Player's batting order expectation system

[tktkrtktkr]

I think expectations of a middle of the lineup, cleanup hitter are out of touch with modern baseball. It doesn't make sense that having your best hitter at 1st or 2nd may have a negative impact on morale relatively. Whether Ohtani is at 2nd or 3rd, his satisfaction with the role should be at its highest.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=290109

[OutS|der]

Originally Posted by tktkrtktkr

I think expectations of a middle of the lineup, cleanup hitter are out of touch with modern baseball. It doesn't make sense that having your best hitter at 1st or 2nd may have a negative impact on morale relatively. Whether Ohtani is at 2nd or 3rd, his satisfaction with the role should be at its highest.

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=290109

It makes perfect sense in the top of the order gets more at bats. I'd rather have my best hitter getting more at bats then someone else

[Brad K]

Maybe the OOTP version of the player doesn't believe in modern baseball.

[Pelican]

Pretty sure a guy like Kyle Schwarber would rather hit cleanup behind Harper, where he could get 140 RBI in a season, rather than being wasted in the leadoff position. Not that he would complain. The modern game has way too much emphasis on solo home runs. I'm glad the OOTP player preferences are more traditional. I hope they stay that way (although an argument could be made that they should adjust to the era).

[OutS|der]

Originally Posted by Pelican

Pretty sure a guy like Kyle Schwarber would rather hit cleanup behind Harper, where he could get 140 RBI in a season, rather than being wasted in the leadoff position. Not that he would complain. The modern game has way too much emphasis on solo home runs. I'm glad the OOTP player preferences are more traditional. I hope they stay that way (although an argument could be made that they should adjust to the era).

How is he being wasted in leadoff? Unless he gets paid more for RBI's I highly doubts he cares if he gets 140 or 120 of them.
RBI's aren't an indicator of how he's performing so I'd expect more modern players not to overly care about the stat.

[md40022]

Originally Posted by Pelican

Pretty sure a guy like Kyle Schwarber would rather hit cleanup behind Harper, where he could get 140 RBI in a season, rather than being wasted in the leadoff position. Not that he would complain. The modern game has way too much emphasis on solo home runs. I'm glad the OOTP player preferences are more traditional. I hope they stay that way (although an argument could be made that they should adjust to the era).

This is going back several years but when the Cubs were first trying to lead Schwarber off he was very vocal about loving the idea of it. I personally hated it, but at the time he was very much into the idea. I know the point you're making. The traditional home run hitter would normally be in the middle of the lineup driving in runs. That's always been my belief too. I still lean towards old school with my lineups. We forget though, these players are half our age. They have the new-school mindset because they are new-school people lol. Yeah, Earl Weaver wanted those little MF'in bleepin' bleepers (Earl's words, not mine) to get on base and then the big strong MF'er knocks one out of the park, but these players today don't even know who Earl Weaver is haha.

Okay, old man rant over.

[Brad K]

Weaver was right when he said the way to win games was pitching, defense, and three run homers, except today there is usually one or none on when a HR is hit.

[OutS|der]

The traditional mindset was mostly due to having limited stats to showcase performance. The stat of .OBS was only 4 years old by the time Weaver coached his last game.
We now know that RBI is not a useful measure of offensive performance. It may be useful as a way to explain the events of a game, but a player having 100 RBI and another having 75 RBI tells you almost nothing about those two players and the seasons they had.

[Brad K]

Weaver was right about what it took to win games before modern statistics proved him right. He already knew bunts and stolen bases didn't.

[Pelican]

Well, Schwarber is having a great year; but the fact is all those leadoff HRs only score a single run. Plus, he is slow as molasses on the base paths, so less of a threat to advance and score after one of his many walks. He make the Phillies a one-base-at-a-time offense, even though Harper and Trea Turner are quick. The Phillies have fast players with power (Turner) who could open things up from the leadoff spot. Whether the metric is the discredited RBI or something else, the Phils would score more runs if Schwarber batted third, or fourth, or fifth, instead of leadoff. Leading the league in solo home runs is not the goal. The Earl of Baltimore favored the three-run shot.

[Vezna31]

Originally Posted by Pelican

Well, Schwarber is having a great year; but the fact is all those leadoff HRs only score a single run. Plus, he is slow as molasses on the base paths, so less of a threat to advance and score after one of his many walks. He make the Phillies a one-base-at-a-time offense, even though Harper and Trea Turner are quick. The Phillies have fast players with power (Turner) who could open things up from the leadoff spot. Whether the metric is the discredited RBI or something else, the Phils would score more runs if Schwarber batted third, or fourth, or fifth, instead of leadoff. Leading the league in solo home runs is not the goal. The Earl of Baltimore favored the three-run shot.

Yeah, I agree. I have always preferred high OBP guys at the top, the best hitter at #3, and the biggest power guy at #4. Being from Philly and seeing the traditional lead-off men getting on base like Lonnie Smith, Bobby Dernier, Lenny Dykstra, and Jimmy Rollins and creating a ruckus to distract the pitchers for the power hitters to take advantage seems like a much better strategy to score more runs than just the occasional dinger.