Combinator cap tournaments can't be more than one per category

[jackalblackhole]

Hello,

I wrote this as a reply in another thread, and I apologize to duplicate but due to its importance I will make another thread in case the other thread is not read by any developers/managers.

Here is my feedback as a player deeply invested in this game in terms of time and money. Please, please don't have more than one daily tournament per category with a combinator cap (I've seen community suggestions with more than that, but you say about 1 per category in your announcement, so I really hope that bears the truth), and please don't make quick tournaments capped. For anyone who has invested heavily in combinators assuming they would actually remain deeply valuable, it would be a deep blow and would very unfairly invalidate their investments. I would not have paid hundreds of thousands of PP for various combinators if I had any advance knowledge of more than, say, one capped tournament per category, or (perhaps worse) quick tournaments having any combinator caps. Such a thing would be better reserved for next year when players have not already heavily invested in a certain way of the game functioning.

In addition, the rewards for capless tournaments should be the "good" (i.e. TE rewards) ones, as otherwise no one will enter them except the 5 teams in each format that have invested millions into combinators (that I really hope will not be suddenly worth half that). If half the tournaments are capped, then a heavily invested team user may be forced to wake up at some odd hour just to enter the right tournament to get now-smaller returns on their investment (or at least try to recoup the costs of what now seem like bad purchases).

Thank you for listening and have a great day.

[LeeD]

One of the whales has spoken. Your input is appreciated, and I agree that your massive investment should not be invalidated (despite my status as an FTP player who will never have the wherewithal to assemble a tournament team full of level 5 Combinators).

This one is on the devs. It's their mistake (or their deliberate and knowing choice), and I doubt that they will seriously wind this thing back during PT25 because you, and others like you, have made major investments. However...

the least they can do for the rest of us is to allow either Combinator quick-sells or massively reduce the minimum sell price across all card levels. I'm so sick of looking at my 90 George Kell Combinator on sale for 50,001 PP with no takers!

[jackalblackhole]

I agree, combinators need to be allowed to be quicksold. Really can't see why they can't be other than coding troubles? But yeah just feels very unfair to get the rug pulled out suddenly. I agree the system is frustrating as it is for those without as many combinators, but if they do too much with caps then they really need to, say, half refund combinator purchases that were over 50k or something. No way I would have bought a number of them if I knew half the dailies or something would only let me use 5 or what have you.

[Tinkerman]

People need to try to consider the Greater Good. Would the devs be making these adjustments if they didn't feel it was critically important?

IMO, it's essential that iron and bronze quicks are the entry level for new players. A very competitive environment, but also fair, and therefore a great way to learn the ropes. Combinators have ironically made iron and bronze probably the toughest levels to play at. Put your personal interest aside and think of the thousands of others who need to feel that the entry level is actually accessible.

I've made a very small commitment to combinators, which I believe has paid dividends. I'd guess that the same is true, on a sliding scale, for anyone that has invested in good combinators. Therefore, people have already been compensated for their outlay - unless they invested badly.

[jackalblackhole]

People invested in combinators based on expected future value, and that did not take into account combinator caps which went as far as being more than, say, 25% of the dailies in a category or in the quicks. It makes a lot of the combinators basically worthless. It is a huge unilateral change to the market and invalidates many investments that many people made only very recently and cannot have had time to recoup the investment. It is the definition of unfair to suddenly pull the rug out on those investments, they would need to issue refunds to combinator purchases in some sort of reasonable way to make up for it.

[jackalblackhole]

Moreover, there's no reason iron and bronze need to be the entry level tournaments. Silver and gold are currently not that hard to compete in, and there's no reason newer players can't figure out to enter those instead of iron and bronze. Moreover, most of the iron quicks don't have a big combinator team in them, as they fire so quickly. The quicks really don't have a problem needing to be fixed, and if there was such an issue, the solution is not to screw over players who have invested heavily in combinators at that specific level and telling them the hundreds of thousands or even millions of PP they spent are now a dead investment there without giving that PP back.

[DotDash]

So basically you're afraid that less financially invested players will have a space to be competetive in, which will mean fewer weaker teams for whales like you to beat up on in uncapped tournaments?

Sums up everything wrong with this 'game', doesn't it.

Also, if you find yourself using the word 'investment' a whole bunch of times in a discussion about a completely transient (yearly reset) video game, maybe it's not the most healthy pastime.
I apply the same reasoning to myself by the way, except my investment is time, not time and money.

[Tinkerman]

Originally Posted by jackalblackhole

Moreover, there's no reason iron and bronze need to be the entry level tournaments.

Apart from some very basic logic.

Originally Posted by jackalblackhole

...the solution is not to screw over players who have invested heavily in combinators at that specific level and telling them the hundreds of thousands or even millions of PP they spent are now a dead investment there without giving that PP back.

People who bought Bieber at full whack have lost roughly 1 million on their investment at this point. Should they get a refund for that? I mean, some of them may have bought him under the false assumption that he would maintain his value forever.

[jackalblackhole]

People bought Bieber knowing he would undergo a normal power creep induced pricing curve. No one knew that combinators might be thoroughly devalued randomly by structural changes in the game systems. Apples to oranges.

And you say "logic", but rather you're applying aesthetics you have that don't necessarily have external validity. There's no inherent reason bronze or iron need to be entry level instead of silver or gold, regardless of the way it used to be. They certainly don't need to be made entry level all of a sudden, screwing over teams that invested heavily there while not screwing over teams that happened to invest in gold instead.

[Tinkerman]

Originally Posted by jackalblackhole

No one knew that combinators might be thoroughly devalued randomly by structural changes in the game systems.

That's not gonna happen though, and it's easy to understand that it's not in the game's interest to hurt the players who've bought into combinators. I'm not calling for any changes to quicks that would screw anyone over. But the game can easily be enriched by some additional formats. I'm all for everyone having as much fun as they can.

As an example, a combinator-free iron tourney with the chemistry still on could be really fun to tinker with, without meta combis looming large.

[HRBaker]

Combinators are a "good idea" but they were implemented incorrectly and without fleshing out all the consequences. Plain and simple.