for all subsequent years. For example, if you modify this file and you start a game with the 1910 season, the 1910 season will not include any of your changes. OOTP will include your changes by referencing the file when it transitions from the 1910 postseason to the 1910-11 offseason (this occurs after the World Series, usually occurs in mid-to-late October). And so your changes will be reflected for the 1911 season. 2) I don't like some of the abbreviations (who ever looked at a sports section and saw that Hank Aaron was on ML1 or some other guy was on KC1?). I like "normal" abbreviations like you would see in a newspaper, although I understand the need for the more cryptic ones under the hood. So with that said... 3) I've done testing and found that if you change NY1 (for the NY Giants) to NYG, OOTP is good with that. But if you instead change it to NYN it doesn't like it and will change it to NYM. Strange. So it's a bit of mystery. Hoping we'll get an answer in this thread

10-29-2024, 06:04 PM	#7
justtxyank Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 118	I THOUGHT looking at the teams file that franchiseID was the static one and teamID was the one that changed and would operate as the cosmetic tag. But it doesn’t seem to work that way as some teams use franchiseID as their tag and some use something else

10-29-2024, 09:12 PM	#10
justtxyank Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 118	I ran an AI audit and it couldn't find a single column in any spreadsheet where NYY and ML4 appear in the same column.